From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 20:35:51 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CACu7-0003l3-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:35:51 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:59007) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CACu3-0001Hh-32 (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:35:47 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CACu3-0007Ml-20 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:35:47 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.130.183] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Hello? Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 20:36:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 20:35:46 +0100 Hello ... hello ... hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me ... is there anybody home? From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 20:46:50 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAD4k-00049X-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:46:50 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:59883) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAD4i-0002R0-Ba (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:46:48 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAD4i-0000Gp-Ah for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:46:48 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.130.183] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] I create Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 20:47:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 20:46:48 +0100 Right. Since the list seems to be working, I hereby declare that I=20 acknowledge the authority of the rules of the game to define the behaviour= =20 of the game, and therefore that the game exists. The website for the game, at present, is: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/nomic This mailing list will be initially= =20 used for communication, and messages can be broadcast to the other players= =20 by emailing them to: =09nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org The rules, at present, are as follows: 1. Existence of the Game These rules describe the behaviour of a Nomic=20 game. The game and all entities existing within it have a persistent state= =20 which can only change as described by the rules. 2. Mutability of the Rules The rules may change in the course of the game= =20 as specified here. A change to the rules must and may only take place when= =20 a Consensus of Opinion, as defined by the rules, exists with respect to=20 that particular change to the rules. 3. List of Voters The game shall contain a list of names which refer to=20 specific entities in the real (extranomic) world. At the start of the game,= =20 this list shall contain the names of Adam Biltcliffe, Carrie Oliver, David= =20 Birch, John-Joseph Wilks, Jonathan Amery, Martin O'Leary, Martin Lester,=20 Michael Cripps and Stuart Moore. 4. Consensus of Opinion A Consensus of Opinion on a particular change to=20 the rules exists when one entity named on the List of Voters proposes the= =20 change to all other entities named on the List of Voters and obtains=20 unambiguous consent to that change from each such entity. Let the game begin! From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 20:57:15 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADEp-0004ah-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:57:15 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.156]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CADEj-0004sq-S3 (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:57:11 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] I create From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095882962.3599.3.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 20:58:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:56:03 +0100 On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 20:46, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > 4. Consensus of Opinion A Consensus of Opinion on a particular change to > the rules exists when one entity named on the List of Voters proposes the > change to all other entities named on the List of Voters and obtains > unambiguous consent to that change from each such entity. > Can I propose that the phrase "change to the rules" be stripped of the unnecessarily specific "to the rules"? This would allow us to later use the same mechanism to deal with other changes which might arise. Note that this still does not allow such other changes to occur, as no provision is made for them under Mutability Of The Rules. Martin From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed Sep 22 21:01:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADId-0004m3-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:01:11 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:35700) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CADIY-000584-VV (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:01:06 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CADIW-0005Ws-00; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:01:04 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADEW-00076W-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:56:56 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] I create In-Reply-To: Message from Adam Biltcliffe of "22 Sep 2004 20:46:48 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 21:02:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:56:56 +0100 > Let the game begin! I award myself a win condition. (just in case). J. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 21:05:49 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADN7-00057Q-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:05:49 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:33766) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CADN3-0006bP-6T (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:05:45 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CADN3-0002Vn-5V for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:05:45 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] I create X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.130.183] In-Reply-To: <1095882962.3599.3.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095882962.3599.3.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 21:06:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 21:05:45 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 20:46, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > > 4. Consensus of Opinion A Consensus of Opinion on a particular change > > to the rules exists when one entity named on the List of Voters > > proposes the change to all other entities named on the List of Voters > > and obtains unambiguous consent to that change from each such entity. > > Can I propose that the phrase "change to the rules" be stripped of the > unnecessarily specific "to the rules"? This would allow us to later use > the same mechanism to deal with other changes which might arise. Note > that this still does not allow such other changes to occur, as no > provision is made for them under Mutability Of The Rules. In that case I'd suggest changing it to the even more general phrasing 'a Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when ...' That way, we can use it just as effectively to agree that things shouldn't be changed, or anything else we fancy. Do you want this now, or shall we leave it until we've decided on any other changes that should be made to this rule (eg. adding passive consent)? I also note for the convenience of players and others that there is now a public archive of this mailing list at: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/pipermail/nomic-talk/ adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 21:08:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADPM-0005EJ-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:08:08 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:33949) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CADPI-00076I-Mm (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:08:04 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CADPI-0002mz-Lm for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:08:04 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] I create X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.130.183] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 21:09:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 21:08:04 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > Let the game begin! > > I award myself a win condition. > > (just in case). Excellent! What did you win? (Not this game, presumably, since by Rule 1 you can't change the state of the game except as dictated by the rules ...) Also, is Hermes webmail mangling my email? adam From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed Sep 22 21:08:12 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADPQ-0005ET-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:08:12 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:36160) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CADPJ-0006aa-F8 (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:08:05 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CADPI-0006N1-00; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:08:04 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADP3-0007Eu-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:07:49 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Arbitration Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 21:09:04 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:07:49 +0100 We need a system for resolving disputes about the state of play. What sort of thing would people like? Arbitrary dictatorship; randomly selected judge; algorithmically selected judge; referendum...? J. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed Sep 22 21:16:15 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADXD-0005Xw-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:16:15 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:36715) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CADXA-00008l-6V (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:16:12 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CADX6-0007VT-00; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:16:08 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADT2-0007Ig-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:11:56 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 21:17:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:11:56 +0100 I propose the following rule: 5. There shall be a list of {real name, pseudonym} pairs; with one entry for each player in the game. Initially the pseudonym entry in each pair will be unset. At any time a player with an unset pseudonym may set their pseudonym to any legal string, provided that that string isn't lexically equivilent to any game entity, player's real name or player's pseudonym. If a player has a non-null pseudonym set then their pseudonym and their real name may be used interchangably within the context of the game. From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 21:19:32 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADaO-0005eR-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:19:32 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.155]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CADaK-0000GZ-Ss (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:19:30 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] I create From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: <1095882962.3599.3.camel@mewo2> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095884299.3599.7.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 21:20:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:18:19 +0100 On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 21:05, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > In that case I'd suggest changing it to the even more general phrasing 'a > Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when ...' That way, we > can use it just as effectively to agree that things shouldn't be changed, > or anything else we fancy. Do you want this now, or shall we leave it until > we've decided on any other changes that should be made to this rule (eg. > adding passive consent)? How do you suggest altering the phrase "proposes the change"? "proposes the issue" just sounds odd. And yes, we should probably wait until we've decided on other changes; I just wanted to get the ball rolling. Martin From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 21:21:27 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADcF-0005jn-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:21:27 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.153]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CADc9-00003a-2Y (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:21:22 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095884413.3599.9.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 21:22:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:20:13 +0100 On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 21:11, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I propose the following rule: > > 5. There shall be a list of {real name, pseudonym} pairs; with one > entry for each player in the game. Initially the pseudonym entry in > each pair will be unset. At any time a player with an unset pseudonym > may set their pseudonym to any legal string, provided that that string > isn't lexically equivilent to any game entity, player's real name or > player's pseudonym. If a player has a non-null pseudonym set then > their pseudonym and their real name may be used interchangably within > the context of the game. > Give it a name so I don't have to remember what rule number it is and spell check it and I think that's fine. Martin From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 21:23:41 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADeP-0005pp-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:23:41 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:35119) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CADeM-0003OE-1L (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:23:38 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CADeM-0004gE-0L for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:23:38 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Arbitration X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.130.183] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 21:24:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 21:23:37 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > We need a system for resolving disputes about the state of play. I concur. > What sort of thing would people like? Arbitrary dictatorship; > randomly selected judge; algorithmically selected judge; > referendum...? I'm not particularly in favour of arbitrary dictatorship; Imperial Nomic looks quite fun, but it isn't the game I was intending to play. I don't particularly fancy doing everything by referendum; if we have to vote on resolution of ambiguities it feels no different from passing a new rule to resolve the issue, plus there's the issue of how the issue is broken down into possible standpoints for people to vote on. I'm in favour of disputes being resolved by a judge, with the option to appeal if the judge gets it patently wrong. I'd suggest any player can put him/her/it/eirself forward as a potential judge, and that someone have the duty of selecting a judge by whatever means from the pool of available judges. Alternatively, we could elect someone as arbitrator for all disputes on a weekly or fortnightly basis (or let it be determined by something else, such as score), with secondary and tertiary judges to handle appeals or rule on issues raised by the primary judge. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 21:29:51 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADkN-00065E-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:29:51 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:35601) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CADkK-0004XB-Hj (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:29:48 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CADkK-0005Q1-Gp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:29:48 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.130.183] In-Reply-To: <1095884413.3599.9.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095884413.3599.9.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 21:30:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 21:29:48 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 21:11, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > I propose the following rule: > > > > 5. There shall be a list of {real name, pseudonym} pairs; with one > > entry for each player in the game. Initially the pseudonym entry in > > each pair will be unset. At any time a player with an unset pseudonym > > may set their pseudonym to any legal string, provided that that string > > isn't lexically equivilent to any game entity, player's real name or > > player's pseudonym. If a player has a non-null pseudonym set then > > their pseudonym and their real name may be used interchangably within > > the context of the game. > > Give it a name so I don't have to remember what rule number it is and > spell check it and I think that's fine. Rules probably ought to have names, but I'm happy for this one to go in as is and be assigned a name later if/when it becomes official that rules must have names. I suggest also that at some point there should be a rule allowing for the correction of unambiguous typos or spelling mistakes in the rules. I consent (unambiguously, I hope!) for this change to take place, both in the form it is presented here and in any other form which has an identical effect on the game but differs in nomenclature or spelling. adam From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 21:37:06 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CADrO-0006Qj-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:37:06 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.155]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CADrJ-0003Om-OU (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:37:03 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: <1095884413.3599.9.camel@mewo2> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095885355.3599.14.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 21:38:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:35:55 +0100 On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 21:29, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > Rules probably ought to have names, but I'm happy for this one to go in as > is and be assigned a name later if/when it becomes official that rules must > have names. I suggest also that at some point there should be a rule > allowing for the correction of unambiguous typos or spelling mistakes in > the rules. > Sure. I propose the following rule: The Rule Of Names Each rule shall have a name, consisting of a string of alphanumeric characters, spaces and punctuation. These names shall be unique, up to case changes and changes to spacing. All rules, when referring to other rules, must use the name of the rule in question. Martin From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 21:55:23 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAE95-0007Ak-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:55:23 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:37783) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAE90-0006YC-4c (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:55:18 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAE90-0008MW-3g for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:55:18 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.130.183] In-Reply-To: <1095885355.3599.14.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095885355.3599.14.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 21:56:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 21:55:18 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > I propose the following rule: > > The Rule Of Names > > Each rule shall have a name, consisting of a string of alphanumeric > characters, spaces and punctuation. These names shall be unique, up to > case changes and changes to spacing. All rules, when referring to other > rules, must use the name of the rule in question. I counter-propose the following rule: The Rule of Structured Names Each rule shall have a name that is a string of the form 'Rule X, Y'. In this string, X stands for an integer which is assigned to the rule when it is added to the ruleset and is one greater than the largest integer currently assigned to any rule. Y shall stand for any string of alphanumeric characters, spaces and punctuation which is distinct up to changes to case and spacing from the Y of any other rule in the rules. X is assigned only when a rule is added to the rules; Y must be specified along with the text of the rule when it is first proposed. All rules, when referring to other rules, must use the full name of the rule in question. As part of the same proposal, I suggest that the names of all existing rules be modified so as to bring them into line with the Rule of Structured Names (becoming Rule 1, Existence of the Game and so forth). Sorry, but I feel it does help to add a sense of continuity to the ruleset if rules are numbered sequentially. We can arrange that all the rules are indexed alphabetically by name on the website, if you like. adam From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 21:59:20 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAECu-0007NH-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:59:20 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.155]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAECp-0007Of-0b (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:59:16 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: <1095885355.3599.14.camel@mewo2> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095886688.3599.18.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 22:00:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:58:08 +0100 On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 21:55, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > X is assigned only when a rule is added to the rules; Y must be specified > along with the text of the rule when it is first proposed. All rules, when > referring to other rules, must use the full name of the rule in question. This becomes a problem when one wishes to propose a set of rules which refer to each other. Unless you can guess precisely which numbers these rules are going to be assigned, you can't know their full name and thus can't refer to them. Martin From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 22:05:31 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAEIt-0007jH-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:05:31 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:38642) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEIr-0002iX-HW (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:05:29 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEIq-00014o-Tf for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:05:29 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: <1095886688.3599.18.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095886688.3599.18.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 22:06:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 22:05:28 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 21:55, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > X is assigned only when a rule is added to the rules; Y must be > > specified along with the text of the rule when it is first proposed. > > All rules, when referring to other rules, must use the full name of the > > rule in question. > > This becomes a problem when one wishes to propose a set of rules which > refer to each other. Unless you can guess precisely which numbers these > rules are going to be assigned, you can't know their full name and thus > can't refer to them. Bah, I deleted the clause from that paragraph specifying that rules can legally be referred to by name only until they are added to the rules on the grounds that the rules wouldn't refer to them until that happened. Valid point, although I'm not sure that there are that many circumstances where rules need to refer to simultaneously-proposed rules explicitly; it seems it'd come up more often when you need to describe an exception to some rule added long ago. Note that I haven't objected to The Rule of Names yet (not that any such objection would have actual force in the game anyway); if you really want to try a game in which rules are referenced exclusively by name then I could probably be persuaded to give it a go. adam From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed Sep 22 22:08:13 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAELV-0007oy-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:08:13 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:40058) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAELQ-0003d9-Ad (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:08:08 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAELM-0005cH-00; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:08:04 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAEL5-0007gt-00; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:07:47 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org cc: jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal In-Reply-To: Message from Adam Biltcliffe of "22 Sep 2004 21:55:18 BST." References: <1095885355.3599.14.camel@mewo2> From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 22:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:07:47 +0100 > On Sep 22 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > > > I propose the following rule: > > > > The Rule Of Names > > > > Each rule shall have a name, consisting of a string of alphanumeric > > characters, spaces and punctuation. These names shall be unique, up to > > case changes and changes to spacing. All rules, when referring to other > > rules, must use the name of the rule in question. > > I counter-propose the following rule: > > The Rule of Structured Names > > Each rule shall have a name that is a string of the form 'Rule X, Y'. In > this string, X stands for an integer which is assigned to the rule when it > is added to the ruleset and is one greater than the largest integer > currently assigned to any rule. Y shall stand for any string of > alphanumeric characters, spaces and punctuation which is distinct up to > changes to case and spacing from the Y of any other rule in the rules. > > X is assigned only when a rule is added to the rules; Y must be specified > along with the text of the rule when it is first proposed. All rules, when > referring to other rules, must use the full name of the rule in question. > > As part of the same proposal, I suggest that the names of all existing > rules be modified so as to bring them into line with the Rule of Structured > Names (becoming Rule 1, Existence of the Game and so forth). I propose the following modification to the above proposal: Add, after the words "rule in question", the following text: ,excepting the following case: While a rule is still a proposal, but has not yet been added to the rules it is permissable to then refer to it only as Y. When a rule has an X assigned the game state is modified such that all existing references to the rule have their references updated to represent the full name of the rule. In the event that a rule has either part X or part Y changed then the game state is modified such that all existing references to the rule are updated to the new form. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed Sep 22 22:17:51 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAEUp-00089f-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:17:51 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:40642) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEUm-0004uF-L7 (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:17:48 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAEUf-0007cv-00; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:17:41 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAETz-0007pN-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:16:59 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Consent Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 22:18:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:16:59 +0100 For the avoidance of doubt; I consent to my two rules proposals (5 and 8); and to any one of the proposed names rules; but not more than one at once. J. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed Sep 22 22:18:39 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAEVb-0008BE-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:18:39 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:40711) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEVX-0002VT-9X (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:18:35 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAEVS-0007mc-00; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:18:30 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAEVL-0007rZ-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:18:23 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal 8 Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 22:19:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:18:23 +0100 I propose the following: 8, The rule of assumed consent. It shall be assumed that a player consents to a game action if any one of the following has occured: a) They are currently "on holiday" if that term has any meaning in the game. b) They have made a game action at least one game day ago, and since the action under consideration. c) They made the game action itself. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 22:24:00 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAEal-0008LS-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:23:59 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:40343) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEah-0003Yl-PV (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:23:55 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEah-0003Ew-OW for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:23:55 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Consent X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 22:24:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 22:23:55 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > For the avoidance of doubt; I consent to my two rules proposals (5 > and 8); and to any one of the proposed names rules; but not more than > one at once. Just for the record, as I interpret what's currently known as Rule 4, you're not obliged to express consent to your own proposals. Also, I think giving rules numbers while they're still hypothetical is going to lead inevitably to confusion. adam From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 22:24:16 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAEb1-0008NA-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:24:15 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEau-0006BB-SL (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:24:10 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal 8 From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095888181.3599.22.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 22:25:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:23:01 +0100 On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 22:18, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I propose the following: > > 8, The rule of assumed consent. > > It shall be assumed that a player consents to a game action if any > one of the following has occured: > > a) They are currently "on holiday" if that term has any meaning in > the game. > b) They have made a game action at least one game day ago, and since > the action under consideration. > c) They made the game action itself. > I don't like this. For starters, we haven't defined the term "game action". Secondly, condition b) is confusingly worded. I would prefer something simpler like: b) At least 48 hours have passed since the game action was put under consideration. Martin From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 22:27:19 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAEdz-0008WC-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:27:19 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.154]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEdv-0007Gm-2d (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:27:16 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal 8 From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: <1095888181.3599.22.camel@mewo2> References: <1095888181.3599.22.camel@mewo2> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095888368.3599.24.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 22:28:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:26:08 +0100 On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 22:23, Martin O'Leary wrote: > b) At least 48 hours have passed since the game action was put under > consideration. Er, add "and they have not expressed a view on the matter" to that. Martin From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 22:32:48 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAEjI-0000Ek-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:32:48 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:41063) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEjG-00051A-Uj (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:32:47 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEjG-0004LN-Rs for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:32:46 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal 8 X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 22:33:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 22:32:46 +0100 I propose that point "b" below be reworded "they have made no game actions for at least 24 hours since the action under consideration." rather than the initial wording, as it is less ambiguous. I consent fully to Jon's proposal for pseudonyms, and propose that it me named "the rule of handles" or "the rule of a monarch deposed two days after coronation." whichever you prefer. As to the argument about the naming rules rule, I would like them to have some form of numbering, as this way, when there are many many rules, it'll be easy to find rules by number - and am fairly confident that should rules need to refer to other rules, they can be simultaneously introduced. However, I consent to whatever Adam and Martin agree on, so long as, again, the final result has no different affect on the gameplay than either of the current propositions. On Sep 22 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I propose the following: > > 8, The rule of assumed consent. > > It shall be assumed that a player consents to a game action if any > one of the following has occured: > > a) They are currently "on holiday" if that term has any meaning in > the game. > b) They have made a game action at least one game day ago, and since > the action under consideration. > c) They made the game action itself. > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 22:33:48 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAEkG-0000IA-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:33:48 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:41177) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEkE-0007tv-RJ (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:33:46 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEkE-0004Ry-QB for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:33:46 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal 8 X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 22:34:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 22:33:46 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I propose the following: > > 8, The rule of assumed consent. > > It shall be assumed that a player consents to a game action if any > one of the following has occured: > > a) They are currently "on holiday" if that term has any meaning in > the game. > b) They have made a game action at least one game day ago, and since > the action under consideration. > c) They made the game action itself. I have several objections: Firstly, this doesn't address the primary need for a rule of assumed consent (the case of a player who does nothing whatsoever) unless we add a rule which enables the other players to forcibly declare someone to be "on holiday". Secondly, the terms "player" and "game action" currently have no meaning. In the case of "player", this is probably as simple as changing it to "member of the List of Voters", but as to what constitutes a game action, I don't think that's currently well-defined at all. The only interpretation of your proposal which makes sense is that a game action is an action taken by a player intended to have an effect on the game, ie. one which takes place *outside* the game and therefore probably shouldn't be referred to as a 'game action'. There's also an implicit assumption that all game actions require consent, which I don't think is likely to be true in any definition. I'd prefer to see any rule aimed at adding passive consent do it either by altering Rule 4 to redefine the means of forming a Consensus of Opinion, or at least by being more explicit about what it actually applies to. The mechanic of "you lose your right to object if you do something else in the meantime" is an interesting one, since it encourages people to be prompt in their response to proposals. It might be useful, but I can potentially see it having the reverse effect if people want to discuss a proposal before voting on it and so are obliged to delay any other substantive actions so as not to lose their right to vote. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 22:39:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAEpQ-0000dN-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:39:08 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:41567) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEpN-0006Pf-B4 (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:39:05 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAEpN-00050O-3n for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:39:05 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal 8 X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: <1095888181.3599.22.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095888181.3599.22.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 22:40:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 22:39:05 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 22:18, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > > b) They have made a game action at least one game day ago, and since > > the action under consideration. > I would prefer something simpler like: > > b) At least 48 hours have passed since the game action was put under > consideration. I note that these clauses, even with Martin's subsequent amendment, have entirely different meanings. adam From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed Sep 22 22:51:50 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAF1i-00015w-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:51:50 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:42743) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAF1e-0003aB-F6 (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:51:46 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAF1d-0004cY-00; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:51:45 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAEzu-0008CI-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:49:58 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposals Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 22:52:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:49:58 +0100 --- Remove all text after the word 'world.' from rule 3. --- --- The Rule of Autoadoption Any player may join the game providing that the following events have happened: 1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). 2) They are not already in the List of Voters. 3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. c) They wish to join the game. Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game. Their consent is not needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration at the time of their joining the game. --- From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed Sep 22 23:01:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFAi-0001Nr-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:01:08 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:43260) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFAe-0001Fg-TD (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:01:04 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAFAd-0006tO-00; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:01:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAF9j-0008HV-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:00:07 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:02:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:00:06 +0100 Create the Definitions Dictionary, with the following content --- Dictionary, A list of {term, meaning} pairs. --- Create a rule, named 'Lexicography' with the following text --- There shall be a dictionary, called the Definitions Dictionary, which shall be kept up-to-date with all game terms. The definitions given in the definitions dictionary superceed the usual english meaning of terms; but are overriden by explicit rules wording. --- From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:02:25 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFBx-0001WM-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:02:25 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:43618) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFBt-0001Fs-SG (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:02:21 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFBt-0007f8-Qz for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:02:21 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:03:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 23:02:21 +0100 Is this one proposal, or two? On Sep 22 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > --- > Remove all text after the word 'world.' from rule 3. > --- Aye, since the List of Voters now exists and the clause specifying its initial contents is redundant. > --- > The Rule of Autoadoption > > Any player may join the game providing that the following events have > happened: > > 1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). > 2) They are not already in the List of Voters. > 3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: > a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. > b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. > c) They wish to join the game. > > Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of > Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game. Their consent is not > needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration > at the time of their joining the game. > --- This looks good to me, with the following changes: * Clarify what is meant by 'player' (eg. 'any real-world sentient entity may join the game ...') * Replace 'events have happened' with 'conditions are satisfied' (since 2 is not a condition) I also note that: Condition 1 should be eventually removed, and a rule should be added declaring that posting something to the mailing list is considered sufficient to make all other players aware of it. That way, people can play without being on the list if they really want to, but it's their own problem if they don't know what the hell is going on. Also, it seems to me that the last sentence does not conflict with my interpretation of Rule 4. This is good, since there is no way for one rule to override another and if it did the set of rules would become inconsistent ... we need to watch out for this. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:04:49 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFEH-0001b7-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:04:49 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:43778) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFE9-0002PF-NA (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:04:41 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFE9-0007tx-Lz for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:04:41 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:05:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 23:04:41 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Create the Definitions Dictionary, with the following content > --- > Dictionary, A list of {term, meaning} pairs. > --- > > Create a rule, named 'Lexicography' with the following text > --- > There shall be a dictionary, called the Definitions Dictionary, which > shall be kept up-to-date with all game terms. The definitions given > in the definitions dictionary superceed the usual english meaning of > terms; but are overriden by explicit rules wording. > --- Sure, except you haven't specified how or by whom the Dictionary is kept up-to-date. Are game terms given definitions in the Dictionary automatically as soon as they acquire meaning in the game? If so, how are we supposed to know what those definitions are? If it's the responsibility of someone to add definitions to the dictionary, who? What happens if they don't? adam From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:04:52 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFEK-0001bG-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:04:52 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:43780) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFEH-0004sZ-SW (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:04:49 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFEH-0007uc-Ri for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:04:49 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:05:03 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 23:04:49 +0100 After much (okay, three seconds) thought, I have decided to re-propose the absenteeism rule as follows. (insert name or number here when the rule naming rule is sorted out.): 1. A voter is deemed to have consented to a proposal if they have not responded to said proposal for 24 hours since that proposal was made. 2.Responding to a proposal exempts a voter from this rule for that proposal. 3. A player is always assumed to have made a consenting vote for their own proposals. -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:07:21 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFGj-0001go-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:07:21 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:38753) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFGe-0005KD-TY (return-path stjm2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:07:16 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAFGb-00043b-9H for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:07:13 +0000 Message-ID: <4151F792.7010003@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org References: <1095888181.3599.22.camel@mewo2> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Arbitration Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:08:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:07:14 +0100 Proposal: The Rule of Dispute Resolution If a member of the list of voters ("the disputer") disagrees with another member ("the disputee") on their interpretation of the current game state, the disputer may state publically that they dispute the game state, and explain what they believe the game state should be. All members of the list of voters may then vote. The time at which all members have been informed of the dispute is the "Start of the voting period" During the voting period, additional interpretations of the game state may be suggested and voted on as with the original interpretations. If within one week of the start of the voting period, one specific interpretation of the game state has votes from at least two thirds of the members of the list of voters, then that interpretation is accepted. Votes may be changed or withdrawn within the voting period. If one week after the start of the voting period this has not occurred, then "the disputer" and "the disputee" must select a member of the list of voters randomly, by drawing names from a hat or other process agreed between them. This member will rule on the current game state, and their decision cannot be disputed. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed Sep 22 23:08:07 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFHT-0001iR-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:08:07 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:43579) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFHP-0006YJ-Q3 (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:08:03 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAFHP-0007qg-00; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:08:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFG0-0008MS-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:06:36 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals In-Reply-To: Your message of "22 Sep 2004 23:02:21 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:06:36 +0100 > Is this one proposal, or two? Two. > On Sep 22 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > > --- > > Remove all text after the word 'world.' from rule 3. > > --- > > Aye, since the List of Voters now exists and the clause specifying its > initial contents is redundant. > Edited version: --- The Rule of Autoadoption Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: 1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). 2) They are not already in the List of Voters. 3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. c) They wish to join the game. Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game. Their consent is not needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration at the time of their joining the game. J. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed Sep 22 23:08:09 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFHV-0001iZ-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:08:09 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:43592) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFHT-0002G6-5p (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:08:07 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAFHS-0007qg-00; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:08:06 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFCu-0008Kq-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:03:24 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:09:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:03:24 +0100 Create a rule, named 'Plausible Deniability', with the following text: --- Any person who has made a rules proposal may withdraw that proposal at any time. Once a proposal has been withdrawn it may not take effect. --- From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:12:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFLO-0001th-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:12:10 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:44233) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFLM-0006PG-Ih (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:12:08 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFLM-0000B9-Hf for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:12:08 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:13:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 23:12:08 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, David (Birch) wrote: > After much (okay, three seconds) thought, I have decided to re-propose > the absenteeism rule as follows. > > (insert name or number here when the rule naming rule is sorted out.): > 1. A voter is deemed to have consented to a proposal if they have not > responded to said proposal for 24 hours since that proposal was made. > 2.Responding to a proposal exempts a voter from this rule for that > proposal. 3. A player is always assumed to have made a consenting vote > for their own proposals. * 'proposal' isn't defined. Is it sufficiently clear that it refers to a proposal made for the purposes of forming a Consensus of Opinion? I wouldn't want someone to be deemed to have consented to, say, a marriage proposal. * 24 hours seems a bit short. What if they can't check email in that time? Is this intended just as an initial measure to get the ball rolling, or a long-term institution? * As Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion stands, a player has no right to vote on their own proposal, so clause 3 is meaningless. adam From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:13:05 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFMG-0001wF-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:13:04 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:44305) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFMD-0006ZM-Du (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:13:01 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFMD-0000HR-Cw for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:13:01 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:14:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 23:13:01 +0100 I disagree entirely with this. It provides too much power to someone who proposes something that they then decide they don't like. I would much prefer someone who proposes a rule to be deemed to be voting for it, and for them to be able to do nothing about it... that way, if everyone else agrees they're stuck with it... and, more importantly it forces people to think about their proposals. On Sep 22 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Create a rule, named 'Plausible Deniability', with the following text: > --- > Any person who has made a rules proposal may withdraw that proposal at > any time. Once a proposal has been withdrawn it may not take effect. > --- > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:13:54 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFN3-0001yV-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:13:53 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:46145) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFMz-0007Zu-I0 (return-path stjm2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:13:49 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAFMy-0006bf-L4 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:13:49 +0000 Message-ID: <4151F923.4070201@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:14:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:13:55 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: > --- > Remove all text after the word 'world.' from rule 3. > --- > > --- > The Rule of Autoadoption > > Any player may join the game providing that the following events have > happened: > > 1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). > 2) They are not already in the List of Voters. > 3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: > a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. > b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. > c) They wish to join the game. > > Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of > Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game. Their consent is not > needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration > at the time of their joining the game. I would like the last sentence to be stronger. They shouldn't have any part to play in proposals or other game votes that occurred before their joining (e.g. with my dispute rule, once a dispute has been called you can't sign people up to make sure your way of thinking gets the votes) I'm not sure how best to phrase it though Stuart From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:26:27 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFZD-0002S9-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:26:27 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45157) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFZB-0001MC-7w (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:26:25 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFZB-0001YE-6v for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:26:25 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Stumo's proposal. X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:27:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 23:26:25 +0100 there's a problem in that if people are voting between two gamestates, one of which is the disputee's (for an example.) and the other of which is from a third porty, then that third party could be chosen randomly to rule on the game state. Also... for example... Adam and Jon dispute the game state, and pick from a hat myself to rule on the current gamestate. I rule that I win... and no-one can dispute this? I like this... but only if I get picked randomly out of a hat... a hat that can contain my name many many times, I add. ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:31:33 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFe9-0002bC-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:31:33 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:34475) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFe6-0001Yh-TM (return-path stjm2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:31:30 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAFdg-0003Fo-Ug for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:31:22 +0000 Message-ID: <4151FD04.90206@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Stumo's proposal. References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0, MAILTO_CRSID -1.05, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR 1.05) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:32:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:30:28 +0100 David (Birch) wrote: > there's a problem in that if people are voting between two gamestates, > one of which is the disputee's (for an example.) and the other of which > is from a third porty, then that third party could be chosen randomly to > rule on the game state. That was intentional - the idea is to encourage people to agree on something (hence the week long thing) but if not risk that they might not get it their way. > > Also... for example... Adam and Jon dispute the game state, and pick > from a hat myself to rule on the current gamestate. I rule that I win... > and no-one can dispute this? That should probably be corrected, perhaps "by selecting one of the gamestates proposed" - although then everyone proposes they win as a state. Perhaps they have to pick between the two gamestates that have got the most votes so far. Also I should probably make it that a player can only have be voteing for zero or one interpretation at a point in time. > > I like this... but only if I get picked randomly out of a hat... a hat > that can contain my name many many times, I add. > > ---------- > dtb26@cam.ac.uk > phone number 07906 638541 > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:36:03 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFiU-0002ky-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:36:02 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45902) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFiQ-00083J-75 (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:35:58 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFiQ-0002Xg-6B for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:35:58 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Arbitration X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: <4151F792.7010003@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <1095888181.3599.22.camel@mewo2> <4151F792.7010003@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:37:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 23:35:58 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > The Rule of Dispute Resolution > > If a member of the list of voters ("the disputer") disagrees with > another member ("the disputee") on their interpretation of the current > game state, the disputer may state publically that they dispute the game > state, and explain what they believe the game state should be. All > members of the list of voters may then vote. The time at which all > members have been informed of the dispute is the "Start of the voting > period" > > During the voting period, additional interpretations of the game state > may be suggested and voted on as with the original interpretations. > > If within one week of the start of the voting period, one specific > interpretation of the game state has votes from at least two thirds of > the members of the list of voters, then that interpretation is accepted. > > Votes may be changed or withdrawn within the voting period. > > If one week after the start of the voting period this has not occurred, > then "the disputer" and "the disputee" must select a member of the list > of voters randomly, by drawing names from a hat or other process agreed > between them. This member will rule on the current game state, and their > decision cannot be disputed. Ok, for once, I don't have any trivialities to nitpick ... but I don't like this rule. I think the assumption that any dispute over the gamestate is between two people is wrong; far more likely is that it's between one person and everyone else, or two complete halves of the set of players. I think it's awkward to require disputes to take up to a week to be resolved, especially if the disputed claim is one such as "I have won the game" or "the game is in a massively different state to what everyone believes". I think requiring a two-thirds majority of the entire list of voters is dangerous, since I'd prefer it if the game were accessible to players who don't want to commit themselves to too much. I'm unhappy about the possibility of any arbitrary member of the list of voters being selected to make possibly momentuous decisions on the game state, for the same reason. I don't want to end up taking too many ideas from past Nomics, but the Call-For-Judgement system has a lot of appeal. (Essentially, any player may present a statement which they wish to have ruled true or false, a willing player is selected [randomly or algorithmically] as judge, and then the judge passes judgement on the issue, with any player able to appeal the decision if it appears to have been made on a flawed basis). I also quite like the idea that we could elect someone as arbitrator every week or fortnight and that person would take the role of judge in resolving disputes, or alternatively that there is some property of the game that determines the judge. Also, I think your proposal requires a lot of book-keeping. This is something that needs to be addressed if and when we formalise the system for voting on rule changes, and I think it also needs to be addressed in any long-term dispute resolution rule. adam From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:38:07 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFkV-0002pV-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:38:07 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.154]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFkR-0003Rw-Ic (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:38:04 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Stumo's proposal. From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: <4151FD04.90206@cam.ac.uk> References: <4151FD04.90206@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095892616.3599.27.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:39:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:36:56 +0100 On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 23:30, Stuart Moore wrote: > Also I should probably make it that a player can only have be voteing > for zero or one interpretation at a point in time. I don't like this for the same reason I don't like most electoral systems, viz Arrow's Theorem and all that. Also, dispute resolution systems are nasty ugly hacks. Martin From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:38:39 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFl1-0002qv-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:38:39 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:46110) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFkz-0003Y5-FV (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:38:37 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFkz-0002nA-Ed for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:38:37 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:39:04 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 23:38:37 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Edited version: > > --- > The Rule of Autoadoption > > Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters > may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: > > 1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). > 2) They are not already in the List of Voters. > 3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: > a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. > b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. > c) They wish to join the game. > > Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of > Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game. Their consent is not > needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration > at the time of their joining the game. I consent. I wonder if anyone's keeping track of these? Oh, also, now we need to define which entities are elegible to be members of the List of Voters. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:42:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFoR-0002yP-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:42:11 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:46342) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFoP-0007nt-BR (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:42:09 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFoP-00037u-AR for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:42:09 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:43:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 23:42:09 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Create a rule, named 'Plausible Deniability', with the following text: > --- > Any person who has made a rules proposal may withdraw that proposal at > any time. Once a proposal has been withdrawn it may not take effect. > --- I don't have a problem with this, although ahdok has already objected. However, I note that this rule, if passed, would definitely be in contradiction with Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion, and hence it should not be passed until we have a way for one rule to override another. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:45:02 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFrC-00035d-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:45:02 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:46515) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFr8-0008LT-2m (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:44:58 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFr8-0003Og-1l for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:44:58 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: <4151F923.4070201@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <4151F923.4070201@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:46:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Sep 2004 23:44:58 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > I would like the last sentence to be stronger. They shouldn't have any > part to play in proposals or other game votes that occurred before their > joining (e.g. with my dispute rule, once a dispute has been called you > can't sign people up to make sure your way of thinking gets the votes) I think this is something that has to be addressed for each case in which it might be relevant. For example, if you wanted your dispute resolution rule to work the way you suggest, it should specify that the votes are cast by 'entities which were on the List of Voters at the time the dispute was called'. I don't think there's any saner way to do it; the rule covering joining the game can't be expected to deal with every possible rule that might refer to the List of Voters. adam From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 22 23:50:09 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFw9-0003J7-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:50:09 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.155]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFw4-0000Xq-HU (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:50:06 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095893336.3599.34.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:51:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:48:56 +0100 On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 23:06, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > The Rule of Autoadoption > > Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters > may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: > > 1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). > 2) They are not already in the List of Voters. > 3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: > a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. > b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. > c) They wish to join the game. > > Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of > Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game. Their consent is not > needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration > at the time of their joining the game. > A proposal: --- A Planet? Where Lizards Evolved From Men? All entities eligible to be members of the List Of Voters shall be considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV until a member of the List Of Voters states "I do not believe is a lizardman from Antares IV", where "" is to be replaced with the name of the entity in question. No existing member of the List Of Voters is a lizardman from Antares IV. --- Basically, this stops us from being invaded. All new players need an existing player to let them in. This proposal is obviously contingent on some variant of The Rule Of Autoadoption being brought into force. Martin From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Wed Sep 22 23:38:15 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAFkd-0002po-00 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:38:15 +0100 Received: from bay24-f1.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.51]:1986 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAFkY-00078U-O5 (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:38:11 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:38:03 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:37:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2004 22:38:03.0038 (UTC) FILETIME=[D216A3E0:01C4A0F4] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=1.173, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: s Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 22 23:52:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:37:53 +0100 Okay, I'm going to try to do this all in one mail so as not to clutter things up too much. The following proposals appear to be around (in no particular order): 1. Remove all text after the word 'world' from Rule 3, The List of Voters, since it is no longer necessary now the game exists. On this I vote Aye. 2. The Rule of Autoadoption. I reserve my vote on this, pending discussion on whether we really want people to be able to arbitrarily join without the notification or consent of any of the current players, which I suggest may not be a good idea. Perhaps a simple majority of the game consenting? 3. The Rule of Nicknames: I vote aye to this in the current form. 4. The Rule of Structured Names, with the proviso for rules mentioned during proposals included. Aye. 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent: I counterpropose this rule in the following form: A player shall be deemed to have consented to a proposed change to the Rules if all of the following hold: a) The proposal was made at least 48 hours ago. b) They have sent at least one message to the mailing list during that time. c) They have not explicitly expressed that they do not consent for that change to enter the gamestate. 6: The Law of Lexicography Aye. We can argue about who has to keep it up to date later :) 7: The Rule of Dispute Resolution Nay, I'm afraid, I don't think the game has time for that sort of process, and a majority of that form is unlikely to work nicely. We do need something to do this, but I'm not sure that's the way. A random selection of judge might work better, or the player on the lowest number of points, should we ever get a points system. 8. The Rule of Plausible Deniability. Aye. I also propose the following: N. The Existence of the Committee. There shall exist a Committee, which shall contain a number of Posts. Each Post shall consist of a Title, which can be assigned a member of the List of Players, and a list of duties which the member holding that Post shall perform. The list of Posts follows: Note that this explicitly does not define either any Posts, or the method by which they can be assigned to Players. But I suspect that we're going to want to assign someone to keep the rules uptodate, and someone for the Definition Dictionary, and so on, and this is a first building block towards that, with plenty of space for other sorts of posts as well. JJ _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:00:51 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAG6V-0003ie-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:00:51 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:47563) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAG6S-0002iG-Is (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:00:48 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAG6Q-0004yW-Ll for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:00:47 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Stumo's proposal. X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: <1095892616.3599.27.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095892616.3599.27.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:01:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 00:00:46 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 23:30, Stuart Moore wrote: > > > Also I should probably make it that a player can only have be voteing > > for zero or one interpretation at a point in time. > > I don't like this for the same reason I don't like most electoral > systems, viz Arrow's Theorem and all that. Also, dispute resolution > systems are nasty ugly hacks. Does this mean that you're opposed to adding any kind of dispute resolution system to the game? Because if so, I admire your purism, but I will bet you a reasonable amount of money or alcohol that it turns out we need one. adam From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:04:58 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGAU-000410-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:04:58 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.154]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGAP-0008MF-4c (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:04:54 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Stumo's proposal. From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: <1095892616.3599.27.camel@mewo2> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095894225.3599.38.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:05:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:03:45 +0100 On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 00:00, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 22 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > > I don't like this for the same reason I don't like most electoral > > systems, viz Arrow's Theorem and all that. Also, dispute resolution > > systems are nasty ugly hacks. > > Does this mean that you're opposed to adding any kind of dispute resolution > system to the game? Because if so, I admire your purism, but I will bet you > a reasonable amount of money or alcohol that it turns out we need one. I don't like the idea of one, although I see why one might be necessary. More importantly, I don't like any implementation that's been suggested so far. It's quite possible that there doesn't exist an implementation which I would like. However, I'm going to veto this proposal, in the hope that someone will come up with something more elegant and equitable. Martin From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:09:20 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGEi-0004An-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:09:20 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:44501) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGEe-00008A-CY (return-path stjm2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:09:16 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAGEb-0008Ka-0f for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:09:13 +0000 Message-ID: <415205FA.40309@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=1.173, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: s Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:10:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:08:42 +0100 John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > Okay, I'm going to try to do this all in one mail so as not to clutter > things up too much. > > The following proposals appear to be around (in no particular order): > > 1. Remove all text after the word 'world' from Rule 3, The List of > Voters, since it is no longer necessary now the game exists. > On this I vote Aye. Aye > > 2. The Rule of Autoadoption. > I reserve my vote on this, pending discussion on whether we really want > people to be able to arbitrarily join without the notification or > consent of any of the current players, which I suggest may not be a good > idea. Perhaps a simple majority of the game consenting? I'm not sure. Seems reasonable > > 3. The Rule of Nicknames: > I vote aye to this in the current form. That would be the form Jon Amery originally posted it in? > > 4. The Rule of Structured Names, with the proviso for rules mentioned > during proposals included. > Aye. I vote aye to the version in the post 22/09/2004 22:07 > > 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent: > I counterpropose this rule in the following form: > A player shall be deemed to have consented to a proposed change to the > Rules if all of the following hold: a) The proposal was made at least 48 > hours ago. b) They have sent at least one message to the mailing list > during that time. c) They have not explicitly expressed that they do not > consent for that change to enter the gamestate. I'm not certain - possibly. Does explicitly mean they have to have referred to that by name, or could I say "for the moment I vote against any impending changes other than those I have explicitly voted for, but I will review this later" > > 6: The Law of Lexicography > Aye. > We can argue about who has to keep it up to date later :) Aye - it will be useful to be able to give "player" a sensible definition > > 7: The Rule of Dispute Resolution > Nay, I'm afraid, I don't think the game has time for that sort of > process, and a majority of that form is unlikely to work nicely. We do > need something to do this, but I'm not sure that's the way. A random > selection of judge might work better, or the player on the lowest number > of points, should we ever get a points system. Fair enough, people seem to be against the idea behind the rule. What exactly are the alternative proposals? > > 8. The Rule of Plausible Deniability. > Aye. Nay. > > I also propose the following: > > N. The Existence of the Committee. > There shall exist a Committee, which shall contain a number of Posts. > Each Post shall consist of a Title, which can be assigned a member of > the List of Players, and a list of duties which the member holding that > Post shall perform. The list of Posts follows: I reserve judgement for the moment I seem to remember why this worked well in a newsgroup - threading made it a lot easier to see who was talking about what and count all the votes that had been made. I believe it's possible for Mailman to link this to the newsgroup, shall we try that? From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:09:29 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGEq-0004BC-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:09:28 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:47879) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGEl-0005vY-Bt (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:09:23 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGEl-0005na-Av for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:09:23 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Consents Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:10:04 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 00:09:23 +0100 I give consent to the second form of The Rule of Autoadoption and to A Planet? Where Lizards Evolved From Men?. I note that we still require: * A definition of which entities are eligible to be members of the List of Voters * Some means of allowing rules to override parts of other rules * A way to resolve the situation if the rules are found to be contradictory or ambiguous adam From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:10:51 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGGB-0004Eq-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:10:51 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:47931) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGG7-0006AU-SC (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:10:47 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGG7-0005uq-RF for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:10:47 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Names: X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: <1095894225.3599.38.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095894225.3599.38.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:11:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 00:10:47 +0100 Martin said the rules don't have interesting enough names. I propose the following names for the rules we already have: Rule 1. The "why-the-hell-are-we-doing-this" rule. Rule 2. The "what-the-hell-is-going-on-here" rule. Rule 3. The Blacklist rule (note, the list of vocers should be separated and renamed the pinklist. This does not affect the actual rules of the game.) Rule 4. The rule least likely to be used. I'll come up with something a little more interesting when it's not 12:00 midnight. -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:16:24 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGLX-0004PN-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:16:23 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.153]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGLS-00078Y-PP (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:16:20 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: <415205FA.40309@cam.ac.uk> References: <415205FA.40309@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095894890.3599.41.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:17:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:14:50 +0100 On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 00:08, Stuart Moore wrote: > I seem to remember why this worked well in a newsgroup - threading made > it a lot easier to see who was talking about what and count all the > votes that had been made. I believe it's possible for Mailman to link > this to the newsgroup, shall we try that? Or you could just use a mail client with threading. And personally, I don't think it worked well on the newsgroup, although that was mostly because we introduced rules giving points for successful proposals. Also, our initial ruleset was full of cruft. Martin From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:21:26 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGQP-0004aA-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:21:25 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.153]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGQL-0007y8-7o (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:21:22 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Consents From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095895213.3599.46.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:22:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:20:13 +0100 On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 00:09, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > * A definition of which entities are eligible to be members of the List of > Voters * Some means of allowing rules to override parts of other rules * A > way to resolve the situation if the rules are found to be contradictory or > ambiguous To the second point, I propose: --- The "Exception That Proves The" Rule A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, except those which mention it by name. --- How does that suit? Martin From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:21:48 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGQm-0004bL-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:21:48 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:48357) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGQk-00081F-Ra (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:21:46 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGQk-0006rA-QX for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:21:46 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:22:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 00:21:46 +0100 On Sep 22 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > The following proposals appear to be around (in no particular order): Here are my current standings and opinions on each of them, since we seem to have something approaching a summary going: > 1. Remove all text after the word 'world' from Rule 3, The List of > Voters, since it is no longer necessary now the game exists. On this I > vote Aye. Yep, I've already given consent to this. > 2. The Rule of Autoadoption. I reserve my vote on this, pending > discussion on whether we really want people to be able to arbitrarily > join without the notification or consent of any of the current players, > which I suggest may not be a good idea. Perhaps a simple majority of the > game consenting? I don't consider this to be a particularly likely problem, which is why I consented to this proposal anyway, but I feel that Martin's proposal that before a player can join an existing member must assert that they are not a lizardman from Antares IV handles the situation perfectly. > 3. The Rule of Nicknames: > I vote aye to this in the current form. > > 4. The Rule of Structured Names, with the proviso for rules mentioned > during proposals included. Aye. Yep, yep. > 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent: I counterpropose this rule in the > following form: A player shall be deemed to have consented to a proposed > change to the Rules if all of the following hold: a) The proposal was > made at least 48 hours ago. b) They have sent at least one message to the > mailing list during that time. c) They have not explicitly expressed that > they do not consent for that change to enter the gamestate. I object to your counterproposal on the grounds that it still doesn't address the primary objective of introducing assumed consent, namely that it should allow a way for the game to progress in the face of complete inactivity on the part of one or more players. > 6: The Law of Lexicography > Aye. > We can argue about who has to keep it up to date later :) I'm not giving consent to this, but I will happily do so to any version which makes it clear how updates are to be made (unless I don't like it, of course). > 7: The Rule of Dispute Resolution Nay, I'm afraid, I don't think the > game has time for that sort of process, and a majority of that form is > unlikely to work nicely. We do need something to do this, but I'm not > sure that's the way. A random selection of judge might work better, or > the player on the lowest number of points, should we ever get a points > system. I also decline to give consent. > 8. The Rule of Plausible Deniability. > Aye. Refusing to pass comment until it could be introduced without creating inconsistency in the rules. > I also propose the following: > > N. The Existence of the Committee. There shall exist a Committee, which > shall contain a number of Posts. Each Post shall consist of a Title, > which can be assigned a member of the List of Players, and a list of > duties which the member holding that Post shall perform. The list of > Posts follows: In essence, I approve. However, I prsent the following (short) list of objections: * There is no List of Players, only a List of Voters. If people think the two should be synonymous, fine, but right now we're still open to the possibility that there can be a separate list of people who want to interact with the game in other ways but not vote, or people who want to vote but nothing else. * I feel the phrase 'duties which the member holding that Post shall perform' is dangerous. The rules have no mandate over the behaviour of any entity which exists in the real world; specifically, the rules cannot require a player to do something without allowing for the possibility that they do not. I'd suggest changing this to 'duties which the member holding that Post is expected to perform', and later we can introduce a rule allowing us to impeach them or something if they don't * The sentence 'The list of Posts follows' should be removed, since it does not. I'd prefer for later rules to just say "The Committee shall contain the Post of Librarian" rather than go back and modify this rule every time we want to add something to the Committee. * Let's have a more exciting name than 'committee'. adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:22:15 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGRD-0004co-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:22:15 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:60826) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGR9-0002x3-HQ (return-path stjm2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:22:11 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAGQw-00055w-Oa for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:22:04 +0000 Message-ID: <415208E1.1010300@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Winning the game Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:23:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:21:05 +0100 Proposal: Twelve impossible things before breakfast The game is deemed to have ended when it is impossible for the game state to change at any point in the future. The person who made the last change to the game state will be declared the winner. For the purposes of this rule, if the last game action is a Consensus of Opinion, then the member of the list of voters who proposed the rule will be deemed to have changed the game state and therefore won the game - not the last person to vote on that Consensus of opinion. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:25:17 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGU9-0004jh-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:25:17 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:48573) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGU4-0006eP-UI (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:25:12 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGU4-00078i-TO for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:25:12 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: <415205FA.40309@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <415205FA.40309@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:26:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 00:25:12 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > I seem to remember why this worked well in a newsgroup - threading made > it a lot easier to see who was talking about what and count all the > votes that had been made. I believe it's possible for Mailman to link > this to the newsgroup, shall we try that? I note that, as long as people are sensible with which messages they actually reply to, the nomic-talk archive will give you a threaded view of all messages posted to the list in a given month. http://www.srcf.ucam.org/pipermail/nomic-talk/2004-September/thread.html adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:27:51 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGWc-0004oW-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:27:50 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:48680) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGWX-0006ya-JB (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:27:45 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGWX-0007Ln-IJ for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:27:45 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Names: X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1095894225.3599.38.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:28:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 00:27:45 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, David (Birch) wrote: > Rule 1. The "why-the-hell-are-we-doing-this" rule. Rule 2. The > "what-the-hell-is-going-on-here" rule. Rule 3. The Blacklist rule (note, > the list of vocers should be separated and renamed the pinklist. This > does not affect the actual rules of the game.) Rule 4. The rule least > likely to be used. I'm not particularly in favour of any of these, although I would be happy to see the List of Voters be renamed the Pinklist. I also feel that at a later date it might be worthwhile to create a rule which allows for the rewarding of players who create rules with interesting or amusing names. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:29:42 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGYQ-0004sd-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:29:42 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:48794) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGYN-0007KI-VU (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:29:39 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGYN-0007WC-UY for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:29:39 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: <1095894890.3599.41.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095894890.3599.41.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:30:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 00:29:39 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 00:08, Stuart Moore wrote: > > I seem to remember why this worked well in a newsgroup - threading made > > it a lot easier to see who was talking about what and count all the > > votes that had been made. I believe it's possible for Mailman to link > > this to the newsgroup, shall we try that? > > Or you could just use a mail client with threading. And personally, I > don't think it worked well on the newsgroup, although that was mostly > because we introduced rules giving points for successful proposals. > Also, our initial ruleset was full of cruft. It seems points for proposals is a staple of Suber rulesets. Most nomics seem to get around this by devaluing the possession of points, rather than restricting the means of acquiring them, which seems fine. adam From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 00:37:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGfi-00059w-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:37:14 +0100 Received: from bay24-f27.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.77]:1097 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGff-0000HF-6x (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:37:11 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:37:04 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:36:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] Lizards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2004 23:37:04.0082 (UTC) FILETIME=[10B71320:01C4A0FD] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=1.173, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: s Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:38:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:36:07 +0100 > >I give consent to the second form of The Rule of Autoadoption and to A >Planet? Where Lizards Evolved From Men?. I suggest rewording these two in the following form: A Planet? Where Players evolved from Lizards? All extranomic entities not currently on the List of Voters are considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV, until and unless a member of the List of Voters states publicly to the entire List that they do not believe that entity to be a lizardman from Antares IV, at which point that entity is no longer considered to be a lizardman from Antares IV. An entity is eligible to be a member of the List of Voters providing that they satisfy the following: 1) They are a member of the extranomic species Homo Sapiens Sapiens. 2) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. 3) They are not dead. Any entity which is eligible to join the List of Voters may do so, by making a post to the mailing list stating their desire to do so, after which they shall be added to the List and shall be considered to have full status in the game from the time at which they are added. There should be a corresponding change to Rule 4, Concensus of Opinion, appending the text 'at the time of proposal'. >I note that we still require: > >* A definition of which entities are eligible to be members of the List of >Voters * Some means of allowing rules to override parts of other rules * A >way to resolve the situation if the rules are found to be contradictory or >ambiguous This attempts to deal with the first point, the others are still needed. JJ _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:40:50 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGjC-0005Ge-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:40:50 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:49244) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGjB-0006FQ-77 (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:40:49 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGjB-0008Qn-6C for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:40:49 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Winning the game X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: <415208E1.1010300@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <415208E1.1010300@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:41:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 00:40:48 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Proposal: Twelve impossible things before breakfast > The game is deemed to have ended when it is impossible for the game > state to change at any point in the future. The person who made the last > change to the game state will be declared the winner. > > For the purposes of this rule, if the last game action is a Consensus of > Opinion, then the member of the list of voters who proposed the rule > will be deemed to have changed the game state and therefore won the game > - not the last person to vote on that Consensus of opinion. Egad, no. If we want to encourage creativity, the last thing we want is for players to make rules which cause the game to stagnate. Also, under this rule a valid winning strategy is for me to murder all of the other players and then remove myself from the game. adam From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:41:28 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGjo-0005HW-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:41:28 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.154]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGji-0006Kt-H2 (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:41:23 +0100 Subject: RE: [Nomic] Lizards From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095896414.3599.49.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=3.819, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: sss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:42:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:40:14 +0100 On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 00:36, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > > > >I give consent to the second form of The Rule of Autoadoption and to A > >Planet? Where Lizards Evolved From Men?. > > I suggest rewording these two in the following form: > > A Planet? Where Players evolved from Lizards? I think this is an attempt to shoehorn two rules into one. I would like to keep things separate, so that rules can be replaced more easily, should we so wish. It's good software design. Martin From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:42:46 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGl4-0005JN-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:42:46 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:58208) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGl1-0006F3-SI (return-path stjm2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:42:43 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAGkz-0003lP-6v for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:42:41 +0000 Message-ID: <41520DFA.7010102@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Winning the game References: <415208E1.1010300@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:43:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:42:50 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 23 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > >> Proposal: Twelve impossible things before breakfast >> The game is deemed to have ended when it is impossible for the game >> state to change at any point in the future. The person who made the >> last change to the game state will be declared the winner. >> >> For the purposes of this rule, if the last game action is a Consensus >> of Opinion, then the member of the list of voters who proposed the >> rule will be deemed to have changed the game state and therefore won >> the game - not the last person to vote on that Consensus of opinion. > > > Egad, no. If we want to encourage creativity, the last thing we want is > for players to make rules which cause the game to stagnate. Fair enough, it doesn't need to be the unique way of winning > > Also, under this rule a valid winning strategy is for me to murder all > of the other players and then remove myself from the game. I really really hope this needs no answer. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:43:15 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGlX-0005Kt-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:43:15 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:49318) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGlV-0003BO-FE (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:43:13 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGlV-0000AI-EM for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:43:13 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Consents X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: <1095895213.3599.46.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095895213.3599.46.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:44:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 00:43:12 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > --- > The "Exception That Proves The" Rule > > A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by > name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, > except those which mention it by name. > --- I'll consent to this proposal. Although I note that a rule only has to mention another rule to be allowed to override it, not state that it is overriding it, which could lead to some amusing loopholes ... adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:43:43 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGlz-0005LK-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:43:43 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:60027) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGlv-0006e5-Ea (return-path stjm2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:43:39 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAGlu-0004Yj-St for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:43:39 +0000 Message-ID: <41520E33.8090702@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Lizards References: <1095896414.3599.49.camel@mewo2> In-Reply-To: <1095896414.3599.49.camel@mewo2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=1.173, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: s Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:44:03 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:43:47 +0100 Martin O'Leary wrote: > On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 00:36, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >>>I give consent to the second form of The Rule of Autoadoption and to A >>>Planet? Where Lizards Evolved From Men?. >> >>I suggest rewording these two in the following form: >> >>A Planet? Where Players evolved from Lizards? > > > I think this is an attempt to shoehorn two rules into one. I would like > to keep things separate, so that rules can be replaced more easily, > should we so wish. It's good software design. I agree with Martin's point here, but think JJ's ideas were good. Stuart From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:46:07 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGoJ-0005QG-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:46:07 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGoF-0006ig-Bu (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:46:05 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Winning the game From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: <41520DFA.7010102@cam.ac.uk> References: <415208E1.1010300@cam.ac.uk> <41520DFA.7010102@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095896695.3599.52.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:47:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:44:56 +0100 On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 00:42, Stuart Moore wrote: > >> For the purposes of this rule, if the last game action is a Consensus > >> of Opinion, then the member of the list of voters who proposed the > >> rule will be deemed to have changed the game state and therefore won > >> the game - not the last person to vote on that Consensus of opinion. > > > > > > Egad, no. If we want to encourage creativity, the last thing we want is > > for players to make rules which cause the game to stagnate. > > Fair enough, it doesn't need to be the unique way of winning I'd like to keep winning conditions out of it for now. The last thing we (read "I") want is for the game to end early, or get too competitive too fast. Martin From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:50:22 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGsQ-0005XL-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:50:22 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:49510) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGsO-0007Q0-FD (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:50:20 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGsO-0000ei-ED for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:50:20 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: RE: [Nomic] Lizards X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:51:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 00:50:20 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >I give consent to the second form of The Rule of Autoadoption and to A > >Planet? Where Lizards Evolved From Men?. > > I suggest rewording these two in the following form: > > A Planet? Where Players evolved from Lizards? All extranomic entities > not currently on the List of Voters are considered to be lizardmen from > Antares IV, until and unless a member of the List of Voters states > publicly to the entire List that they do not believe that entity to be a > lizardman from Antares IV, at which point that entity is no longer > considered to be a lizardman from Antares IV. An entity is eligible to be > a member of the List of Voters providing that they satisfy the following: > 1) They are a member of the extranomic species Homo Sapiens Sapiens. 2) > They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. 3) They are not dead. Any > entity which is eligible to join the List of Voters may do so, by making > a post to the mailing list stating their desire to do so, after which > they shall be added to the List and shall be considered to have full > status in the game from the time at which they are added. > > There should be a corresponding change to Rule 4, Concensus of Opinion, > appending the text 'at the time of proposal'. I will consent for the changes described by either 'A Planet? Where Players evolved from Lizards?' or the pair of proposals 'The Rule of Autoadoption' and 'A Planet? Where Lizards Evolved From Men?', but not both, to be applied to the rules. I do, however, note that your proposal defines every single entity in our universe with the exception of the nine people on the List of Voters to be a lizardman from Antares IV, including, for example, the planet Earth, the nomic-talk mailing list or your own head (which is not explicitly named on the List of Voters, although it is a part of something which is). adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:52:10 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGuA-0005cW-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:52:10 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:49568) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGu7-0007fx-LG (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:52:07 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGu7-0000mX-KK for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:52:07 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Winning the game X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: <1095896695.3599.52.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095896695.3599.52.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:53:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 00:52:07 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > I'd like to keep winning conditions out of it for now. The last thing we > (read "I") want is for the game to end early, or get too competitive too > fast. I submit that someone being declared the winner does not necessarily mean that the game has to end. adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:54:01 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGvx-0005gY-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:54:01 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:35021) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGvr-0002ej-JL (return-path stjm2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:53:55 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAGvr-0007bh-0T for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:53:55 +0000 Message-ID: <4152109B.3040705@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Exception that proves the rule References: <1095895213.3599.46.camel@mewo2> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:55:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:54:03 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 23 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > >> --- >> The "Exception That Proves The" Rule >> >> A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by >> name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, >> except those which mention it by name. >> --- > > > I'll consent to this proposal. Although I note that a rule only has to > mention another rule to be allowed to override it, not state that it is > overriding it, which could lead to some amusing loopholes ... > I also consent, and suggest the following as a partner: The "dissapeared in a puff of logic" Rule If a change to the rules is about to be, or has been, made under the "Mutability of the Rules" rule, and someone can demonstrate that this interacts with existing rules to give contradictory behaviour, then the rules do not change and the change becomes "pending". If at some point in the future a "pending" rule change does not have contradictory behaviour, it becomes part of the ruleset. This explicitly overrides the "Mutability of the Rules" rule. From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 00:55:12 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGx6-0005jg-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:55:12 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:36332) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGx3-0005AR-P4 (return-path stjm2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:55:09 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAGx3-00080r-93 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:55:09 +0000 Message-ID: <415210E6.90800@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Winning the game References: <1095896695.3599.52.camel@mewo2> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:56:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:55:18 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 23 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > >> I'd like to keep winning conditions out of it for now. The last thing we >> (read "I") want is for the game to end early, or get too competitive too >> fast. > > > I submit that someone being declared the winner does not necessarily > mean that the game has to end. > I propose that I just lost "The Game" From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 00:57:17 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAGz6-0005nY-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:57:16 +0100 Received: from bay24-f37.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.87]:4362 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGz3-00037P-0f (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:57:13 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:57:05 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:56:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Lizards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2004 23:57:05.0910 (UTC) FILETIME=[DD0F7960:01C4A0FF] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=1.173, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: s Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:58:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:56:10 +0100 > >Martin O'Leary wrote: > >>On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 00:36, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: >> >>>>I give consent to the second form of The Rule of Autoadoption and to A >>>>Planet? Where Lizards Evolved From Men?. >>> >>>I suggest rewording these two in the following form: >>> >>>A Planet? Where Players evolved from Lizards? >> >> >>I think this is an attempt to shoehorn two rules into one. I would like >>to keep things separate, so that rules can be replaced more easily, >>should we so wish. It's good software design. Whereas I wrote that precisely because they looked like two parts of the same rule, since neither made much, if any sense, without the other. Hmmm. I'll give consent for the other method if you really want it that way, but I was trying to clean things up a bit. JJ > >I agree with Martin's point here, but think JJ's ideas were good. > >Stuart > _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 00:58:13 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAH01-0005pK-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:58:13 +0100 Received: from bay24-f18.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.68]:1893 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAGzw-0003EA-FV (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:58:08 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:58:01 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:57:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2004 23:58:01.0533 (UTC) FILETIME=[FE36DED0:01C4A0FF] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 00:59:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:57:36 +0100 > >Here are my current standings and opinions on each of them, since we seem >to have something approaching a summary going: > >>1. Remove all text after the word 'world' from Rule 3, The List of Voters, >>since it is no longer necessary now the game exists. On this I vote Aye. > >Yep, I've already given consent to this. > >>2. The Rule of Autoadoption. I reserve my vote on this, pending discussion >>on whether we really want people to be able to arbitrarily join without >>the notification or consent of any of the current players, which I suggest >>may not be a good idea. Perhaps a simple majority of the game consenting? > >I don't consider this to be a particularly likely problem, which is why I >consented to this proposal anyway, but I feel that Martin's proposal that >before a player can join an existing member must assert that they are not a >lizardman from Antares IV handles the situation perfectly. > >>3. The Rule of Nicknames: >>I vote aye to this in the current form. >> >>4. The Rule of Structured Names, with the proviso for rules mentioned >>during proposals included. Aye. > >Yep, yep. > >>5. The Rule of Assumed Consent: I counterpropose this rule in the >>following form: A player shall be deemed to have consented to a proposed >>change to the Rules if all of the following hold: a) The proposal was made >>at least 48 hours ago. b) They have sent at least one message to the >>mailing list during that time. c) They have not explicitly expressed that >>they do not consent for that change to enter the gamestate. > >I object to your counterproposal on the grounds that it still doesn't >address the primary objective of introducing assumed consent, namely that >it should allow a way for the game to progress in the face of complete >inactivity on the part of one or more players. Oh, good point, it was supposed to, I must have gotten confused somewhere in there. How about changing that to at least 24 hours ago with a message posted during that, or 72 hours without? > >>6: The Law of Lexicography >>Aye. >>We can argue about who has to keep it up to date later :) > >I'm not giving consent to this, but I will happily do so to any version >which makes it clear how updates are to be made (unless I don't like it, of >course). > >>7: The Rule of Dispute Resolution Nay, I'm afraid, I don't think the game >>has time for that sort of process, and a majority of that form is unlikely >>to work nicely. We do need something to do this, but I'm not sure that's >>the way. A random selection of judge might work better, or the player on >>the lowest number of points, should we ever get a points system. > >I also decline to give consent. > >>8. The Rule of Plausible Deniability. >>Aye. > >Refusing to pass comment until it could be introduced without creating >inconsistency in the rules. This could be solved by changing Rule 4 to read: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular change to the rules exists when one entity named on the List of Voters proposes the change to all entities named on the List of Voters and obtains unambiguous consent to that change from each such entity. The entity proposing the change is considered to have given consent, though e may retract eir consent, in which case the change shall no longer be under consideration. > >>I also propose the following: >> >>N. The Existence of the Committee. There shall exist a Committee, which >>shall contain a number of Posts. Each Post shall consist of a Title, which >>can be assigned a member of the List of Players, and a list of duties >>which the member holding that Post shall perform. The list of Posts >>follows: > >In essence, I approve. However, I prsent the following (short) list of >objections: > >* There is no List of Players, only a List of Voters. If people think the >two should be synonymous, fine, but right now we're still open to the >possibility that there can be a separate list of people who want to >interact with the game in other ways but not vote, or people who want to >vote but nothing else. That was just a misremembering, it should read List of Voters. > >* I feel the phrase 'duties which the member holding that Post shall >perform' is dangerous. The rules have no mandate over the behaviour of any >entity which exists in the real world; specifically, the rules cannot >require a player to do something without allowing for the possibility that >they do not. I'd suggest changing this to 'duties which the member holding >that Post is expected to perform', and later we can introduce a rule >allowing us to impeach them or something if they don't. good call. > >* The sentence 'The list of Posts follows' should be removed, since it does >not. I'd prefer for later rules to just say "The Committee shall contain >the Post of Librarian" rather than go back and modify this rule every time >we want to add something to the Committee. OK > >* Let's have a more exciting name than 'committee'. Yes, but I'm still failing to think of one. I think it'll be best thought of twinned with a good name for the game itself, I'm just drawing blanks. JJ _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 01:02:33 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAH4D-00064J-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:02:33 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.156]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAH49-0003tT-5J (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:02:31 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095897681.3599.63.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=3.819, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: sss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:03:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:01:22 +0100 JJ's handy-dandy Summary-O-Stuff: > The following proposals appear to be around (in no particular order): > > 1. Remove all text after the word 'world' from Rule 3, The List of Voters, > since it is no longer necessary now the game exists. Aye, although I see no reason to do so, other than one of neatness. > 2. The Rule of Autoadoption. Aye, although I'd quite like to see A Planet? Where Lizards Evolved From Men? ratified at the same time. > 3. The Rule of Nicknames: Did I miss something, or is this just a name for Jon's proposed rule which starts "5. There shall be a list of {real name, pseudonym} pairs"? I vote aye to that. > 4. The Rule of Structured Names, with the proviso for rules mentioned during > proposals included. Aye, with reservations. > 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent: > I counterpropose this rule in the following form: > A player shall be deemed to have consented to a proposed change to the Rules > if all of the following hold: a) The proposal was made at least 48 hours > ago. b) They have sent at least one message to the mailing list during that > time. c) They have not explicitly expressed that they do not consent for > that change to enter the gamestate. As Adam has pointed out, this doesn't solve the main problem the rule was meant to solve. I'd urge people to consider my modification to the original proposal (message of 22:23, 22 Jan). > 6: The Law of Lexicography Aye, I suppose. > 7: The Rule of Dispute Resolution As I've already said, nay. > 8. The Rule of Plausible Deniability. Aye, on the assumption that this cannot change anything once a rule has already been accepted. > N. The Existence of the Committee. > There shall exist a Committee, which shall contain a number of Posts. Each > Post shall consist of a Title, which can be assigned a member of the List of > Players, and a list of duties which the member holding that Post shall > perform. The list of Posts follows: I have the same reservations as Adam on this. Martin From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 01:04:07 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAH5j-00066g-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:04:07 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:50067) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAH5g-0001If-FC (return-path stjm2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:04:04 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAH5f-0002Fz-UY for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:04:04 +0000 Message-ID: <415212FC.50305@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Lizards References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=1.173, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: s Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:05:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:04:12 +0100 John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >> >> Martin O'Leary wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 00:36, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: >>> >>>>> I give consent to the second form of The Rule of Autoadoption and >>>>> to A Planet? Where Lizards Evolved From Men?. >>>> >>>> >>>> I suggest rewording these two in the following form: >>>> >>>> A Planet? Where Players evolved from Lizards? >>> >>> >>> >>> I think this is an attempt to shoehorn two rules into one. I would like >>> to keep things separate, so that rules can be replaced more easily, >>> should we so wish. It's good software design. > > > Whereas I wrote that precisely because they looked like two parts of the > same rule, since neither made much, if any sense, without the other. > Hmmm. I'll give consent for the other method if you really want it that > way, but I was trying to clean things up a bit. As I understand the system, the proposal may make many rules, so you have all or none, but they are then separate and so can be changed later if we wish. Stuart From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 01:04:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAH5q-000671-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:04:14 +0100 Received: from bay24-f9.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.59]:1627 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAH5l-00045a-ON (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:04:09 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:04:01 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:03:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Exception that proves the rule Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 00:04:01.0212 (UTC) FILETIME=[D49987C0:01C4A100] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:05:03 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:03:05 +0100 >>>The "Exception That Proves The" Rule >>> >>>A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by >>>name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, >>>except those which mention it by name. >>>--- >> >> >>I'll consent to this proposal. Although I note that a rule only has to >>mention another rule to be allowed to override it, not state that it is >>overriding it, which could lead to some amusing loopholes ... >> I consent too, that sounds like fun :) > > >I also consent, and suggest the following as a partner: > >The "dissapeared in a puff of logic" Rule > >If a change to the rules is about to be, or has been, made under the >"Mutability of the Rules" rule, and someone can demonstrate that this >interacts with existing rules to give contradictory behaviour, then the >rules do not change and the change becomes "pending". If at some point in >the future a "pending" rule change does not have contradictory behaviour, >it becomes part of the ruleset. This explicitly overrides the "Mutability >of the Rules" rule. I'm not sure the wording of that is quite tight enough, I think it should be more like '...demonstrate that the addition of this rule to the current ruleset would either cause a paradox in the ruleset, or allow an action to be taken which would have paradoxical result, then the rules do not change...' Then you need to explicitly add "pending" rules to the ruleset one at a time, to ensure that you can't end up adding two pending ones simultaneously, neither of which conflicts with the previous set but which conflict with each other. JJ _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 01:05:32 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAH76-00069w-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:05:32 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:49927) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAH73-0001Hl-WC (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:05:30 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAH73-0001gu-VC for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:05:29 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Three proposals Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:06:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 01:05:29 +0100 I would like to propose three changes, each of which creates a new rule: ============================================== Rule of Self-Image The game shall have a name, which will be "Terrapin Nomic". ============================================== Rule of Conflict If a Judgement Procedure as defined by the rules determines that two or more rules are in conflict and that it it not clear from the rules which of them should take precedence, the entity which initiated that Judgement Procedure may create and publically present a Conflict Resolution Roadmap. A Conflict Resolution Roadmap is a document which describes changes to the rules intended solely to remove the conflict in question. Once a CRR has been presented, the changes it describes will take effect on the rules. Any changes described by a Conflict Resolution Roadmap which have effects other than to resolve the conflict the Roadmap was created to address will not be applied and the creator of the Roadmap will be guilty of the crime of Deviousness. ============================================== And There Shall Be No Lizardmen Any entity which is a member of the List of Voters may cause itself to be immediately removed from the List of Voters by publically announcing itself to be a lizardman from Antares IV. The entity in question is encouraged to use this opportunity to mock the puny humans for their pathetic inability to see the truth until it was too late. ============================================== adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 01:11:52 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAHDE-0006Le-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:11:52 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50063) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHDB-0005J4-7f (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:11:49 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHD8-000291-LP for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:11:46 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Exception that proves the rule X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: <4152109B.3040705@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <1095895213.3599.46.camel@mewo2> <4152109B.3040705@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:12:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 01:11:46 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > The "dissapeared in a puff of logic" Rule > > If a change to the rules is about to be, or has been, made under the > "Mutability of the Rules" rule, and someone can demonstrate that this > interacts with existing rules to give contradictory behaviour, then the > rules do not change and the change becomes "pending". If at some point > in the future a "pending" rule change does not have contradictory > behaviour, it becomes part of the ruleset. This explicitly overrides the > "Mutability of the Rules" rule. Too unpredictable. As written, if I can demonstrate that a change made a month ago caused the rules to become inconsistent, either that change is immediately retracted, even if it no longer makes sense for this to happen and possibly invalidating other changes that have occured in the meantime, or the rule is retroactively removed from existence, which makes it a bloody nightmare to know what the state of the game actually is. Also, you haven't explained a procedure for declaring that a rule change has been made pending, and someone will have to be saddled with the responsibility of checking the list of pending rules every time the rules change to see if any of them can now be enforced. See my recent post for my suggestion for dealing with contradictions. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 01:15:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAHGY-0006V8-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:15:18 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50134) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHGV-0005sJ-Gu (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:15:15 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHGV-0002Oa-Fi for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:15:15 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:16:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 01:15:15 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >> 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent: I counterpropose this rule in the > >> following form: A player shall be deemed to have consented to a > >> proposed change to the Rules if all of the following hold: a) The > >> proposal was made at least 48 hours ago. b) They have sent at least > >> one message to the mailing list during that time. c) They have not > >> explicitly expressed that they do not consent for that change to enter > >> the gamestate. > > > > I object to your counterproposal on the grounds that it still doesn't > > address the primary objective of introducing assumed consent, namely > > that it should allow a way for the game to progress in the face of > > complete inactivity on the part of one or more players. > > Oh, good point, it was supposed to, I must have gotten confused > somewhere in there. How about changing that to at least 24 hours ago with > a message posted during that, or 72 hours without? I think this could potentially become very confusing, allowing the posting of unassociated messages to have an effect on the acceptance of a proposal. Can we not just make it 72 hours and eliminate clause b? > >>8. The Rule of Plausible Deniability. > >>Aye. > > > >Refusing to pass comment until it could be introduced without creating > >inconsistency in the rules. > > This could be solved by changing Rule 4 to read: A Consensus of Opinion > on a particular change to the rules exists when one entity named on the > List of Voters proposes the change to all entities named on the List of > Voters and obtains unambiguous consent to that change from each such > entity. The entity proposing the change is considered to have given > consent, though e may retract eir consent, in which case the change shall > no longer be under consideration. Or alternatively, just by stating that it overrides Consensus of Opinion, once Martin's rule is passed (which I hope it will be). > >* Let's have a more exciting name than 'committee'. > > Yes, but I'm still failing to think of one. I think it'll be best > thought of twinned with a good name for the game itself, I'm just drawing > blanks. I recommend "The Defenders of the Earth". adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 01:20:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAHLH-0006jG-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:20:11 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:41694) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHLE-0003xZ-63 (return-path stjm2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:20:08 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAHLA-0002oX-MC for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:20:04 +0000 Message-ID: <415216BD.6070202@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Three proposals References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:21:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:20:13 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > I would like to propose three changes, each of which creates a new rule: > > ============================================== > Rule of Self-Image > > The game shall have a name, which will be "Terrapin Nomic". I'm sure we can do better than that. I'd go for "What happens when too many geeks have too much time" but I admit this isn't very snappy. > ============================================== > Rule of Conflict > > If a Judgement Procedure as defined by the rules determines that two or > more rules are in conflict and that it it not clear from the rules which > of them should take precedence, the entity which initiated that > Judgement Procedure may create and publically present a Conflict > Resolution Roadmap. > > A Conflict Resolution Roadmap is a document which describes changes to > the rules intended solely to remove the conflict in question. Once a CRR > has been presented, the changes it describes will take effect on the > rules. Any changes described by a Conflict Resolution Roadmap which have > effects other than to resolve the conflict the Roadmap was created to > address will not be applied and the creator of the Roadmap will be > guilty of the crime of Deviousness. Sounds good. We could end up with someone initiating a Judgement Procedure and then buggering off, but hey. I give consent > ============================================== > And There Shall Be No Lizardmen > > Any entity which is a member of the List of Voters may cause itself to > be immediately removed from the List of Voters by publically announcing > itself to be a lizardman from Antares IV. The entity in question is > encouraged to use this opportunity to mock the puny humans for their > pathetic inability to see the truth until it was too late. I consent > ============================================== > From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 01:21:30 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAHMY-0006o1-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:21:30 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.156]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHMT-0006oe-Um (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:21:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Three proposals From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095898817.3599.67.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:22:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:20:17 +0100 On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 01:05, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Rule of Self-Image Aye, but I'll retract it if someone comes up with something better. > Rule of Conflict Aye, as it looks like we're going to have to have a rule of this sort, and this is as good as I can hope for. > And There Shall Be No Lizardmen Aye. Aye. Aye. Also, bonus marks for a rule name not of the form [The] Rule Of X. Martin From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 01:24:12 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAHPA-0006x5-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:24:12 +0100 Received: from bay24-f12.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.62]:1491 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHP7-00072v-3N (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:24:09 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:24:02 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:23:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] Three proposals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 00:24:02.0267 (UTC) FILETIME=[A07BFAB0:01C4A103] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:25:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:23:06 +0100 > >I would like to propose three changes, each of which creates a new rule: > >============================================== >Rule of Self-Image > >The game shall have a name, which will be "Terrapin Nomic". Sounds good. Suggest a committee name of "The Great Council of the Elder Turtles" to go with this. >============================================== >Rule of Conflict > >If a Judgement Procedure as defined by the rules determines that two or >more rules are in conflict and that it it not clear from the rules which of >them should take precedence, the entity which initiated that Judgement >Procedure may create and publically present a Conflict Resolution Roadmap. > >A Conflict Resolution Roadmap is a document which describes changes to the >rules intended solely to remove the conflict in question. Once a CRR has >been presented, the changes it describes will take effect on the rules. Any >changes described by a Conflict Resolution Roadmap which have effects other >than to resolve the conflict the Roadmap was created to address will not be >applied and the creator of the Roadmap will be guilty of the crime of >Deviousness. Like it. Although obviously we will want to define a Judgement procedure *before* we actually need one, it can and probably should wait until the rules flesh out a bit more. I am slightly worried about the possibility of having a conflict such that all possible resolutions of that conflict change other things as well, although it's possible such cannot actually exist. >============================================== And There Shall Be No >Lizardmen > >Any entity which is a member of the List of Voters may cause itself to be >immediately removed from the List of Voters by publically announcing itself >to be a lizardman from Antares IV. The entity in question is encouraged to >use this opportunity to mock the puny humans for their pathetic inability >to see the truth until it was too late. >============================================== Might as well have a rule to allow somebody to remove themselves from the game, sounds like a good way to do it. So, in summary, aye to all 3. JJ _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 01:30:00 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAHUm-0007C4-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:30:00 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50425) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHUj-0007wa-Lo (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:29:57 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHUe-0003Ln-KB for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:29:52 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Three proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: <415216BD.6070202@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <415216BD.6070202@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:30:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 01:29:51 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Sounds good. We could end up with someone initiating a Judgement > Procedure and then buggering off, but hey. I give consent The rule intentionally states that the entity who initiated the Judgement Procedure to determine the existence of a conflict *may* create a Conflict Resolution Roadmap. If e does not, nothing happens. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 01:31:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAHVs-0007F4-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:31:08 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50447) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHVq-0005mX-OO (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:31:06 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHVq-0003RU-NU for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:31:06 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Three proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: <1095898817.3599.67.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095898817.3599.67.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:32:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 01:31:06 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > > Rule of Conflict > > Aye, as it looks like we're going to have to have a rule of this sort, > and this is as good as I can hope for. Well, if you're careful about not allowing contradictions into the ruleset, as you said we all should be, it need never be invoked. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 01:43:57 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAHiH-0007Z5-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:43:57 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50729) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHiB-00081p-Nu (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:43:51 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHiB-0004I6-My for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:43:51 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] and for sanity's sake Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:44:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 01:43:51 +0100 I propose the following change to the rules: ========== Alter the text of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular change to the rules exists when one entity named on the List of Voters proposes the change to all other entities named on the List of Voters and obtains unambiguous consent to that change from each such entity. to: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. ========== As such, we make people responsible for tracking the acceptance of their own proposals and declaring them to have passed. This also makes it possible for voters to veto their own proposal, simply by declining to post a Notice of Consensus. As it was, we had the possibility that everyone could consent to a proposal, but no-one might notice, and the proposal would technically come into efect despite no-one having had the faintest clue that it had done so. One more new-rule proposal before I go to bed, just for fun: ========== Rule of Girls Notices of Consensus are considered to be printed on coloured paper. Any electronic document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus is only deemed to be so if it clearly describes what colour paper it is printed on. ========== adam From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 01:45:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAHjT-0007bW-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:45:11 +0100 Received: from bay24-f42.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.92]:1490 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHjQ-0001rs-23 (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:45:08 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:45:01 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:44:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 00:45:01.0138 (UTC) FILETIME=[8ED47320:01C4A106] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:46:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:44:11 +0100 > >On Sep 23 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >> >> 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent: I counterpropose this rule in the >> >>following form: A player shall be deemed to have consented to a >> >>proposed change to the Rules if all of the following hold: a) The >> >>proposal was made at least 48 hours ago. b) They have sent at least >> one >>message to the mailing list during that time. c) They have not >> >>explicitly expressed that they do not consent for that change to enter >> >>the gamestate. >> > >> > I object to your counterproposal on the grounds that it still doesn't > >>address the primary objective of introducing assumed consent, namely > >>that it should allow a way for the game to progress in the face of > >>complete inactivity on the part of one or more players. >> >>Oh, good point, it was supposed to, I must have gotten confused somewhere >>in there. How about changing that to at least 24 hours ago with a message >>posted during that, or 72 hours without? > >I think this could potentially become very confusing, allowing the posting >of unassociated messages to have an effect on the acceptance of a proposal. >Can we not just make it 72 hours and eliminate clause b? yes, fine. I was just hoping to keep things moving a little faster than that, but once we get past the start that may well turn out to be plenty fast enough anyway, so it'll do. I consent to your revision. > >> >>8. The Rule of Plausible Deniability. >> >>Aye. >> > >> >Refusing to pass comment until it could be introduced without creating >> >inconsistency in the rules. >> >>This could be solved by changing Rule 4 to read: A Consensus of Opinion on >>a particular change to the rules exists when one entity named on the List >>of Voters proposes the change to all entities named on the List of Voters >>and obtains unambiguous consent to that change from each such entity. The >>entity proposing the change is considered to have given consent, though e >>may retract eir consent, in which case the change shall no longer be under >>consideration. > >Or alternatively, just by stating that it overrides Consensus of Opinion, >once Martin's rule is passed (which I hope it will be). Yes, much nicer. I don't think I'd read that proposal when I first mentioned this. > >> >* Let's have a more exciting name than 'committee'. >> >>Yes, but I'm still failing to think of one. I think it'll be best thought >>of twinned with a good name for the game itself, I'm just drawing blanks. > >I recommend "The Defenders of the Earth". See my response to your 'Three Proposals' JJ _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 01:46:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAHkU-0007dH-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:46:14 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:45180) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHkP-0004tM-QT (return-path stjm2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:46:09 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAHkP-00052o-6q for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:46:09 +0000 Message-ID: <41521CDA.2040509@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] and for sanity's sake References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:47:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:46:18 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > I propose the following change to the rules: > > ========== > Alter the text of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular change to the rules exists when > one entity named on the List of Voters proposes the change to all other > entities named on the List of Voters and obtains unambiguous consent to > that change from each such entity. > > to: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity > named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all > other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent > to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of > Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus > of Opinion has been reached. ========== I Consent > > As such, we make people responsible for tracking the acceptance of their > own proposals and declaring them to have passed. This also makes it > possible for voters to veto their own proposal, simply by declining to > post a Notice of Consensus. As it was, we had the possibility that > everyone could consent to a proposal, but no-one might notice, and the > proposal would technically come into efect despite no-one having had the > faintest clue that it had done so. > > One more new-rule proposal before I go to bed, just for fun: > ========== > Rule of Girls > > Notices of Consensus are considered to be printed on coloured paper. Any > electronic document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus is only > deemed to be so if it clearly describes what colour paper it is printed > on. ========== > Right... erm, I'll get back to you > adam > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 01:49:27 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAHnb-0007gj-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:49:27 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50835) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHnX-0000SM-CE (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:49:23 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHnX-0004f8-AL for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:49:23 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.162.67] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:50:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 01:49:23 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > yes, fine. I was just hoping to keep things moving a little faster than > that, but once we get past the start that may well turn out to be plenty > fast enough anyway, so it'll do. I consent to your revision. The game *will* slow down. Things will be easier when slightly fewer of the pending proposals depend upon one another and there's a better system for keeping track of proposals. Also, I'd like to keep the game in a state where one can at least keen vague track of it without having to check email every few hours in case an important decision goes by. adam From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 01:57:19 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAHvC-0007qM-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:57:18 +0100 Received: from bay24-f18.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.68]:3094 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAHv8-0003pB-Qg (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:57:14 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:57:07 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:56:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] and for sanity's sake Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 00:57:07.0354 (UTC) FILETIME=[3FB037A0:01C4A108] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 01:58:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:56:06 +0100 > >I propose the following change to the rules: > >========== >Alter the text of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: > >A Consensus of Opinion on a particular change to the rules exists when one >entity named on the List of Voters proposes the change to all other >entities named on the List of Voters and obtains unambiguous consent to >that change from each such entity. > >to: > >A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named >on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other >entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that >proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus >to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion >has been reached. ========== > >As such, we make people responsible for tracking the acceptance of their >own proposals and declaring them to have passed. This also makes it >possible for voters to veto their own proposal, simply by declining to post >a Notice of Consensus. As it was, we had the possibility that everyone >could consent to a proposal, but no-one might notice, and the proposal >would technically come into efect despite no-one having had the faintest >clue that it had done so. Nice plan, it makes that work quite nicely, and allows vetos without doing anything boring like coming out and saying so :) Aye, but are we sure we actually *want* this to be reworded so as not to apply to rules specifically, rather than creating slightly different methods for other things? We're likely to want the ability for players to do something without having to obtain concensus from all others at some point. > >One more new-rule proposal before I go to bed, just for fun: >========== >Rule of Girls > >Notices of Consensus are considered to be printed on coloured paper. Any >electronic document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus is only deemed >to be so if it clearly describes what colour paper it is printed on. >========== Oh, why not. Aye. _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 02:44:45 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAIf7-0000cv-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 02:44:45 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-248.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.248]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.156]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAIf1-0002Vo-QW (return-path mewo2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 02:44:40 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] and for sanity's sake From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095903811.3599.69.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 02:45:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 02:43:32 +0100 On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 01:43, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > I propose the following change to the rules: Aye and aye. Now I'm going to bed. Martin From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 08:23:09 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CANwb-0000UH-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:23:09 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:44327) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CANwW-000573-8K (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:23:04 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CANwV-000071-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:23:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CANv0-0003Kw-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:21:30 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 08:24:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:21:29 +0100 The numbering of dragons is a serious matter All objects in the game shall have a reference number. Reference numbers shall be unique over the lifetime of the game. Any object without a Reference number shall be assigned one. By default the Reference number assigned shall be the smallest unused positive integer (excepting zero). From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 08:31:07 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAO4J-0000j0-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:31:07 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:44875) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAO4G-0003fe-H3 (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:31:04 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAO4F-0001Iv-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:31:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CANxt-0003Nu-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:24:29 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal - timing Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 08:32:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:24:29 +0100 And the clock struck thirteen A game action is any single change of the game state. Game actions are atomic (that is that nothing else can occur during one), simple (they consist of a single change to the game state) and take an infinitesimal amount of game time. Thus events always occur in sequence, never simultaneously. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 09:23:55 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAOtP-0002hh-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:23:55 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:38078) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAOtN-0000pb-9E (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:23:53 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAOtN-0004Gw-85 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:23:53 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: RE: [Nomic] and for sanity's sake X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 09:24:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 09:23:53 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > Aye, but are we > sure we actually *want* this to be reworded so as not to apply to rules > specifically, rather than creating slightly different methods for other > things? We're likely to want the ability for players to do something > without having to obtain concensus from all others at some point. Then all we have to do is not require Consensus of Opinion to exist for those actions. It's a mechanic which can be applied to anything the rules choose to apply it to, but it doesn't purport to have any influence over the rest of the rules except where they choose to require it. adam From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 09:45:13 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAPE1-0003U0-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:45:13 +0100 Received: from bay24-f8.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.58]:1408 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAPDw-0007hr-R5 (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:45:09 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:45:01 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:44:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] Proposal - timing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 08:45:01.0748 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D54C740:01C4A149] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 09:46:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:44:18 +0100 >And the clock struck thirteen > >A game action is any single change of the game state. > >Game actions are atomic (that is that nothing else can occur during >one), simple (they consist of a single change to the game state) and >take an infinitesimal amount of game time. > >Thus events always occur in sequence, never simultaneously. Nah, that seems to make things far too uncomplicated, and disallows the possibility that we might want or need two things to happen at once. Also, I don't think that 'a single change to the gamestate' is necessarily well defined. Is that a single word change in the rules? A single character? A single 'update state' (and if so, what's the point of this rule?). A player making some sort of action with Entities not yet defined? That would need clarification a lot further if we were to have something of this sort, I think. JJ _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 09:48:31 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAPHD-0003cc-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:48:31 +0100 Received: from bay24-f20.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.70]:2207 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAPH5-00005w-N1 (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:48:23 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:48:14 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:47:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] Proposal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 08:48:14.0923 (UTC) FILETIME=[1078F1B0:01C4A14A] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 09:49:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:47:27 +0100 > >The numbering of dragons is a serious matter > >All objects in the game shall have a reference number. Reference >numbers shall be unique over the lifetime of the game. Any object >without a Reference number shall be assigned one. By default the >Reference number assigned shall be the smallest unused positive >integer (excepting zero). That's going to get horribly confused with the numbering of Rules. Perhaps start objects at 1000 or so, or give them non-integral numbers. And what's an object? JJ _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From mikec@mxtelecom.com Thu Sep 23 10:16:37 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAPiP-0004vd-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:16:37 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:56145 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAPiK-00081i-45 (return-path mikec@mxtelecom.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:16:32 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CAPiE-0001e5-BG for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:16:26 +0100 Message-ID: <415293D5.7060306@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] and for sanity's sake References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 10:21:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:13:57 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > I propose the following change to the rules: > > ========== > Alter the text of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular change to the rules exists when > one entity named on the List of Voters proposes the change to all other > entities named on the List of Voters and obtains unambiguous consent to > that change from each such entity. > > to: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity > named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all > other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent > to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of > Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus > of Opinion has been reached. ========== > Aye > ========== > Rule of Girls > > Notices of Consensus are considered to be printed on coloured paper. Any > electronic document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus is only > deemed to be so if it clearly describes what colour paper it is printed > on. ========== > > adam Aye Mike From mikec@mxtelecom.com Thu Sep 23 10:18:39 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAPkN-00050T-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:18:39 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:56161 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAPjh-00081b-Kx (return-path mikec@mxtelecom.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:17:57 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CAPja-0001fe-Pm for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:17:50 +0100 Message-ID: <4152942B.8060906@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Three proposals References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 10:21:04 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:15:23 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > I would like to propose three changes, each of which creates a new rule: > > ============================================== > Rule of Self-Image > > The game shall have a name, which will be "Terrapin Nomic". > ============================================== Aye > Rule of Conflict > > If a Judgement Procedure as defined by the rules determines that two or > more rules are in conflict and that it it not clear from the rules which > of them should take precedence, the entity which initiated that > Judgement Procedure may create and publically present a Conflict > Resolution Roadmap. > > A Conflict Resolution Roadmap is a document which describes changes to > the rules intended solely to remove the conflict in question. Once a CRR > has been presented, the changes it describes will take effect on the > rules. Any changes described by a Conflict Resolution Roadmap which have > effects other than to resolve the conflict the Roadmap was created to > address will not be applied and the creator of the Roadmap will be > guilty of the crime of Deviousness. > ============================================== Aye And There Shall Be No > Lizardmen > > Any entity which is a member of the List of Voters may cause itself to > be immediately removed from the List of Voters by publically announcing > itself to be a lizardman from Antares IV. The entity in question is > encouraged to use this opportunity to mock the puny humans for their > pathetic inability to see the truth until it was too late. > ============================================== > Aye, as a mechanism for allowing people to leave the game it's good, and fun. Mike From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 10:26:46 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAPsD-0005U4-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:26:46 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:49794) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAPsB-0002Oo-BY (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:26:43 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAPsB-0007Wh-AW for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:26:43 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: RE: [Nomic] Proposal - timing X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 10:27:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 10:26:43 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >And the clock struck thirteen > > > >A game action is any single change of the game state. > > > >Game actions are atomic (that is that nothing else can occur during > >one), simple (they consist of a single change to the game state) and > >take an infinitesimal amount of game time. > > > >Thus events always occur in sequence, never simultaneously. > > Nah, that seems to make things far too uncomplicated, and disallows the > possibility that we might want or need two things to happen at once. > Also, I don't think that 'a single change to the gamestate' is > necessarily well defined. Is that a single word change in the rules? A > single character? A single 'update state' (and if so, what's the point of > this rule?). A player making some sort of action with Entities not yet > defined? That would need clarification a lot further if we were to have > something of this sort, I think. I approve of the intent of this rule, but I agree with most of JJ's objections. I also don't like the term 'game action' referring to any change in the game state; I think 'action' implies that there is an actor, whereas this seems to also cover any changes which might happen by themselves. If you want a term for this, I suggest 'game transition'. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 10:28:29 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAPts-0005a9-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:28:28 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50180) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAPto-0002yU-8I (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:28:24 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAPto-0007sI-7A for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:28:24 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: RE: [Nomic] Proposal X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 10:29:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 10:28:24 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >The numbering of dragons is a serious matter > > > >All objects in the game shall have a reference number. Reference > >numbers shall be unique over the lifetime of the game. Any object > >without a Reference number shall be assigned one. By default the > >Reference number assigned shall be the smallest unused positive > >integer (excepting zero). > > That's going to get horribly confused with the numbering of Rules. > Perhaps start objects at 1000 or so, or give them non-integral numbers. > And what's an object? All good objections, particularly the last one. There's no definition of what's an 'object in the game' - does it refer only to things with no extranomic reality? Any objects, such as players, who might interact with the game? Do you intend for, eg, the List of Voters to have a reference number? adam From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 10:39:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAQ4I-00068g-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:39:14 +0100 Received: from bay24-f12.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.62]:4788 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAQ4D-0005w0-6e (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:39:09 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 02:39:02 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:38:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: [Nomic] Numbering Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 09:39:02.0180 (UTC) FILETIME=[28C77640:01C4A151] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 10:40:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:38:10 +0100 Proposal: Create a Rule named as follows: ==========On the Numbering of Proposals Each proposal shall be numbered by its proposer. These numbers shall be sequential integers beginning from 1 for the first proposal after this rule. Counter-proposals to a proposal N should be numbered Na, Nb, Nc etc. This would hopefully make it easier to find and respond to and refer to all the proposals. Proposals from before this rule is introduced could be back-numbered 0, -1, -2 if desired, or we could start from a different number if desired. Basic concept, really. JJ _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 10:40:04 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAQ56-0006CQ-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:40:04 +0100 Received: from bay24-f13.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.63]:2935 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAQ4F-0005v0-40 (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:39:11 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 02:39:00 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:38:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 09:39:00.0572 (UTC) FILETIME=[27D219C0:01C4A151] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] [Nomic] Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 10:41:03 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:38:01 +0100 Proposal: Create a Rule named as follows: ==========On the Numbering of Proposals Each proposal shall be numbered by its proposer. These numbers shall be sequential integers beginning from 1 for the first proposal after this rule. Counter-proposals to a proposal N should be numbered Na, Nb, Nc etc. This would hopefully make it easier to find and respond to and refer to all the proposals. Proposals from before this rule is introduced could be back-numbered 0, -1, -2 if desired, or we could start from a different number if desired. Basic concept, really. JJ _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 10:49:34 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAQEG-0006me-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:49:32 +0100 Received: from bay24-f5.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.55]:3801 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAQEB-0000S2-B3 (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:49:27 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 02:49:20 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:48:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] [Nomic] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 09:49:20.0745 (UTC) FILETIME=[9978FD90:01C4A152] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 10:50:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:48:23 +0100 Oooh, how did I manage that? Sorry, folks. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 10:50:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAQEp-0006qk-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:50:07 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:55429) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAQEm-0000dc-Uc (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:50:04 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAQEm-0003ud-TM for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:50:04 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Numbering X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 10:51:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 10:50:04 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > ==========On the Numbering of Proposals Each proposal shall be numbered > by its proposer. These numbers shall be sequential integers beginning > from 1 for the first proposal after this rule. Counter-proposals to a > proposal N should be numbered Na, Nb, Nc etc. What happens if two people compose messages to the list at the same time and end up duplicating a proposal number? adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 10:51:55 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAQGZ-0006wz-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:51:55 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:55760) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAQGN-000222-7m (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:51:43 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAQGN-0004HI-6o for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:51:43 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] 100! Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 10:52:03 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 10:51:43 +0100 I believe this to be the hundredth post to the nomic-talk mailing list. Yay me! It's also the fortieth post made by me; of the other sixty, Martin is in the lead with 17, followed by Jonathan, Stuart and JJ, who have all made 12. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 10:54:40 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAQJE-00074I-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:54:40 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:56438) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAQJ8-0005wl-Pe (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:54:34 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAQJ8-0004so-Ob for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:54:34 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] 100! X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 10:55:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 10:54:34 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > I believe this to be the hundredth post to the nomic-talk mailing list. > Yay me! Except no, because JJ sent off a quick reply to his double-post while I was writing this. Dammit. adam From mikec@mxtelecom.com Thu Sep 23 11:19:16 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAQh2-0008Ee-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:19:16 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:57076 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAQgz-0000l8-0u (return-path mikec@mxtelecom.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:19:13 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CAQgt-0002pz-B8 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:19:07 +0100 Message-ID: <4152A287.5010204@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 11:20:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:16:39 +0100 John-Joseph Wilks wrote: >> >> Here are my current standings and opinions on each of them, since we >> seem to have something approaching a summary going: >> >>> 1. Remove all text after the word 'world' from Rule 3, The List of >>> Voters, since it is no longer necessary now the game exists. On this >>> I vote Aye. >> >> Aye >> >>> 2. The Rule of Autoadoption. I reserve my vote on this, pending >>> discussion on whether we really want people to be able to arbitrarily >>> join without the notification or consent of any of the current >>> players, which I suggest may not be a good idea. Perhaps a simple >>> majority of the game consenting? >> >> Has this been subsumed? >> >>> 3. The Rule of Nicknames: >>> I vote aye to this in the current form. >>> Aye >>> 4. The Rule of Structured Names, with the proviso for rules mentioned >>> during proposals included. Aye. >> Aye >> >>> 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent: I counterpropose this rule in the >>> following form: A player shall be deemed to have consented to a >>> proposed change to the Rules if all of the following hold: a) The >>> proposal was made at least 48 hours ago. b) They have sent at least >>> one message to the mailing list during that time. c) They have not >>> explicitly expressed that they do not consent for that change to >>> enter the gamestate. >> Nay, for reasons stated by someone else. >>> 6: The Law of Lexicography >>> Aye. >>> We can argue about who has to keep it up to date later :) >> Aye. >> >>> 7: The Rule of Dispute Resolution Nay, I'm afraid, I don't think the >>> game has time for that sort of process, and a majority of that form >>> is unlikely to work nicely. We do need something to do this, but I'm >>> not sure that's the way. A random selection of judge might work >>> better, or the player on the lowest number of points, should we ever >>> get a points system. >> >> Nay. >> >>> 8. The Rule of Plausible Deniability. >>> Aye. >> Nay, once a proposal is introduced it should remain unless demonstrated to cause a contradiction or paradox. >>> I also propose the following: >>> >>> N. The Existence of the Committee. There shall exist a Committee, >>> which shall contain a number of Posts. Each Post shall consist of a >>> Title, which can be assigned a member of the List of Players, and a >>> list of duties which the member holding that Post shall perform. The >>> list of Posts follows: >> >> >> In essence, I approve. However, I prsent the following (short) list of >> objections: >> >> * There is no List of Players, only a List of Voters. If people think >> the two should be synonymous, fine, but right now we're still open to >> the possibility that there can be a separate list of people who want >> to interact with the game in other ways but not vote, or people who >> want to vote but nothing else. > > I agree with this analysis. Mike From mikec@mxtelecom.com Thu Sep 23 11:43:53 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAR4r-0000n7-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:43:53 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:57950 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAR4l-00007m-5H (return-path mikec@mxtelecom.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:43:47 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CAR4d-0003N4-3s for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:43:39 +0100 Message-ID: <4152A847.7030100@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposals: "Keeping up with the Nomeses" and "I'm Not A Window Cleaner" Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 11:44:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:41:11 +0100 ...as opposed to the Joneses, obviously. Anyhoo, I'm getting confused with this - poor threading, poor topicing of details... so: I propose: ---- Keeping up with the Nomeses There shall be a role entitled "Data Integrity Consultant" to be filled by someone who is to investigate an automatic on-line method of storing and cataloguing Proposals, Counter-Proposals and Consent (which ought to be less confusing than at present). This role can later be incorporated into a Committee post if such a body is created. ---- and ---- I'm Not A Window Cleaner The Entity Mike Cripps shall be the first Data Integrity Consultant ---- Mike From mml27@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 12:32:29 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CARpt-0003Kc-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:32:29 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50708) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CARpn-0006CS-JQ (return-path mml27@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:32:23 +0100 Received: from mml27 (helo=localhost) by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CARb9-0005RM-Vf for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:17:15 +0100 From: "M.M. Lester" X-X-Sender: mml27@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals: "Keeping up with the Nomeses" and "I'm Not A Window Cleaner" In-Reply-To: <4152A847.7030100@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <4152A847.7030100@mxtelecom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 12:33:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:17:15 +0100 (BST) > ---- > Keeping up with the Nomeses > > There shall be a role entitled "Data Integrity Consultant" to be filled by > someone who is to investigate an automatic on-line method of storing and > cataloguing Proposals, Counter-Proposals and Consent (which ought to be less > confusing than at present). This role can later be incorporated into a > Committee post if such a body is created. > ---- I like the idea, although I doubt anyone will actually do anything useful in this position. Do we have a concept of a "role" within the game? I think "present" should be replaced with something like "the time when this rule comes into force" so that we don't require continual improvement. > ---- > I'm Not A Window Cleaner > > The Entity Mike Cripps shall be the first Data Integrity Consultant > ---- > I agree. I propose the following: --- When I'm Cleaning Windows Mike Cripps shall be the second Data Integrity Consultant. --- --- First Postman gets the Sack The first Data Integrity Consultant shall hold the role of Data Integrity Consultant for a period not exceeding the time that elapsed or elapses between the proposal that there should be a Data Integrity Consultant being made and that proposal being accepted. --- Both these proposals are on orange paper. I agree to the Rule of Girls and the rule about posting a Notice of Consent. Maz. (Woo, FIRST POST!!!) From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 13:17:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CASX6-0005kQ-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:17:08 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:59376) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CASX4-0002Ec-E4 (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:17:06 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CASX4-0000Lp-DB for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:17:06 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: <1095897681.3599.63.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095897681.3599.63.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 13:18:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 13:17:06 +0100 > Stealing Martin's email using JJ's handy-dandy Summary-O-Stuff: > > > The following proposals appear to be around (in no particular order): > > > > 1. Remove all text after the word 'world' from Rule 3, The List of > > Voters, since it is no longer necessary now the game exists. > Aye, although I see no reason to do so, other than one of neatness. > > > 2. The Rule of Autoadoption. > I have no problem with this, although JJ's reservations about allowing > random idiots in is valid, maybe a vetting process would need putting in > as well (or a way of removing voters we really don't like.) > > > 3. The Rule of Nicknames: > Sounds fine to me. > > > 4. The Rule of Structured Names, with the proviso for rules mentioned > > during proposals included. > If I remember what this was, I might have reservations, but I'm fine > with it if it does what I think it does. > > > 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent: I counterpropose this rule in the > > following form: A player shall be deemed to have consented to a > > proposed change to the Rules if all of the following hold: a) The > > proposal was made at least 48 hours ago. b) They have sent at least one > > message to the mailing list during that time. c) They have not > > explicitly expressed that they do not consent for that change to enter > > the gamestate. Rather than attempt to modify JJ's proposal into what mine says... why not simply ratify mine instead? -- okay, I said 24 hours, but I didn't want to argue with that particularly. Anyway, I don't really care who's wordnig we use, so long as it does what I said, or what martin says JJ's proposal should say. > > 6: The Law of Lexicography Do we really need this? - I'll sheep if everyone else votes yes. > > 7: The Rule of Dispute Resolution Unless Stumo fixes the errors I pointed out to him I'll vote nay. > > > 8. The Rule of Plausible Deniability. As I said before, Nope. I don't like this. If you propose a rule, you should be stuck with it (preferably in the way that I phrased the rule of assumed consent.) > > > N. The Existence of the Committee. There shall exist a Committee, > > which shall contain a number of Posts. Each Post shall consist of a > > Title, which can be assigned a member of the List of Players, and a > > list of duties which the member holding that Post shall perform. The > > list of Posts follows: > No thanks. This makes all the players different in fairly immutable ways. > David _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 13:28:42 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CASiG-0006YG-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:28:40 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:33512) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CASiD-0000ao-FI (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:28:37 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CASiD-0002YM-EP for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:28:37 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Complete annihilation X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: <4152109B.3040705@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <1095895213.3599.46.camel@mewo2> <4152109B.3040705@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 13:29:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 13:28:37 +0100 I agree in full with martin's "exception that proves the" rule. I don't agree with stumo's Puff of logic rule, nicely named though it is, because it entirely prevents paradoxes, and I counter propose the following rule. The "complete annihilation" rule. Any voter discovering a paradox within the rules may suggest a "patch" under rule 2. "mutability of the rules." i.e. a rule which is put in play for the specific purpose of resolving this paradox by whatever means are necessary. This rule and the "mutability of the rules" rule override any and all rules causing said paradox until such a time as a valid patch is ratified by the other players. Should thirteen paradoxes be discovered to exist simultaneously, the nomic game ends, and the voters must lament having destroyed the universe by trying to be too clever. On Sep 23 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > > On Sep 23 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > > > >> --- > >> The "Exception That Proves The" Rule > >> > >> A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule > >> by name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, > >> except those which mention it by name. --- > > > > > > I'll consent to this proposal. Although I note that a rule only has to > > mention another rule to be allowed to override it, not state that it is > > overriding it, which could lead to some amusing loopholes ... > > > > > I also consent, and suggest the following as a partner: > > The "disappeared in a puff of logic" Rule > > If a change to the rules is about to be, or has been, made under the > "Mutability of the Rules" rule, and someone can demonstrate that this > interacts with existing rules to give contradictory behaviour, then the > rules do not change and the change becomes "pending". If at some point > in the future a "pending" rule change does not have contradictory > behaviour, it becomes part of the ruleset. This explicitly overrides the > "Mutability of the Rules" rule. > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 13:42:26 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CASva-0007Lb-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:42:26 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:46813) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CASvO-0000o0-Bo (return-path stjm2@cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:42:14 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CASvN-00043j-U3 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:42:14 +0000 Message-ID: <4152C4AF.7040006@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals: "Keeping up with the Nomeses" and "I'm Not A Window Cleaner" References: <4152A847.7030100@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: <4152A847.7030100@mxtelecom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 13:43:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:42:23 +0100 Mike Cripps wrote: > ...as opposed to the Joneses, obviously. > > Anyhoo, I'm getting confused with this - poor threading, poor topicing > of details... so: > > I propose: > ---- > Keeping up with the Nomeses > > There shall be a role entitled "Data Integrity Consultant" to be filled > by someone who is to investigate an automatic on-line method of storing > and cataloguing Proposals, Counter-Proposals and Consent (which ought to > be less confusing than at present). This role can later be incorporated > into a Committee post if such a body is created. > ---- > > and > > ---- > I'm Not A Window Cleaner > > The Entity Mike Cripps shall be the first Data Integrity Consultant > ---- > > Mike > > It's a good idea, I was wondering about doing some kind of script that did this. Mike, do you mind if I have a quick play to put stuff together (I presume while you're at work you can't do much) Oh, and consent to both the above rules > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 13:49:42 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAT2c-0007jC-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:49:42 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:37514) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAT2Y-00071Y-SG (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:49:38 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAT2Y-0006dA-RH for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:49:38 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Three proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 13:50:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 13:49:38 +0100 I agree to all three of these rules, and modify my complete annihilation proposal to read as follows: "Should thirteen paradoxes be discovered to exist simultaneously, the nomic game ends, and the voters must lament having destroyed the universe by trying to be too clever." On Sep 23 2004, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > I would like to propose three changes, each of which creates a new rule: > > ============================================== > Rule of Self-Image > > The game shall have a name, which will be "Terrapin Nomic". > ============================================== > Rule of Conflict > > If a Judgement Procedure as defined by the rules determines that two or > more rules are in conflict and that it it not clear from the rules which > of them should take precedence, the entity which initiated that Judgement > Procedure may create and publically present a Conflict Resolution > Roadmap. > > A Conflict Resolution Roadmap is a document which describes changes to > the rules intended solely to remove the conflict in question. Once a CRR > has been presented, the changes it describes will take effect on the > rules. Any changes described by a Conflict Resolution Roadmap which have > effects other than to resolve the conflict the Roadmap was created to > address will not be applied and the creator of the Roadmap will be guilty > of the crime of Deviousness. > ============================================== And There Shall Be No > Lizardmen > > Any entity which is a member of the List of Voters may cause itself to > be immediately removed from the List of Voters by publically announcing > itself to be a lizardman from Antares IV. The entity in question is > encouraged to use this opportunity to mock the puny humans for their > pathetic inability to see the truth until it was too late. > ============================================== > > adam > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 13:54:02 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAT6o-0007vs-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:54:02 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:38396) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAT6l-0003ye-Mn (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:53:59 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAT6l-0007RK-Lf for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:53:59 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals: "Keeping up with the Nomeses" and "I'm Not A Window Cleaner" X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: <4152A847.7030100@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <4152A847.7030100@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 13:55:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 13:53:59 +0100 I consent to both, assuming that when they are actually ratified, that Mike actually fills the post via some mechanism that JJ is complaining about a lack of. On Sep 23 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > ...as opposed to the Joneses, obviously. > > Anyhoo, I'm getting confused with this - poor threading, poor topicing > of details... so: > > I propose: > ---- > Keeping up with the Nomeses > > There shall be a role entitled "Data Integrity Consultant" to be filled > by someone who is to investigate an automatic on-line method of storing > and cataloguing Proposals, Counter-Proposals and Consent (which ought to > be less confusing than at present). This role can later be incorporated > into a Committee post if such a body is created. > ---- > > and > > ---- > I'm Not A Window Cleaner > > The Entity Mike Cripps shall be the first Data Integrity Consultant > ---- > > Mike > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From mml27@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 13:54:38 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAT7O-0007x3-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:54:38 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:38529) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAT7H-0004eJ-VI (return-path mml27@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:54:32 +0100 Received: from mml27 (helo=localhost) by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAT7H-0007XI-UC for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:54:31 +0100 From: "M.M. Lester" X-X-Sender: mml27@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4152A847.7030100@mxtelecom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Proposal votes Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 13:55:04 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:54:31 +0100 (BST) Removal of text after "world" in Rule 3 - I agree I suppose. Rule of Nicknames or whatever it was called - yes. Rule of Structured Names - yes. Law of Lexicography - yes. I see the potential for fun here. Rule of Plausible Deniability - no. Existence of the Committee - maybe. I withhold judgement for the moment. "Exception that Proves the" Rule - yes, sounds fun. Rule of (Assumed) Consent - I will vote in favour of exactly one of these, but there are so many to choose from! I haven't decided which I favour yet. A Planet? Where Lizards Evolved from Men? - yes. The Rule of Autoadaption - yes. Maz. From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 13:56:33 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAT9F-00084e-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:56:33 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:39091) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAT97-0004jn-VC (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:56:25 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAT97-0007ss-U5 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:56:25 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] and for sanity's sake X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: <41521CDA.2040509@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <41521CDA.2040509@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 13:57:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 13:56:25 +0100 I consent to both. > Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > > I propose the following change to the rules: > > > > ========== > > Alter the text of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: > > > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular change to the rules exists when > > one entity named on the List of Voters proposes the change to all other > > entities named on the List of Voters and obtains unambiguous consent to > > that change from each such entity. > > > > to: > > > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity > > named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to > > all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous > > consent to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public > > Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which > > Consensus of Opinion has been reached. ========== > > I Consent > > > > > As such, we make people responsible for tracking the acceptance of > > their own proposals and declaring them to have passed. This also makes > > it possible for voters to veto their own proposal, simply by declining > > to post a Notice of Consensus. As it was, we had the possibility that > > everyone could consent to a proposal, but no-one might notice, and the > > proposal would technically come into efect despite no-one having had > > the faintest clue that it had done so. > > > > One more new-rule proposal before I go to bed, just for fun: > > ========== > > Rule of Girls > > > > Notices of Consensus are considered to be printed on coloured paper. > > Any electronic document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus is only > > deemed to be so if it clearly describes what colour paper it is printed > > on. ========== > > > > Right... erm, I'll get back to you > > > adam > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nomic-talk mailing list > > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 14:11:49 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CATO0-0000U1-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:11:48 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:42688) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CATNy-0001IR-2P (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:11:46 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CATNy-0002bp-1a for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:11:46 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: <4152A287.5010204@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <4152A287.5010204@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 14:12:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 14:11:45 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > >>> 8. The Rule of Plausible Deniability. > >>> Aye. > >> > > Nay, once a proposal is introduced it should remain unless demonstrated > to cause a contradiction or paradox. Um, I was understanding this to mean that a proposal can be retracted by the original proposer *before* it's passed into the rules. Was this what you were referring to? Of course, pass my amendment to Rule 4 and it becomes redundant anyway. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 14:14:58 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CATR4-0000by-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:14:58 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:43603) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CATR2-0002z6-Di (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:14:56 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CATR2-0003Hu-CI for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:14:56 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals: "Keeping up with the Nomeses" and "I'm Not A Window Cleaner" X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: <4152A847.7030100@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <4152A847.7030100@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 14:15:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 14:14:56 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > I propose: > ---- > Keeping up with the Nomeses > > There shall be a role entitled "Data Integrity Consultant" to be filled > by someone who is to investigate an automatic on-line method of storing > and cataloguing Proposals, Counter-Proposals and Consent (which ought to > be less confusing than at present). This role can later be incorporated > into a Committee post if such a body is created. > ---- Looks good to me, but the proposal process hasn't really been formalised by the rules yet anyway, and I'm wondering whether we should get the details down in writing before we start appointing people to track administrivia. On the other hand, the Data Integrity Consultant could get craking right away and eir role could be redefined later if the process is changed. Thoughts? adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 14:18:36 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CATUa-0000nO-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:18:36 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:44500) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CATUW-0003NA-Kh (return-path amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:18:32 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CATUW-00041n-JP for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:18:32 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Complete annihilation X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1095895213.3599.46.camel@mewo2> <4152109B.3040705@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 14:19:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 14:18:32 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, David (Birch) wrote: > The "complete annihilation" rule. > > Any voter discovering a paradox within the rules may suggest a "patch" > under rule 2. "mutability of the rules." i.e. a rule which is put in play > for the specific purpose of resolving this paradox by whatever means are > necessary. This rule and the "mutability of the rules" rule override any > and all rules causing said paradox until such a time as a valid patch is > ratified by the other players. Should thirteen paradoxes be discovered to > exist simultaneously, the nomic game ends, and the voters must lament > having destroyed the universe by trying to be too clever. I note that I've already proposed this rule, except the references are to middle eastern politics rather than chrononauts. Also, I'm not consenting to any rule which requires something to be ratified by all the other players. adam From mml27@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 15:18:41 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAUQj-0003y8-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:18:41 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:59412) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAUQh-0004wb-0R (return-path mml27@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:18:39 +0100 Received: from mml27 (helo=localhost) by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAUQg-000191-Va for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:18:38 +0100 From: "M.M. Lester" X-X-Sender: mml27@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Winning the game In-Reply-To: <415210E6.90800@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <1095896695.3599.52.camel@mewo2> <415210E6.90800@cam.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 15:19:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:18:38 +0100 (BST) On Thu, 23 Sep 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > I propose that I just lost "The Game" > I agree with Stumo's proposal that he lost "The Game". Maz. From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 15:34:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAUfq-0004vR-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:34:18 +0100 Received: from bay24-f8.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.58]:4036 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAUfl-0000n2-9O (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:34:13 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 07:34:02 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:33:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 14:34:02.0099 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EC0C430:01C4A17A] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=1.173, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: s Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 15:35:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:33:45 +0100 The following proposals appear to exist, in these forms, and I believe these to be the votes people have cast on them, though I'm not bothering to list ones completely rewritten or with more than a couple of Nays. 1. Remove all text after the word 'world' from Rule 3, List of Voters. Ayes: Maz, JJ, Mike, Stumo, adam, Martin, dok Nays: 2: Create a rule called the Rule of Handles, with the following text: There shall be a list of {real name, pseudonym} pairs; with one entry for each member of the List of Voters.  Initially the pseudonym entry in each pair will be unset.  At any time a player with an unset pseudonym may set their pseudonym to any legal string, provided that that string isn't lexically equivalent to any game entity, player's real name or player's pseudonym.  If a player has a non-null pseudonym set then their pseudonym and their real name may be used interchangably within the context of the game. This List shall be called the List of Handles. Ayes: Maz, JJ, Mike, Madeleine, Martin, dok, Stumo, adam 3. Create a rule called the Rule of Structured Names, with the following text: Each rule shall have a name that is a string of the form 'Rule X, Y'. In this string, X stands for an integer which is assigned to the rule when it is added to the ruleset and is one greater than the largest integer currently assigned to any rule. Y shall stand for any string of alphanumeric characters, spaces and punctuation which is distinct up to changes to case and spacing from the Y of any other rule in the rules. X is assigned only when a rule is added to the rules; Y must be specified along with the text of the rule when it is first proposed. All rules, when referring to other rules, must use the full name of the rule in question, excepting the following case: Where a rule is still a proposal, it may be referred to only by its alphanumeric designator Y. If that rule is then adopted, the gamestate shall be modified so that all references to that rule reference the full name instead. When this rule is brought into effect, the names of all existing rules shall be modified to bring them into line with this format. Ayes: Maz, JJ, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, adam, Martin, dok Nays: 4. The Law of Lizardmen. This is a pair of linked suggestions taking one the following form: The Rule of Autoadoption: Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: 1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). 2) They are not already in the List of Voters. 3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. c) They wish to join the game. Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game.  Their consent is not needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration at the time of their joining the game. A Planet? Where Lizards evolved from Men? All entities eligible to be members of the List Of Voters (Which shall be all living extranomic entities of the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens) shall be considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV until a member of the List Of Voters states "I do not believe is a lizardman from Antares IV", where "" is to be replaced with the name of the entity in question. No existing member of the List Of Voters is a lizardman from Antares IV. Ayes: Martin, adam, Maz, JJ 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent The current form of this is as follows: A player shall be considered to have given their consent to a proposal if the following are true: The proposal was suggested more than 72 hours ago, and they haven't explicitly expressed a lack of consent. Ayes: Maz, JJ 6: The Law of Lexicography There shall be a dictionary, called the Definitions Dictionary, which shall be kept up-to-date with all game terms.  The definitions given in the definitions dictionary superceed the usual english meaning of terms; but are overriden by explicit rules wording. Ayes: Maz, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, Martin Not well enough defined: JJ, adam 7:The Existence of the Council There shall exist the Great Council of the Elder Turtles, which shall contain a number of Posts. Each Post shall consist of a Title, which can be assigned a member of the List of Voters, and a list of duties which the member holding that Post should perform. Failure on the part of that member to perform these duties shall make them guilty of the crime of (This proposal has been reworded to remove some of the objections) Aye: JJ Withheld: Maz, Stumo, Martin Nay: ahdok (But surely we're going to need some way to assign things to people? ed.) 8: The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, except those which mention it by name. Ayes: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok 9: Alter the text of Rule 4, Concensus of Opinion from: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular change to the rules exists when one entity named on the List of Voters proposes the change to all other entities named on the List of Voters and obtains unambiguous consent to that change from each such entity. to: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. Ayes: JJ, dok, adam, Mike, Stumo, Martin, Maz 10: Create a rule as follows, called the Rule of Girls: Notices of Consensus are considered to be printed on coloured paper. Any electronic document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus is only deemed to be so if it clearly describes what colour paper it is printed on. Ayes: dok, JJ, adam, Mike, Martin, Maz 11: The Rule of Self-Image The game shall have a name, which shall be "Terrapin Nomic". Ayes: JJ, adam, dok, Mike, Martin 12: Create a rule named The Rule of Conflict with the following text: If a Judgement Procedure as defined by the rules determines that two or more rules are in conflict and that it it not clear from the rules which of them should take precedence, the entity which initiated that Judgement Procedure may create and publically present a Conflict Resolution Roadmap. A Conflict Resolution Roadmap is a document which describes changes to the rules intended solely to remove the conflict in question. Once a CRR has been presented, the changes it describes will take effect on the rules. Any changes described by a Conflict Resolution Roadmap which have effects other than to resolve the conflict the Roadmap was created to address will not be applied and the creator of the Roadmap will be guilty of the crime of Deviousness. Ayes: JJ, dok, adam, Mike, Stumo, Martin 13: Create a rule named And There Shall Be No Lizardmen, with the following text: Any entity which is a member of the List of Voters may cause itself to be immediately removed from the List of Voters by publically announcing itself to be a lizardman from Antares IV. The entity in question is encouraged to use this opportunity to mock the puny humans for their pathetic inability to see the truth until it was too late. Ayes: JJ, dok, adam, Mike, Stumo, Martin 14: The Law of Total Annihilation "Should thirteen paradoxes be discovered to exist simultaneously, the nomic game ends, and the voters must lament having destroyed the universe by trying to be too clever." Ayes: dok Nay: JJ (pending description of how a paradox is actually defined, especially whether you want it to be only within the rules) 15: Create a rule named Keeping Up With the Nomeses, with the following text: There shall be a role entitled "Data Integrity Consultant" to be filled by a member of the List of Voters, who is to investigate an automatic on-line method of storing and cataloguing Proposals, Counter-Proposals and Consent.  This role can later be incorporated into a Committee post if such a body is created. Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok 16: I'm Not a Window Cleaner The entity Mike Cripps shall be the first holder of the role of Data Integrity Consultant, and shall be immediately appointed to that role if it exists when this rule is passed, assuming in both cases that the entity Mike Cripps is a member of the List of Voters Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok 17: I propose that I just lost "The Game" Ayes: Stumo, Maz, JJ 18: On the Numbering of Proposals Each proposal shall be numbered by its proposer. These numbers shall be sequential integers beginning from 1 for the first proposal after this rule. Counter-proposals to a proposal N should be numbered Na, Nb, Nc etc. Nay: adam (on the basis that two proposals may be cross-posted with the same number. Workaround counterproposals are invited) _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 15:37:01 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAUiT-00055O-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:37:01 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:35210) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAUiM-0001as-Vp (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:36:55 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAUiM-0005Gn-Uq for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:36:54 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Complete annihilation X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1095895213.3599.46.camel@mewo2> <4152109B.3040705@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 15:38:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 15:36:54 +0100 I've later removed all text before "should thirteen paradoxes..." since your proposal has more of a "damn bureaucrats" feel to it than mine does. I still want to be able to annihilate the universe. On Sep 23 2004, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 23 2004, David (Birch) wrote: > > > The "complete annihilation" rule. > > > > Any voter discovering a paradox within the rules may suggest a "patch" > > under rule 2. "mutability of the rules." i.e. a rule which is put in > > play for the specific purpose of resolving this paradox by whatever > > means are necessary. This rule and the "mutability of the rules" rule > > override any and all rules causing said paradox until such a time as a > > valid patch is ratified by the other players. Should thirteen paradoxes > > be discovered to exist simultaneously, the nomic game ends, and the > > voters must lament having destroyed the universe by trying to be too > > clever. > > I note that I've already proposed this rule, except the references are to > middle eastern politics rather than chrononauts. Also, I'm not consenting > to any rule which requires something to be ratified by all the other > players. > > adam > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From happycarrie@gmail.com Thu Sep 23 15:52:55 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAUxr-0005oi-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:52:55 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.200]:27681 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAUxf-000889-2F (return-path happycarrie@gmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:52:43 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v18so2864922rnb for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 07:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.179.69 with SMTP id b69mr223914rnf; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 07:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.5 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 07:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 15:53:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:52:35 +0100 Okay, this seems to be the easiest way for me to respond to all that has happened so far... On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:33:45 +0100, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > The following proposals appear to exist, in these forms, and I believe these > to be the votes people have cast on them, though I'm not bothering to list > ones completely rewritten or with more than a couple of Nays. > > 1. Remove all text after the word 'world' from Rule 3, List of Voters. > > Ayes: Maz, JJ, Mike, Stumo, adam, Martin, dok > Nays: > Aye > 2: Create a rule called the Rule of Handles, with the following text: > There shall be a list of {real name, pseudonym} pairs; with one > entry for each member of the List of Voters. Initially the pseudonym entry > in > each pair will be unset. At any time a player with an unset pseudonym > may set their pseudonym to any legal string, provided that that string > isn't lexically equivalent to any game entity, player's real name or > player's pseudonym. If a player has a non-null pseudonym set then > their pseudonym and their real name may be used interchangably within > the context of the game. This List shall be called the List of Handles. > > Ayes: Maz, JJ, Mike, Madeleine, Martin, dok, Stumo, adam Aye > > 3. Create a rule called the Rule of Structured Names, with the following > text: > Each rule shall have a name that is a string of the form 'Rule X, Y'. In > this string, X stands for an integer which is assigned to the rule when it > is added to the ruleset and is one greater than the largest integer > currently assigned to any rule. Y shall stand for any string of > alphanumeric characters, spaces and punctuation which is distinct up to > changes to case and spacing from the Y of any other rule in the rules. > > X is assigned only when a rule is added to the rules; Y must be specified > along with the text of the rule when it is first proposed. All rules, when > referring to other rules, must use the full name of the rule in question, > excepting the following case: Where a rule is still a proposal, it may be > referred to only by its alphanumeric designator Y. If that rule is then > adopted, the gamestate shall be modified so that all references to that rule > reference the full name instead. > When this rule is brought into effect, the names of all existing rules shall > be modified to bring them into line with this format. > > Ayes: Maz, JJ, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, adam, Martin, dok > Nays: Aye > > 4. The Law of Lizardmen. This is a pair of linked suggestions taking one the > following form: > The Rule of Autoadoption: > > Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters > may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: > 1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). > 2) They are not already in the List of Voters. > 3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: > a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. > b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. > c) They wish to join the game. > Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of > Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game. Their consent is not > needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration > at the time of their joining the game. > > A Planet? Where Lizards evolved from Men? > All entities eligible to be members of the List Of Voters (Which shall be > all living extranomic entities of the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens) shall be > considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV until a member of the List Of > Voters states "I do not believe is a lizardman from > Antares IV", where "" is to be replaced with the name of the > entity in question. No existing member of the List Of Voters is a lizardman > from Antares IV. > > Ayes: Martin, adam, Maz, JJ > Aye (I like this rule, its fun) > 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent > The current form of this is as follows: > A player shall be considered to have given their consent to a proposal if > the following are true: > The proposal was suggested more than 72 hours ago, and they haven't > explicitly expressed a lack of consent. > Ayes: Maz, JJ Aye (In the interst of keeping the game moving, people are unlikly to forget to object, only to give their consent) > > 6: The Law of Lexicography > There shall be a dictionary, called the Definitions Dictionary, which > shall be kept up-to-date with all game terms. The definitions given > in the definitions dictionary superceed the usual english meaning of > terms; but are overriden by explicit rules wording. > > Ayes: Maz, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, Martin > Not well enough defined: JJ, adam > Hmmm... I quite like this rule as I tend to get confused by terms and a dictinary would help alot. But I see lots of problems with the way this rule is defined so I shall join the "Not well enough defined" list, though I agree with the idea. > 7:The Existence of the Council > There shall exist the Great Council of the Elder Turtles, which shall > contain a number of Posts. Each Post shall consist of a Title, which can be > assigned a member of the List of Voters, and a list of duties which the > member holding that Post should perform. Failure on the part of that member > to perform these duties shall make them guilty of the crime of > > (This proposal has been reworded to remove some of the objections) > > Aye: JJ > Withheld: Maz, Stumo, Martin > Nay: ahdok (But surely we're going to need some way to assign things to > people? ed.) > Aye > 8: The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: > A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by > name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, > except those which mention it by name. > > Ayes: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok > Was there not an objection along the lines of: this allows a rule to override another by mentioning it even though this maynot be necessary? If this is reworded to cover this I shall agree > 9: Alter the text of Rule 4, Concensus of Opinion from: > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular change to the rules exists when one > entity named on the List of Voters proposes the change to all other entities > named on the List of Voters and obtains unambiguous consent to that change > from each such entity. > to: > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on > the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other > entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that > proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus > to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has > been reached. > > Ayes: JJ, dok, adam, Mike, Stumo, Martin, Maz > Aye > 10: Create a rule as follows, called the Rule of Girls: > Notices of Consensus are considered to be printed on coloured paper. Any > electronic document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus is only deemed to > be so if it clearly describes what colour paper it is printed on. > > Ayes: dok, JJ, adam, Mike, Martin, Maz > Aye, aye, aye. I totally agree with this. > 11: The Rule of Self-Image > The game shall have a name, which shall be "Terrapin Nomic". > > Ayes: JJ, adam, dok, Mike, Martin Nay, I don't like that name. Although I might be persuade to change my mind if nothing better comes along. > > 12: Create a rule named The Rule of Conflict with the following text: > If a Judgement Procedure as defined by the rules determines that two or more > rules are in conflict and that it it not clear from the rules which of them > should take precedence, the entity which initiated that Judgement Procedure > may create and publically present a Conflict Resolution Roadmap. > A Conflict Resolution Roadmap is a document which describes changes to the > rules intended solely to remove the conflict in question. Once a CRR has > been presented, the changes it describes will take effect on the rules. Any > changes described by a Conflict Resolution Roadmap which have effects other > than to resolve the conflict the Roadmap was created to address will not be > applied and the creator of the Roadmap will be guilty of the crime of > Deviousness. > > Ayes: JJ, dok, adam, Mike, Stumo, Martin > Aye > 13: Create a rule named And There Shall Be No Lizardmen, with the following > text: > Any entity which is a member of the List of Voters may cause itself to be > immediately removed from the List of Voters by publically announcing itself > to be a lizardman from Antares IV. The entity in question is encouraged to > use this opportunity to mock the puny humans for their pathetic inability to > see the truth until it was too late. > > Ayes: JJ, dok, adam, Mike, Stumo, Martin > Aye > 14: The Law of Total Annihilation > "Should thirteen paradoxes be discovered to exist simultaneously, the nomic > game ends, and the voters must lament having destroyed the universe by > trying to be too clever." > > Ayes: dok > Nay: JJ (pending description of how a paradox is actually defined, > especially whether you want it to be only within the rules) Aye. > > 15: Create a rule named Keeping Up With the Nomeses, with the following > text: > There shall be a role entitled "Data Integrity Consultant" to be filled by a > member of the List of Voters, who is to investigate an automatic on-line > method of storing and cataloguing Proposals, Counter-Proposals and Consent. > This role can later be incorporated into a Committee post if such a body is > created. > > Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok > Aye (as long as its not me, to be fair I would be of little use in that role) > 16: I'm Not a Window Cleaner > The entity Mike Cripps shall be the first holder of the role of Data > Integrity Consultant, and shall be immediately appointed to that role if it > exists when this rule is passed, assuming in both cases that the entity Mike > Cripps is a member of the List of Voters > > Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok > Aye > 17: I propose that I just lost "The Game" > Ayes: Stumo, Maz, JJ > Aye > 18: On the Numbering of Proposals > Each proposal shall be numbered by its proposer. These numbers shall be > sequential integers beginning from 1 for the first proposal after this rule. > Counter-proposals to a proposal N should be numbered Na, Nb, Nc etc. > > Nay: adam (on the basis that two proposals may be cross-posted with the same > number. Workaround counterproposals are invited) > > Nay. Couldn't there be someone on the concil (if this come into being) those role it is to number the rules? Okay, that should do it. Luv Carrie _________________________________________________________________ > It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 15:53:15 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAUyB-0005qk-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:53:15 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:52987) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAUy2-0008Gr-Ei (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:53:06 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAUxz-0002iG-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:53:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAUtG-0005zr-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:48:10 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:33:45 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 15:54:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:48:09 +0100 > 6: The Law of Lexicography > There shall be a dictionary, called the Definitions Dictionary, which > shall be kept up-to-date with all game terms.  The definitions given > in the definitions dictionary superceed the usual english meaning of > terms; but are overriden by explicit rules wording. > > Ayes: Maz, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, Martin > Not well enough defined: JJ, adam How about: There shall be a dictionary, called the Definitions Dictionary.  The definitions given in the definitions dictionary superceed the usual english meaning of terms for the purposes of the game; but are overriden by explicit rules wording. > 7:The Existence of the Council > There shall exist the Great Council of the Elder Turtles, which shall > contain a number of Posts. Each Post shall consist of a Title, which can be > assigned a member of the List of Voters, and a list of duties which the > member holding that Post should perform. Failure on the part of that member > to perform these duties shall make them guilty of the crime of > > (This proposal has been reworded to remove some of the objections) > > Aye: JJ > Withheld: Maz, Stumo, Martin > Nay: ahdok (But surely we're going to need some way to assign things to > people? ed.) The crime of what? > 8: The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: > A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by > name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, > except those which mention it by name. > > Ayes: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok Aye, but what if two rules disagree, and neither overrules? > 9: Alter the text of Rule 4, Concensus of Opinion from: > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular change to the rules exists when one > entity named on the List of Voters proposes the change to all other entities > named on the List of Voters and obtains unambiguous consent to that change > from each such entity. > to: > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on > the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other > entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that > proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus > to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has > been reached. > > Ayes: JJ, dok, adam, Mike, Stumo, Martin, Maz Aye > 10: Create a rule as follows, called the Rule of Girls: > Notices of Consensus are considered to be printed on coloured paper. Any > electronic document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus is only deemed to > be so if it clearly describes what colour paper it is printed on. > > Ayes: dok, JJ, adam, Mike, Martin, Maz Aye, why not? > 11: The Rule of Self-Image > The game shall have a name, which shall be "Terrapin Nomic". > > Ayes: JJ, adam, dok, Mike, Martin Couldn't you come up with something more interesting? Aye. > 12: Create a rule named The Rule of Conflict with the following text: > If a Judgement Procedure as defined by the rules determines that two or more > rules are in conflict and that it it not clear from the rules which of them > should take precedence, the entity which initiated that Judgement Procedure > may create and publically present a Conflict Resolution Roadmap. > A Conflict Resolution Roadmap is a document which describes changes to the > rules intended solely to remove the conflict in question. Once a CRR has > been presented, the changes it describes will take effect on the rules. Any > changes described by a Conflict Resolution Roadmap which have effects other > than to resolve the conflict the Roadmap was created to address will not be > applied and the creator of the Roadmap will be guilty of the crime of > Deviousness. > > Ayes: JJ, dok, adam, Mike, Stumo, Martin Aye > 13: Create a rule named And There Shall Be No Lizardmen, with the following > text: > Any entity which is a member of the List of Voters may cause itself to be > immediately removed from the List of Voters by publically announcing itself > to be a lizardman from Antares IV. The entity in question is encouraged to > use this opportunity to mock the puny humans for their pathetic inability to > see the truth until it was too late. > > Ayes: JJ, dok, adam, Mike, Stumo, Martin Aye :) > 14: The Law of Total Annihilation > "Should thirteen paradoxes be discovered to exist simultaneously, the nomic > game ends, and the voters must lament having destroyed the universe by > trying to be too clever." > > Ayes: dok > Nay: JJ (pending description of how a paradox is actually defined, > especially whether you want it to be only within the rules) Aye > 15: Create a rule named Keeping Up With the Nomeses, with the following > text: > There shall be a role entitled "Data Integrity Consultant" to be filled by a > member of the List of Voters, who is to investigate an automatic on-line > method of storing and cataloguing Proposals, Counter-Proposals and Consent.  > This role can later be incorporated into a Committee post if such a body is > created. > > Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok Aye > > 16: I'm Not a Window Cleaner > The entity Mike Cripps shall be the first holder of the role of Data > Integrity Consultant, and shall be immediately appointed to that role if it > exists when this rule is passed, assuming in both cases that the entity Mike > Cripps is a member of the List of Voters > > Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok Aye > 17: I propose that I just lost "The Game" > Ayes: Stumo, Maz, JJ Aye > 18: On the Numbering of Proposals > Each proposal shall be numbered by its proposer. These numbers shall be > sequential integers beginning from 1 for the first proposal after this rule. > Counter-proposals to a proposal N should be numbered Na, Nb, Nc etc. > > Nay: adam (on the basis that two proposals may be cross-posted with the same > number. Workaround counterproposals are invited) > Nay, ditto. J. From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 15:54:19 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAUzC-0005uZ-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:54:18 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:39537) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAUz6-0000HR-8S (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:54:12 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAUz6-0000WS-7K for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:54:12 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Missing votes X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 15:55:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 15:54:12 +0100 I vote the following, which are missing my vote: 4 (both parts) - The law of Lizardmen, and a planet where lizards evolve from men. - Yay 5. The rule of assumed Consent. (I realise now that this is a very simple wording which accomplishes our goal.) - yay 6. Lexicography Not well enough defined. 7. I only voted nay because of the way it was worded, I prefer this, but half of it is missing. I'll withhold my vote for now. 14. I propose the phrase "in the rules" be added after the word "paradoxes" to stop JJ nitpicking. "paradox" is defined by knowing the english language. 17. I agree. 18. Nay, we're numbering rules anyway. > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 16:01:13 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAV5t-0006OH-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:01:13 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:53563) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAV5l-0002BD-1E (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:01:05 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAV5k-0003ih-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:01:04 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAV0G-00067P-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:55:24 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:48:09 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 16:02:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:55:23 +0100 Oh, and 'Aye' to 4, as well... From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 16:18:35 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAVMg-0007Zy-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:18:34 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:44741) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAVMe-0007lB-DN (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:18:32 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAVMe-0005vn-C9 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:18:32 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Aye... Feathers... X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 16:19:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 16:18:32 +0100 I propose the following two rules: 19: A lemon? Already? The entity known as "Carrie" shall redefine the meanings of "aye" and "nay" as she sees fit at midnight each day. Entities have the right to request the meanings of "yay" and "nay" from Carrie, and in return, she has the right to set simple tasks (such as "deliver this plank") that must be accomplished before said information is given. Should Carrie give contradictory information to different players, she shall be defined to be guilty of the crime of "extreme naughtiness" for 24 hours starting at the point of discovery of the deception. (note: Voters do not, of course, need to use these particular words to vote unambiguously, and may instead use "urk" and "whoopee!" or any other such words, so long as their intent is clear.) 20: The Feathers rule. Any player found quilty of the crime of "extreme naughtiness" is punishable by the punishment of tickling, and may be punished by any voter. The punishment may be administered at any time during the period that the person guilty of extreme naughtiness is defined to be guilty for. _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From mml27@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 16:21:35 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAVPa-0007nl-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:21:34 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45426) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAVPT-0000Fc-7b (return-path mml27@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:21:27 +0100 Received: from mml27 (helo=localhost) by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAVPT-0006cg-6U for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:21:27 +0100 From: "M.M. Lester" X-X-Sender: mml27@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1870869256-584279598-1095952887=:2352" X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 16:22:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:21:27 +0100 (BST) This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --1870869256-584279598-1095952887=:2352 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE More votes. > 11: The Rule of Self-Image > The game shall have a name, which shall be "Terrapin Nomic". > > Ayes: JJ, adam, dok, Mike, Martin Yes. > 12: Create a rule named The Rule of Conflict with the following text: > If a Judgement Procedure as defined by the rules determines that two or m= ore=20 > rules are in conflict and that it it not clear from the rules which of th= em=20 > should take precedence, the entity which initiated that Judgement Procedu= re=20 > may create and publically present a Conflict Resolution Roadmap. > A Conflict Resolution Roadmap is a document which describes changes to th= e=20 > rules intended solely to remove the conflict in question. Once a CRR has = been=20 > presented, the changes it describes will take effect on the rules. Any=20 > changes described by a Conflict Resolution Roadmap which have effects oth= er=20 > than to resolve the conflict the Roadmap was created to address will not = be=20 > applied and the creator of the Roadmap will be guilty of the crime of=20 > Deviousness. > > Ayes: JJ, dok, adam, Mike, Stumo, Martin > Yes. > 13: Create a rule named And There Shall Be No Lizardmen, with the followi= ng=20 > text: > Any entity which is a member of the List of Voters may cause itself to be= =20 > immediately removed from the List of Voters by publically announcing itse= lf=20 > to be a lizardman from Antares IV. The entity in question is encouraged t= o=20 > use this opportunity to mock the puny humans for their pathetic inability= to=20 > see the truth until it was too late. > > Ayes: JJ, dok, adam, Mike, Stumo, Martin Yes. > 15: Create a rule named Keeping Up With the Nomeses, with the following t= ext: > There shall be a role entitled "Data Integrity Consultant" to be filled b= y a=20 > member of the List of Voters, who is to investigate an automatic on-line= =20 > method of storing and cataloguing Proposals, Counter-Proposals and Consen= t.=A0=20 > This role can later be incorporated into a Committee post if such a body = is=20 > created. > > Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok > Yes. > > 16: I'm Not a Window Cleaner > The entity Mike Cripps shall be the first holder of the role of Data=20 > Integrity Consultant, and shall be immediately appointed to that role if = it=20 > exists when this rule is passed, assuming in both cases that the entity M= ike=20 > Cripps is a member of the List of Voters > > Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok Yes. > 18: On the Numbering of Proposals > Each proposal shall be numbered by its proposer. These numbers shall be= =20 > sequential integers beginning from 1 for the first proposal after this ru= le.=20 > Counter-proposals to a proposal N should be numbered Na, Nb, Nc etc. > > Nay: adam (on the basis that two proposals may be cross-posted with the s= ame=20 > number. Workaround counterproposals are invited) > No. Maz. --1870869256-584279598-1095952887=:2352-- From mikec@mxtelecom.com Thu Sep 23 16:23:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAVR5-0007sg-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:23:07 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:38648 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAVQz-0000RC-BK (return-path mikec@mxtelecom.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:23:01 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CAVQq-0006aT-QC for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:22:52 +0100 Message-ID: <4152E9CE.1090607@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Aye... Feathers... References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 16:24:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:20:46 +0100 David (Birch) wrote: > I propose the following two rules: > > 19: A lemon? Already? > > The entity known as "Carrie" shall redefine the meanings of "aye" and > "nay" as she sees fit at midnight each day. Entities have the right to > request the meanings of "yay" and "nay" from Carrie, and in return, she > has the right to set simple tasks (such as "deliver this plank") that > must be accomplished before said information is given. Should Carrie > give contradictory information to different players, she shall be > defined to be guilty of the crime of "extreme naughtiness" for 24 hours > starting at the point of discovery of the deception. > > (note: Voters do not, of course, need to use these particular words to > vote unambiguously, and may instead use "urk" and "whoopee!" or any > other such words, so long as their intent is clear.) Vote Nay > > 20: The Feathers rule. Any player found quilty of the crime of "extreme > naughtiness" is punishable by the punishment of tickling, and may be > punished by any voter. The punishment may be administered at any time > during the period that the person guilty of extreme naughtiness is > defined to be guilty for. > > Nay - unworkable (I'm in London...) > _______________________________________________ > >> Nomic-talk mailing list >> Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk >> > From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 16:39:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAVga-0000RM-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:39:08 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50903) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAVgX-00056X-KX (return-path dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:39:05 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAVgX-0002JJ-Ja for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:39:05 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Aye... Feathers... X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: <4152E9CE.1090607@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <4152E9CE.1090607@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 16:40:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 16:39:05 +0100 I've fixed the typo, and added "Oliver" to teh entity "Carrie" and point out to Scotsman that 1) Any voter may tickle Carrie as her punishment, and this is workable as she's in the same place as Adam often (And she'll all be in Cam soon enough.) - AND that you can tickle Carrie through the internet with varying effect. I also point out that the lemon proposal doesn't affect the gamestate other than to force people to say something other than "aye" - which is hardly a grievous crime. :) > David (Birch) wrote: > > I propose the following two rules: > > > > 19: A lemon? Already? > > > > The entity known as "Carrie Oliver" shall redefine the meanings of > > "aye" and "nay" as she sees fit at midnight each day. Entities have the > > right to request the meanings of "aye" and "nay" from "Carrie Oliver", > > and in return, she has the right to set simple tasks (such as "deliver > > this plank") that must be accomplished before said information is > > given. Should Carrie give contradictory information to different > > players, she shall be defined to be guilty of the crime of "extreme > > naughtiness" for 24 hours starting at the point of discovery of the > > deception. > > > > (note: Voters do not, of course, need to use these particular words to > > vote unambiguously, and may instead use "urk" and "whoopee!" or any > > other such words, so long as their intent is clear.) > > > > > 20: The Feathers rule. Any player found quilty of the crime of "extreme > > naughtiness" is punishable by the punishment of tickling, and may be > > punished by any voter. The punishment may be administered at any time > > during the period that the person guilty of extreme naughtiness is > > defined to be guilty for. > > _______________________________________________ > > > >> Nomic-talk mailing list > >> Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > >> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 17:00:55 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAW1f-0001xk-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:00:55 +0100 Received: from bay24-f30.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.80]:3334 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAW1N-0002ch-9d (return-path j_jwilks@hotmail.com) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:00:37 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:00:23 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:59:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: [Nomic] Summary Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 16:00:23.0263 (UTC) FILETIME=[6EF7A6F0:01C4A186] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=1.173, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: s Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 17:01:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:59:30 +0100 The following have been added to the ruleset, and should be updated onto the website ASAP: All text after the word 'world' should be removed from Rule 3, List of Voters. The first 4 Rules should be updated to the format 'Rule X, Y' 'Rule 5, The Rule of Handles' should be added, with the following text: There shall be a list of {real name, pseudonym} pairs; with one entry for each member of the List of Voters.  Initially the pseudonym entry in each pair will be unset.  At any time a player with an unset pseudonym may set their pseudonym to any legal string, provided that that string isn't lexically equivalent to any game entity, player's real name or player's pseudonym.  If a player has a non-null pseudonym set then their pseudonym and their real name may be used interchangably within the context of the game. This List shall be called the List of Handles. 'Rule 6, The Rule of Structured Names' should be added, with the following text: Each rule shall have a name that is a string of the form 'Rule X, Y'. In this string, X stands for an integer which is assigned to the rule when it is added to the ruleset and is one greater than the largest integer currently assigned to any rule. Y shall stand for any string of alphanumeric characters, spaces and punctuation which is distinct up to changes to case and spacing from the Y of any other rule in the rules. X is assigned only when a rule is added to the rules; Y must be specified along with the text of the rule when it is first proposed. All rules, when referring to other rules, must use the full name of the rule in question, excepting the following case: Where a rule is still a proposal, it may be referred to only by its alphanumeric designator Y. If that rule is then adopted, the gamestate shall be modified so that all references to that rule reference the full name instead. When this rule is brought into effect, the names of all existing rules shall be modified to bring them into line with this format. Alter the text of Rule 4, Concensus of Opinion from: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular change to the rules exists when one entity named on the List of Voters proposes the change to all other entities named on the List of Voters and obtains unambiguous consent to that change from each such entity. to: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. Therefore, the following proposals have received unanimous support and are awaiting Notice of Consensus before they can be passed into the ruleset: >12: Create a rule named The Rule of Conflict with the following text: >If a Judgement Procedure as defined by the rules determines that two or >more rules are in conflict and that it it not clear from the rules which of >them should take precedence, the entity which initiated that Judgement >Procedure may create and publically present a Conflict Resolution Roadmap. > A Conflict Resolution Roadmap is a document which describes changes to >the rules intended solely to remove the conflict in question. Once a CRR >has been presented, the changes it describes will take effect on the rules. >Any changes described by a Conflict Resolution Roadmap which have effects >other than to resolve the conflict the Roadmap was created to address will >not be applied and the creator of the Roadmap will be guilty of the crime >of Deviousness. > >13: Create a rule named And There Shall Be No Lizardmen, with the following >text: >Any entity which is a member of the List of Voters may cause itself to be >immediately removed from the List of Voters by publically announcing itself >to be a lizardman from Antares IV. The entity in question is encouraged to >use this opportunity to mock the puny humans for their pathetic inability >to see the truth until it was too late. > >Ayes: JJ, dok, adam, Mike, Stumo, Martin > I believe those are both adam's proposals. >4. The Law of Lizardmen. This is a pair of linked suggestions taking one >the following form: >The Rule of Autoadoption: > >Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters >may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: >1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). >2) They are not already in the List of Voters. >3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: >a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. >b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. >c) They wish to join the game. >Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of >Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game.  Their consent is not >needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration >at the time of their joining the game. > >A Planet? Where Lizards evolved from Men? >All entities eligible to be members of the List Of Voters (Which shall be >all living extranomic entities of the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens) shall >be considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV until a member of the List Of >Voters states "I do not believe is a lizardman from >Antares IV", where "" is to be replaced with the name of >the entity in question. No existing member of the List Of Voters is a >lizardman from Antares IV. > >Ayes: Martin, adam, Maz, JJ, Carrie, Madeleine, dok > > >5. The Rule of Assumed Consent >The current form of this is as follows: >A player shall be considered to have given their consent to a proposal if >the following are true: >The proposal was suggested more than 72 hours ago, and they haven't >explicitly expressed a lack of consent. >Ayes: Maz, JJ, Carrie, dok > >6: The Law of Lexicography (reworded There shall be a dictionary, called the Definitions Dictionary.  The definitions given in the Definitions Dictionary superceed the usual English meaning of terms for the purposes of the game; but are overriden by explicit rules wording. > >Ayes: Maz, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, Martin, JJ >Not yet responded to the change: adam, Carrie, dok > >7:The Existence of the Council >There shall exist the Great Council of the Elder Turtles, which shall >contain a number of Posts. Each Post shall consist of a Title, which can be >assigned a member of the List of Voters, and a list of duties which the >member holding that Post should perform. Failure on the part of that member >to perform these duties shall make them guilty of the crime of Uselessness > >(This proposal has been reworded to remove some of the objections) > >Aye: JJ, dok, Carrie >Withheld: Maz, Stumo, Martin, Madeleine > >8: The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: >A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by >name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, >except those which mention it by name. > >Ayes: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok, Madeleine Withheld: Carrie (based on uncertainty about the matter of rules merely referencing others rather than explicitly overriding them) > > >10: Create a rule as follows, called the Rule of Girls: >Notices of Consensus are considered to be printed on coloured paper. Any >electronic document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus is only deemed >to be so if it clearly describes what colour paper it is printed on. > >Ayes: dok, JJ, adam, Mike, Martin, Maz, Carrie, Madeleine > >11: The Rule of Self-Image >The game shall have a name, which shall be "Terrapin Nomic". > >Ayes: JJ, adam, dok, Mike, Martin, Madeleine, Maz Nay: Carrie > > >14: The Law of Total Annihilation >"Should thirteen paradoxes in the rules be discovered to exist >simultaneously, the nomic game ends, and the voters must lament having >destroyed the universe by trying to be too clever." > >Ayes: dok, Carrie, Madeleine >Nay: JJ (pending description of how a paradox is actually defined) > > >15: Create a rule named Keeping Up With the Nomeses, with the following >text: >There shall be a role entitled "Data Integrity Consultant" to be filled by >a member of the List of Voters, who is to investigate an automatic on-line >method of storing and cataloguing Proposals, Counter-Proposals and >Consent.  This role can later be incorporated into a Committee post if such >a body is created. > >Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok, Carrie, Madeleine, Maz > > >16: I'm Not a Window Cleaner >The entity Mike Cripps shall be the first holder of the role of Data >Integrity Consultant, and shall be immediately appointed to that role if it >exists when this rule is passed, assuming in both cases that the entity >Mike Cripps is a member of the List of Voters > >Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok, Carrie, Madeleine, Maz > >17: I propose that I just lost "The Game" >Ayes: Stumo, Maz, JJ, Carrie, Madeleine > 18: A lemon? Already? The member of the List of Voters "Carrie Oliver" shall redefine the meanings of "aye" and "nay" as she sees fit at midnight each day. Members of the List of Voters have the right to request the meanings of "yay" and "nay" from Carrie Oliver, and in return, she has the right to set simple tasks (such as "deliver this plank") that must be accomplished before said information is given. Should Carrie Olvier give contradictory information to different members of the List of Voters, she shall be guilty of the crime of "Extreme Naughtiness" for 24 hours starting at the point of discovery of the deception. (note: Voters do not, of course, need to use these particular words to vote unambiguously, and may instead use "urk" and "whoopee!" or any other such words, so long as their intent is clear.) Proposer: dok Aye: JJ Nay: Mike 19: The Feathers rule. Any player found quilty of the crime of "Extreme Naughtiness" is punishable by the punishment of tickling, and may be punished by any member of the List of Voters. The punishment may be administered at any time during the period that the person guilty of extreme naughtiness is defined to be guilty for. No member of the List of Voters may punish the guilty party more than once during the same period of guilt. Proposer: dok Aye: JJ Nay: Mike _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 17:11:21 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAWBk-0002eF-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:11:20 +0100 Received: from bay24-f32.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.82]:4273 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAWBa-0002mI-UP (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:11:11 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:11:03 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:10:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: [Nomic] Consent Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 16:11:03.0884 (UTC) FILETIME=[ECCEA8C0:01C4A187] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 17:12:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:10:30 +0100 I propose changing the text of Rule 4, Concensus of Opinion from: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. To: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from *all but one* of those entities, and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. Discuss. _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 17:35:43 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAWZK-0003q6-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:35:42 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:35613) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAWZI-0003S1-CF (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:35:40 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAWZI-0005tp-8V for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:35:40 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Complete annihilation X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.207.62] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1095895213.3599.46.camel@mewo2> <4152109B.3040705@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 17:36:03 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 17:35:40 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, David (Birch) wrote: > I've later removed all text before "should thirteen paradoxes..." since > your proposal has more of a "damn bureaucrats" feel to it than mine does. > I still want to be able to annihilate the universe. Annihilating the universe is good, but I'd be sad if it caused the game to end. adam From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 17:38:12 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAWbk-0003z1-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:38:12 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:33274) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAWbe-00053E-Qy (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:38:06 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAWbc-0007Gu-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:38:04 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAWXr-0006jY-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:34:11 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Consent In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:10:30 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 17:39:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:34:11 +0100 > I propose changing the text of Rule 4, Concensus of Opinion from: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on > the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other > entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that > proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus > to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has > been reached. > > To: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on > the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other > entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that > proposal from *all but one* of those entities, and then posts a public > Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which > Consensus of Opinion has been reached. > > > Discuss. A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from at least all but one of those entities, and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. J. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 17:46:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAWja-0004Z3-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:46:18 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:33828) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAWjM-0007Kh-2p (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:46:04 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAWjL-0000AQ-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:46:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAWgv-0006pm-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:43:33 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal: No finality Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 17:47:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:43:33 +0100 No finality In the event of someone winning the game then the following occur: a) They are recognised to have won the game. b) All gameplay stops, except as mandated by this rule. c) A new rule is created with the following text: --- 0, No fun here It is not possible to win the game. This rule takes precidence over all other rules. --- d) If it is possible for play to proceed then gameplay resumes. e) If it is not possible for play to proceed then the player who won the game may make whatever changes they wish to the rules for the purpose of allowing gameplay to continue; except that they may not change rule 0. f) Gameplay resumes. From happycarrie@gmail.com Thu Sep 23 18:20:36 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAXGm-0006Cy-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:20:36 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.198]:3294 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAXGi-00070y-S8 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:20:33 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so22924rnb for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.11.80 with SMTP id 80mr233489rnk; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.5 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Consent In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 18:21:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:20:24 +0100 On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:10:30 +0100, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > I propose changing the text of Rule 4, Concensus of Opinion from: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on > the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other > entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that > proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus > to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has > been reached. > > To: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on > the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other > entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that > proposal from *all but one* of those entities, and then posts a public > Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which > Consensus of Opinion has been reached. > > Discuss. > > Nay. I disagree. We have passed quite a few rules without this, I really don't feel it is necessary. _________________________________________________________________ > Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! > http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 20:28:24 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAZGS-0002hh-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:28:24 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:57620) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAZGN-0005jk-8k (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:28:19 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAZGN-0005hk-7L for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:28:19 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 20:29:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 20:28:19 +0100 JJ: We agreed earlier that any word not defined in the game has it's=20 meaning from the english language. If you want me to, I will define=20 "paradox" to have the meaning it does it the OED... I'll also add to that= =20 list "list, that, to, add, also, the, in, does, it, meaning, have, define,= =20 will, I, me, want, you, if, language, english, from, meaning, is, has,=20 game, defined, not, word, any, agreed, earlier, we, and and happy." Happy? On Sep 23 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > The following have been added to the ruleset, and should be updated onto= =20 > the website ASAP: >=20 > All text after the word 'world' should be removed from Rule 3, List of=20 > Voters. >=20 > The first 4 Rules should be updated to the format 'Rule X, Y' >=20 > 'Rule 5, The Rule of Handles' should be added, with the following text:= =20 > There shall be a list of {real name, pseudonym} pairs; with one entry for= =20 > each member of the List of Voters.=A0 Initially the pseudonym entry in ea= ch=20 > pair will be unset.=A0 At any time a player with an unset pseudonym may s= et=20 > their pseudonym to any legal string, provided that that string isn't=20 > lexically equivalent to any game entity, player's real name or player's= =20 > pseudonym.=A0 If a player has a non-null pseudonym set then their pseudon= ym=20 > and their real name may be used interchangably within the context of the= =20 > game. This List shall be called the List of Handles. >=20 > 'Rule 6, The Rule of Structured Names' should be added, with the=20 > following text: Each rule shall have a name that is a string of the form= =20 > 'Rule X, Y'. In this string, X stands for an integer which is assigned to= =20 > the rule when it is added to the ruleset and is one greater than the=20 > largest integer currently assigned to any rule. Y shall stand for any=20 > string of alphanumeric characters, spaces and punctuation which is=20 > distinct up to changes to case and spacing from the Y of any other rule= =20 > in the rules. X is assigned only when a rule is added to the rules; Y=20 > must be specified along with the text of the rule when it is first=20 > proposed. All rules, when referring to other rules, must use the full=20 > name of the rule in question, excepting the following case: Where a rule= =20 > is still a proposal, it may be referred to only by its alphanumeric=20 > designator Y. If that rule is then adopted, the gamestate shall be=20 > modified so that all references to that rule reference the full name=20 > instead. When this rule is brought into effect, the names of all existing= =20 > rules shall be modified to bring them into line with this format. >=20 > Alter the text of Rule 4, Concensus of Opinion from: A Consensus of=20 > Opinion on a particular change to the rules exists when one entity named= =20 > on the List of Voters proposes the change to all other entities named on= =20 > the List of Voters and obtains unambiguous consent to that change from=20 > each such entity. to: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists= =20 > when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing= =20 > the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains=20 > unambiguous consent to that proposal from each such entity and then posts= =20 > a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue=20 > upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. >=20 > Therefore, the following proposals have received unanimous support and=20 > are awaiting Notice of Consensus before they can be passed into the=20 > ruleset: >=20 > > 12: Create a rule named The Rule of Conflict with the following text:= =20 > > If a Judgement Procedure as defined by the rules determines that two or= =20 > > more rules are in conflict and that it it not clear from the rules=20 > > which of them should take precedence, the entity which initiated that= =20 > > Judgement Procedure may create and publically present a Conflict=20 > > Resolution Roadmap. > > A Conflict Resolution Roadmap is a document which describes changes=20 > > to the rules intended solely to remove the conflict in question. Once a= =20 > > CRR has been presented, the changes it describes will take effect on=20 > > the rules. Any changes described by a Conflict Resolution Roadmap which= =20 > > have effects other than to resolve the conflict the Roadmap was created= =20 > > to address will not be applied and the creator of the Roadmap will be= =20 > > guilty of the crime of Deviousness. >=20 > > > > 13: Create a rule named And There Shall Be No Lizardmen, with the=20 > > following text: Any entity which is a member of the List of Voters may= =20 > > cause itself to be immediately removed from the List of Voters by=20 > > publically announcing itself to be a lizardman from Antares IV. The=20 > > entity in question is encouraged to use this opportunity to mock the=20 > > puny humans for their pathetic inability to see the truth until it was= =20 > > too late. > > > >Ayes: JJ, dok, adam, Mike, Stumo, Martin > > >=20 > I believe those are both adam's proposals. >=20 >=20 >=20 > >4. The Law of Lizardmen. This is a pair of linked suggestions taking one= =20 > >the following form: > >The Rule of Autoadoption: > > > >Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters > >may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: > >1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). > >2) They are not already in the List of Voters. > >3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: > >a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. > >b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. > >c) They wish to join the game. > >Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of > >Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game.=A0 Their consent is not > >needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration > >at the time of their joining the game. > > > > A Planet? Where Lizards evolved from Men? All entities eligible to be= =20 > > members of the List Of Voters (Which shall be all living extranomic=20 > > entities of the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens) shall be considered to be= =20 > > lizardmen from Antares IV until a member of the List Of Voters states= =20 > > "I do not believe is a lizardman from Antares IV",=20 > > where "" is to be replaced with the name of the entity= =20 > > in question. No existing member of the List Of Voters is a lizardman=20 > > from Antares IV. > > > >Ayes: Martin, adam, Maz, JJ, Carrie, Madeleine, dok > > > > > > 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent The current form of this is as follows:= =20 > > A player shall be considered to have given their consent to a proposal= =20 > > if the following are true: The proposal was suggested more than 72=20 > > hours ago, and they haven't explicitly expressed a lack of consent.=20 > > Ayes: Maz, JJ, Carrie, dok > > > >6: The Law of Lexicography (reworded > There shall be a dictionary, called the Definitions Dictionary.=A0 The > definitions given in the Definitions Dictionary superceed the usual > English meaning of terms for the purposes of the game; but are > overriden by explicit rules wording. > > > >Ayes: Maz, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, Martin, JJ > >Not yet responded to the change: adam, Carrie, dok > > > > 7:The Existence of the Council There shall exist the Great Council of= =20 > > the Elder Turtles, which shall contain a number of Posts. Each Post=20 > > shall consist of a Title, which can be assigned a member of the List of= =20 > > Voters, and a list of duties which the member holding that Post should= =20 > > perform. Failure on the part of that member to perform these duties=20 > > shall make them guilty of the crime of Uselessness > > > >(This proposal has been reworded to remove some of the objections) > > > >Aye: JJ, dok, Carrie > >Withheld: Maz, Stumo, Martin, Madeleine > > > >8: The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: > >A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by > >name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, > >except those which mention it by name. > > > >Ayes: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok, Madeleine > Withheld: Carrie (based on uncertainty about the matter of rules merely= =20 > referencing others rather than explicitly overriding them) > > >=20 > > > > 10: Create a rule as follows, called the Rule of Girls: Notices of=20 > > Consensus are considered to be printed on coloured paper. Any=20 > > electronic document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus is only=20 > > deemed to be so if it clearly describes what colour paper it is printed= =20 > > on. > > > >Ayes: dok, JJ, adam, Mike, Martin, Maz, Carrie, Madeleine > > > >11: The Rule of Self-Image > >The game shall have a name, which shall be "Terrapin Nomic". > > > >Ayes: JJ, adam, dok, Mike, Martin, Madeleine, Maz > Nay: Carrie > > > > >=20 > >14: The Law of Total Annihilation > >"Should thirteen paradoxes in the rules be discovered to exist=20 > >simultaneously, the nomic game ends, and the voters must lament having= =20 > >destroyed the universe by trying to be too clever." > > > >Ayes: dok, Carrie, Madeleine > >Nay: JJ (pending description of how a paradox is actually defined) > > > > > > 15: Create a rule named Keeping Up With the Nomeses, with the following= =20 > > text: There shall be a role entitled "Data Integrity Consultant" to be= =20 > > filled by a member of the List of Voters, who is to investigate an=20 > > automatic on-line method of storing and cataloguing Proposals,=20 > > Counter-Proposals and Consent.=A0 This role can later be incorporated= =20 > > into a Committee post if such a body is created. > > > >Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok, Carrie, Madeleine, Maz > > > > > > 16: I'm Not a Window Cleaner The entity Mike Cripps shall be the first= =20 > > holder of the role of Data Integrity Consultant, and shall be=20 > > immediately appointed to that role if it exists when this rule is=20 > > passed, assuming in both cases that the entity Mike Cripps is a member= =20 > > of the List of Voters > > > >Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok, Carrie, Madeleine, Maz > > > >17: I propose that I just lost "The Game" > >Ayes: Stumo, Maz, JJ, Carrie, Madeleine > > >=20 > 18: A lemon? Already? The member of the List of Voters "Carrie Oliver"=20 > shall redefine the meanings of "aye" and "nay" as she sees fit at=20 > midnight each day. Members of the List of Voters have the right to=20 > request the meanings of "yay" and "nay" from Carrie Oliver, and in=20 > return, she has the right to set simple tasks (such as "deliver this=20 > plank") that must be accomplished before said information is given.=20 > Should Carrie Olvier give contradictory information to different members= =20 > of the List of Voters, she shall be guilty of the crime of "Extreme=20 > Naughtiness" for 24 hours starting at the point of discovery of the=20 > deception. >=20 > (note: Voters do not, of course, need to use these particular words to=20 > vote unambiguously, and may instead use "urk" and "whoopee!" or any other= =20 > such words, so long as their intent is clear.) >=20 > Proposer: dok > Aye: JJ > Nay: Mike >=20 > 19: The Feathers rule. Any player found quilty of the crime of "Extreme= =20 > Naughtiness" is punishable by the punishment of tickling, and may be=20 > punished by any member of the List of Voters. The punishment may be=20 > administered at any time during the period that the person guilty of=20 > extreme naughtiness is defined to be guilty for. No member of the List of= =20 > Voters may punish the guilty party more than once during the same period= =20 > of guilt. >=20 > Proposer: dok > Aye: JJ > Nay: Mike >=20 > _________________________________________________________________=20 > Express yourself with cool new emoticons=20 > http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk >=20 --=20 ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 20:49:39 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAZb1-0003Pz-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:49:39 +0100 Received: from 159-134-129-43.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.129.43]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.156]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAZar-0004wU-WE (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:49:32 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095968901.2560.2.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 20:50:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:48:22 +0100 On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 15:33, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > The following proposals appear to exist, in these forms, and I believe these > to be the votes people have cast on them, though I'm not bothering to list > ones completely rewritten or with more than a couple of Nays. > 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent > The current form of this is as follows: > A player shall be considered to have given their consent to a proposal if > the following are true: > The proposal was suggested more than 72 hours ago, and they haven't > explicitly expressed a lack of consent. > Ayes: Maz, JJ Aye. > 7:The Existence of the Council > There shall exist the Great Council of the Elder Turtles, which shall > contain a number of Posts. Each Post shall consist of a Title, which can be > assigned a member of the List of Voters, and a list of duties which the > member holding that Post should perform. Failure on the part of that member > to perform these duties shall make them guilty of the crime of > > (This proposal has been reworded to remove some of the objections) > > Aye: JJ > Withheld: Maz, Stumo, Martin > Nay: ahdok (But surely we're going to need some way to assign things to > people? ed.) Oh, make it an aye. > 14: The Law of Total Annihilation > "Should thirteen paradoxes be discovered to exist simultaneously, the nomic > game ends, and the voters must lament having destroyed the universe by > trying to be too clever." > > Ayes: dok > Nay: JJ (pending description of how a paradox is actually defined, > especially whether you want it to be only within the rules) Nay. I don't want the game to end. > 15: Create a rule named Keeping Up With the Nomeses, with the following > text: > There shall be a role entitled "Data Integrity Consultant" to be filled by a > member of the List of Voters, who is to investigate an automatic on-line > method of storing and cataloguing Proposals, Counter-Proposals and Consent. > This role can later be incorporated into a Committee post if such a body is > created. > > Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok Aye. > 16: I'm Not a Window Cleaner > The entity Mike Cripps shall be the first holder of the role of Data > Integrity Consultant, and shall be immediately appointed to that role if it > exists when this rule is passed, assuming in both cases that the entity Mike > Cripps is a member of the List of Voters > > Ayes: JJ, Mike, Stumo, dok Aye. > 18: On the Numbering of Proposals > Each proposal shall be numbered by its proposer. These numbers shall be > sequential integers beginning from 1 for the first proposal after this rule. > Counter-proposals to a proposal N should be numbered Na, Nb, Nc etc. > > Nay: adam (on the basis that two proposals may be cross-posted with the same > number. Workaround counterproposals are invited) Nay, on the same grounds. Martin From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 20:54:22 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAZfa-0003ZK-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:54:22 +0100 Received: from 159-134-129-43.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.129.43]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.156]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAZfU-0005p0-5F (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:54:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095969185.2560.6.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 20:55:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:53:05 +0100 On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 15:52, Carrie Oliver wrote: > > 8: The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: > > A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by > > name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, > > except those which mention it by name. > > > > Ayes: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok > > > > Was there not an objection along the lines of: this allows a rule to > override another by mentioning it even though this maynot be > necessary? If this is reworded to cover this I shall agree I don't think this was an objection, so much as an observation. I hope it's clear that simply mentioning a rule doesn't make it no longer valid. You also have to state something which is contrary to the rule mentioned. So random mentions of rules won't have any effect. Martin From happycarrie@gmail.com Thu Sep 23 21:11:39 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAZwI-0004HZ-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:11:38 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]:33289 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAZwF-0008L2-5F (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:11:35 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so57497rnb for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.11.80 with SMTP id 80mr244785rnk; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.5 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 In-Reply-To: <1095969185.2560.6.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1095969185.2560.6.camel@mewo2> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 21:12:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:11:29 +0100 On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:53:05 +0100, Martin O'Leary wrote: > On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 15:52, Carrie Oliver wrote: > > > 8: The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: > > > A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by > > > name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, > > > except those which mention it by name. > > > > > > Ayes: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok > > > > > > > Was there not an objection along the lines of: this allows a rule to > > override another by mentioning it even though this maynot be > > necessary? If this is reworded to cover this I shall agree > > I don't think this was an objection, so much as an observation. I hope > it's clear that simply mentioning a rule doesn't make it no longer > valid. You also have to state something which is contrary to the rule > mentioned. So random mentions of rules won't have any effect. > > Martin > Seeing as you have all been so bloody picky about the phrasing of the rules so far should this be made clearer? Carrie > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 21:25:48 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAaA0-0004le-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:25:48 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:48124) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAa9x-0005yy-GV (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:25:45 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAa9w-0006de-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:25:44 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAa93-0008AK-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:24:49 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal -- But I can't hear it! Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 21:26:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:24:49 +0100 But I can't hear it! /* -- REM, Radio Song */ Any text in a rule between C-style comment delimiters; as demonstrated above; has no rules effect, and exists only as a comment. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 21:25:48 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAaA0-0004lk-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:25:48 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:48116) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAa9v-0003CE-MU (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:25:43 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAa9u-0006de-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:25:42 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAa9f-0008Al-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:25:27 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal -- Twice the fun; harf the harf! Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 21:26:03 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:25:27 +0100 Twice the fun; harf the harf! A proposed rules change may be described as harfy. A proposed rules change can only become harfy if: a) No other proposed rules change is harfy. b) The Harfharfer declares that it is harfy. c) It was not proposed by the current Harfharfer. If a harfy rules change takes place then the following events happen: a) The entity which proposed the rules change gains one chocolate biscuit. b) The entity which proposed the rules change becomes the Harfharfer; the previous Harfharfer ceases to be the Harfharfer. c) If the rule change created a rule, then that rule may also be described as harfy. If there is no harfy rules change for three days, but there exist non-harfy proposed rules changes for that entire period, then the Harfharfer is guilty of the Crime of Hogging the Harf. The standard punishment for the Crime of Hogging the Harf shall be confiscation of two chocolate biscuits. Adam Biltcliffe becomes the Harfharfer; The Rule of Girls may be described as harfy; and this paragraph is deleted from the rules. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 21:27:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAaBS-0004pk-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:27:18 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:48230) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAaBP-0003Pp-Dg (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:27:15 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAaBO-0006ms-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:27:14 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAaBJ-0008Fh-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:27:09 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Twice the fun; harf the harf! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:25:27 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 21:28:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:27:09 +0100 > Twice the fun; harf the harf! > A description of the word "harf" can be found here: http://www.sonic.net/~meuller4/jenny/nomic/axiom/harf.html J. From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 21:31:07 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAaF9-00053u-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:31:07 +0100 Received: from 159-134-129-2.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.129.2]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.156]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAaF1-0003p3-Jg (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:31:04 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: <1095969185.2560.6.camel@mewo2> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095970540.2560.10.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 21:32:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:27:53 +0100 On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 21:11, Carrie Oliver wrote: > Seeing as you have all been so bloody picky about the phrasing of the > rules so far should this be made clearer? If you like, although I thought it was clear enough. Proposal: === I Can't Believe It's Not 'The "Exception Which Proves The" Rule'! A rule takes precedence over another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by name. The only exception is this rule, which takes precedence over all others, except those which mention it by name. === Martin From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 21:32:00 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAaG0-00055j-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:32:00 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:42052) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAaFw-0004Aw-7C (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:31:56 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAaFv-0006Vp-Q5 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:31:55 +0000 Message-ID: <415332C7.70403@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Twice the fun; harf the harf! References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 21:32:03 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:32:07 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: >>Twice the fun; harf the harf! >> > > A description of the word "harf" can be found here: > > http://www.sonic.net/~meuller4/jenny/nomic/axiom/harf.html > No it can't... Where do the chocolate biscuits come from? From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 21:38:19 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAaM7-0005MP-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:38:19 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:50958) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAaM4-0006V4-MN (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:38:16 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAaM3-0000vb-EG for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:38:15 +0000 Message-ID: <41533442.9040805@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: No finality References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 21:39:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:38:26 +0100 Hmm, not bad I suppose. Aye Jonathan David Amery wrote: > No finality > > In the event of someone winning the game then the following occur: > > a) They are recognised to have won the game. > b) All gameplay stops, except as mandated by this rule. > c) A new rule is created with the following text: > --- > 0, No fun here > > It is not possible to win the game. This rule takes precidence over > all other rules. > --- > d) If it is possible for play to proceed then gameplay resumes. > e) If it is not possible for play to proceed then the player who won > the game may make whatever changes they wish to the rules for the > purpose of allowing gameplay to continue; except that they may not > change rule 0. > f) Gameplay resumes. > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From happycarrie@gmail.com Thu Sep 23 21:39:58 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAaNh-0005Pj-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:39:57 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.201]:28158 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAaNa-0006gm-VH (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:39:51 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v18so2951247rnb for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.179.69 with SMTP id b69mr246829rnf; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.5 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 In-Reply-To: <1095970540.2560.10.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1095969185.2560.6.camel@mewo2> <1095970540.2560.10.camel@mewo2> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 21:40:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:39:35 +0100 On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:27:53 +0100, Martin O'Leary wrote: > On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 21:11, Carrie Oliver wrote: > > > Seeing as you have all been so bloody picky about the phrasing of the > > rules so far should this be made clearer? > > If you like, although I thought it was clear enough. > > Proposal: > === > I Can't Believe It's Not 'The "Exception Which Proves The" Rule'! > > A rule takes precedence over another rule if and only if it mentions > that rule by name. The only exception is this rule, which takes > precedence over all others, except those which mention it by name. > === > > Martin > > Is that actually any different? Fine, fine. I say aye. > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From jdamery@chiark.greenend.org.uk Thu Sep 23 21:39:21 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAaN7-0005OR-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:39:21 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:48952) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAaN3-0008FC-MG (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:39:17 +0100 Received: by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with local for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@chiark.greenend.org.uk) id 1CAaN2-0008CU-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:39:16 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal -- Spooky Action At A Distance Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 21:42:03 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:39:16 +0100 Spooky Action At A Distance A voter may declare that a rules change that they have proposed is entwined with another existing proposed rules change. A rules change cannot be considered to have a Consensus of Opinion in favour of it if any rules changed that it has been entwined with has already recieved a Consensus of Opinion. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 21:46:10 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAaTi-0005he-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:46:10 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:49404) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAaTc-0006gE-Kl (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:46:04 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAaTb-0000eW-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:46:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAaPs-0008M6-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:42:12 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal -- Spooky Action At A Distance Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 21:47:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:42:12 +0100 ((Note to the mailinglistmaintainer -- please reject the copy I sent from the wrong account!)) Spooky Action At A Distance A voter may declare that a rules change that they have proposed is entwined with another existing proposed rules change. A rules change cannot be considered to have a Consensus of Opinion in favour of it if any rules changed that it has been entwined with has already recieved a Consensus of Opinion. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 21:52:33 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAaZs-0005ti-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:52:32 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:49881) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAaZo-0003ft-89 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:52:28 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAaZn-0001XL-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:52:27 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAaVg-0008QG-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:48:12 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Twice the fun; harf the harf! In-Reply-To: Message from Stuart Moore of "Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:32:07 BST." <415332C7.70403@cam.ac.uk> References: <415332C7.70403@cam.ac.uk> From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 21:53:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:48:12 +0100 > Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > >>Twice the fun; harf the harf! > >> > > > > A description of the word "harf" can be found here: > > > > http://www.sonic.net/~meuller4/jenny/nomic/axiom/harf.html > > > > No it can't... > Obviously that should be: http://www.sonic.net/~mueller4/jenny/nomic/axiom/harf.html ^^ > Where do the chocolate biscuits come from? > The ether. J. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 23:08:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAbl4-0000RY-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:08:10 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:54425) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbl1-0003L3-2N (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:08:07 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAbky-0002Z2-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:08:04 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAbiA-0000ar-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:05:10 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Pseudonym Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:05:10 +0100 I assign myself the pseudonym "Wild Card". From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:12:47 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAbpX-0000aa-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:12:47 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45110) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbpV-0004Fn-1T (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:12:45 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbpV-0007aD-0Q for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:12:45 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] consent to consent Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:13:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:12:44 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent > The current form of this is as follows: > A player shall be considered to have given their consent to a proposal if > the following are true: > The proposal was suggested more than 72 hours ago, and they haven't > explicitly expressed a lack of consent. > Ayes: Maz, JJ Add me to that list. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:15:40 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAbsH-0000gc-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:15:37 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45275) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbsF-0004gr-AC (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:15:35 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbsF-0007tb-9C for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:15:35 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:16:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:15:35 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > There shall be a dictionary, called the Definitions Dictionary. The > definitions given in the definitions dictionary superceed the usual > english meaning of terms for the purposes of the game; but are > overriden by explicit rules wording. Looks good to me. > Aye, but what if two rules disagree, and neither overrules? Then there's a conflict - see my proposal on Conflict Resolution Roadmaps. > > 11: The Rule of Self-Image > > The game shall have a name, which shall be "Terrapin Nomic". > > > > Ayes: JJ, adam, dok, Mike, Martin > > Couldn't you come up with something more interesting? Aye. Feel free to suggest a change. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:17:53 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAbuS-0000kh-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:17:52 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45415) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbuP-0001Il-Pe (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:17:49 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbuP-00087E-OZ for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:17:49 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Consent X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:18:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:17:49 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > I propose changing the text of Rule 4, Concensus of Opinion from: I approve in principle of not requiring unanimity on all decisions, but I'm not sure your proposal is the right way to go about it - apart from anything else, I believe it's ambiguous as to whether a consensus exists if all of the players consent. I was going to suggest a complete rewrite of the voting procedure earlier today, but seeing that rules had actually started to get passed, I decided it wasn't as urgent as I'd felt. adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:20:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAbwk-0000pi-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:20:14 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:58164) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbwg-0001fP-HM (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:20:10 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAbwd-0005U9-OF for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:20:07 +0000 Message-ID: <41534C23.6080707@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=1.173, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: s Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:21:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:20:19 +0100 John-Joseph Wilks wrote: >> 4. The Law of Lizardmen. This is a pair of linked suggestions taking >> one the following form: >> The Rule of Autoadoption: >> >> Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters >> may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: >> 1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). >> 2) They are not already in the List of Voters. >> 3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: >> a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. >> b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. >> c) They wish to join the game. >> Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of >> Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game. Their consent is not >> needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration >> at the time of their joining the game. >> >> A Planet? Where Lizards evolved from Men? >> All entities eligible to be members of the List Of Voters (Which shall >> be all living extranomic entities of the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens) >> shall be considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV until a member of >> the List Of Voters states "I do not believe is a >> lizardman from >> Antares IV", where "" is to be replaced with the name >> of the entity in question. No existing member of the List Of Voters is >> a lizardman from Antares IV. >> >> Ayes: Martin, adam, Maz, JJ, Carrie, Madeleine, dok Aye >> >> >> 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent >> The current form of this is as follows: >> A player shall be considered to have given their consent to a proposal >> if the following are true: >> The proposal was suggested more than 72 hours ago, and they haven't >> explicitly expressed a lack of consent. >> Ayes: Maz, JJ, Carrie, dok Aye >> >> 7:The Existence of the Council >> There shall exist the Great Council of the Elder Turtles, which shall >> contain a number of Posts. Each Post shall consist of a Title, which >> can be assigned a member of the List of Voters, and a list of duties >> which the member holding that Post should perform. Failure on the part >> of that member to perform these duties shall make them guilty of the >> crime of Uselessness >> >> (This proposal has been reworded to remove some of the objections) >> >> Aye: JJ, dok, Carrie >> Withheld: Maz, Stumo, Martin, Madeleine Aye >> >> 8: The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: >> A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by >> name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, >> except those which mention it by name. >> >> Ayes: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok, Madeleine Aye >> 10: Create a rule as follows, called the Rule of Girls: >> Notices of Consensus are considered to be printed on coloured paper. >> Any electronic document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus is only >> deemed to be so if it clearly describes what colour paper it is >> printed on. >> >> Ayes: dok, JJ, adam, Mike, Martin, Maz, Carrie, Madeleine Aye >> >> 11: The Rule of Self-Image >> The game shall have a name, which shall be "Terrapin Nomic". >> >> Ayes: JJ, adam, dok, Mike, Martin, Madeleine, Maz > > Nay: Carrie Nay, there are far better names. >> >> > >> 14: The Law of Total Annihilation >> "Should thirteen paradoxes in the rules be discovered to exist >> simultaneously, the nomic game ends, and the voters must lament having >> destroyed the universe by trying to be too clever." >> >> Ayes: dok, Carrie, Madeleine >> Nay: JJ (pending description of how a paradox is actually defined) Aye > > 18: A lemon? Already? > The member of the List of Voters "Carrie Oliver" shall redefine the > meanings of "aye" and "nay" as she sees fit at midnight each day. > Members of the List of Voters have the right to request the meanings of > "yay" and "nay" from Carrie Oliver, and in return, she has the right to > set simple tasks (such as "deliver this plank") that must be > accomplished before said information is given. Should Carrie Olvier give > contradictory information to different members of the List of Voters, > she shall be guilty of the crime of "Extreme Naughtiness" for 24 hours > starting at the point of discovery of the deception. > > (note: Voters do not, of course, need to use these particular words to > vote unambiguously, and may instead use "urk" and "whoopee!" or any > other such words, so long as their intent is clear.) > > Proposer: dok > Aye: JJ > Nay: Mike Nay > > 19: The Feathers rule. > Any player found quilty of the crime of "Extreme Naughtiness" is > punishable by the punishment of tickling, and may be punished by any > member of the List of Voters. The punishment may be administered at any > time during the period that the person guilty of extreme naughtiness is > defined to be guilty for. No member of the List of Voters may punish the > guilty party more than once during the same period of guilt. > > Proposer: dok > Aye: JJ > Nay: Mike Nay From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:20:35 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAbx5-0000qL-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:20:35 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45567) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbx1-000678-S3 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:20:31 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbx1-0008NO-R6 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:20:31 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Consent X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:21:05 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:20:31 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Carrie Oliver wrote: [On removal of requirement of unanimity] > Nay. I disagree. We have passed quite a few rules without this, I > really don't feel it is necessary. I'd like to go on the record as stating that I do feel it would be good to eventually move away from allowing a single dissenter to block passage of a new rule that's overwhelmingly accepted by the other players. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:21:29 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAbxx-0000tT-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:21:29 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45624) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbxu-0005iI-QW (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:21:26 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbxu-0008SW-PW for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:21:26 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:22:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:21:26 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, David (Birch) wrote: > JJ: We agreed earlier that any word not defined in the game has it's > meaning from the english language. Really? Seems a reasonable interpretation, but I don't see it in the rules. Want to make that official? adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:23:37 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAc01-0000xM-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:23:37 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45752) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbzy-0002Bw-Jg (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:23:34 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAbzy-0000E0-In for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:23:34 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:24:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:23:34 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Carrie Oliver wrote: > On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:53:05 +0100, Martin O'Leary > wrote: > > On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 15:52, Carrie Oliver wrote: > > > > 8: The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: A rule may override > > > > another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by name. The only > > > > exception is this rule, which overrides all others, except those > > > > which mention it by name. > > > > > > Was there not an objection along the lines of: this allows a rule to > > > override another by mentioning it even though this maynot be > > > necessary? If this is reworded to cover this I shall agree > > > > I don't think this was an objection, so much as an observation. I hope > > it's clear that simply mentioning a rule doesn't make it no longer > > valid. You also have to state something which is contrary to the rule > > mentioned. So random mentions of rules won't have any effect. > > Seeing as you have all been so bloody picky about the phrasing of the > rules so far should this be made clearer? Personally, I think it's clear as is, but if you'd like to propose an alternative phrasing which is clearer, by all means do so. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:24:48 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAc1A-0000zm-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:24:48 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45835) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAc17-0006my-EK (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:24:45 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAc17-0000Lb-DL for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:24:45 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Twice the fun; harf the harf! X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:25:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:24:45 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Twice the fun; harf the harf! Yes, why not? adam From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 23:25:37 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAc1x-00011E-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:25:37 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:55463) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAc1s-0001Iy-QA (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:25:32 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAc1q-0004m3-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:25:31 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAc1Y-0000q8-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:25:12 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Spooky Action At A Distance In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:42:12 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:26:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:25:12 +0100 > ((Note to the mailinglistmaintainer -- please reject the copy I sent > from the wrong account!)) > Spooky Action At A Distance > > A voter may declare that a rules change that they have proposed is > entwined with another existing proposed rules change. > > A rules change cannot be considered to have a Consensus of Opinion in > favour of it if any rules changed that it has been entwined with has > already recieved a Consensus of Opinion. > Add to the bottom of this proposed rule: This rule overrides "Rule 4, Concensus of Opinion". From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:26:04 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAc2N-00012F-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:26:03 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45915) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAc2M-0002aH-2Q (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:26:02 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAc2M-0000SM-1U for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:26:02 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- But I can't hear it! X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:27:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:26:01 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > But I can't hear it! > > /* -- REM, Radio Song */ > > Any text in a rule between C-style comment delimiters; as demonstrated > above; has no rules effect, and exists only as a comment. I object on the grounds of blatant abuse of the semicolon. Also, in what circumstances do you feel it's useful to have non-authoritative text kept in a rule? adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:28:00 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAc4F-000169-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:27:59 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45991) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAc49-0001n4-FB (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:27:53 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAc49-0000cp-EK for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:27:53 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: <1095970540.2560.10.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095970540.2560.10.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:28:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:27:53 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > Proposal: > === > I Can't Believe It's Not 'The "Exception Which Proves The" Rule'! > > A rule takes precedence over another rule if and only if it mentions > that rule by name. The only exception is this rule, which takes > precedence over all others, except those which mention it by name. I think I prefer the first phrasing. adam From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 23:31:12 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAc7M-0001Ep-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:31:12 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:55834) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAc7F-0007vD-Nu (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:31:05 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAc7D-0006F1-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:31:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAc6H-0000vc-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:30:05 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- But I can't hear it! In-Reply-To: Your message of "23 Sep 2004 23:26:01 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:32:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:30:05 +0100 > On Sep 23 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > > But I can't hear it! > > > > /* -- REM, Radio Song */ > > > > Any text in a rule between C-style comment delimiters; as demonstrated > > above; has no rules effect, and exists only as a comment. > > I object on the grounds of blatant abuse of the semicolon. Bah, you can't do that without suggesting a fixed phrasing... > Also, in what circumstances do you feel it's useful to have > non-authoritative text kept in a rule? Like above, examples, references to source materials, implementation notes ("/* if we ever create a judgement system, then support will be needed here */"), etc. WC. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:31:36 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAc7j-0001Fd-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:31:36 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:46280) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAc7f-0007W7-KR (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:31:31 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAc7f-00010Y-JX for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:31:31 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Spooky Action At A Distance X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:32:05 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:31:31 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Jonathan Amery wrote: > Spooky Action At A Distance > > A voter may declare that a rules change that they have proposed is > entwined with another existing proposed rules change. > > A rules change cannot be considered to have a Consensus of Opinion in > favour of it if any rules changed that it has been entwined with has > already recieved a Consensus of Opinion. Nice try. But it seems that I can use this rule to declare my proposal entwined with another proposed rules change that has already passed, and then have it pass automatically. adam From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 23:33:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAc9O-0001Jo-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:33:18 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:55962) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAc9G-0008HC-Uh (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:33:10 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAc9G-0006ig-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:33:10 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAc99-0000yx-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:33:03 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Spooky Action At A Distance In-Reply-To: Your message of "23 Sep 2004 23:31:31 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:34:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:33:03 +0100 > Nice try. But it seems that I can use this rule to declare my proposal > entwined with another proposed rules change that has already passed, and > then have it pass automatically. > *not* pass, automatically. From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 23:36:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAcCE-0001R7-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:36:14 +0100 Received: from bay24-f10.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.60]:4637 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcCA-00087O-D8 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:36:10 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:36:03 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:35:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] Madeleine's proposals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 22:36:03.0470 (UTC) FILETIME=[B53BC2E0:01C4A1BD] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:37:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:35:09 +0100 >Twice the fun; harf the harf! > >A proposed rules change may be described as harfy. > >A proposed rules change can only become harfy if: >a) No other proposed rules change is harfy. >b) The Harfharfer declares that it is harfy. >c) It was not proposed by the current Harfharfer. > >If a harfy rules change takes place then the following events happen: >a) The entity which proposed the rules change gains one chocolate >biscuit. >b) The entity which proposed the rules change becomes the Harfharfer; > the previous Harfharfer ceases to be the Harfharfer. >c) If the rule change created a rule, then that rule may also be > described as harfy. > >If there is no harfy rules change for three days, but there exist >non-harfy proposed rules changes for that entire period, then the >Harfharfer is guilty of the Crime of Hogging the Harf. > >The standard punishment for the Crime of Hogging the Harf shall be >confiscation of two chocolate biscuits. > >Adam Biltcliffe becomes the Harfharfer; The Rule of Girls may be >described as harfy; and this paragraph is deleted from the rules. Oh, why not, even if it is a blatant rip from Ackanomic. >But I can't hear it! > >/* -- REM, Radio Song */ > >Any text in a rule between C-style comment delimiters; as demonstrated >above; has no rules effect, and exists only as a comment. Aye, I've already chafed that I can't do that. >((Note to the mailinglistmaintainer -- please reject the copy I sent >   from the wrong account!)) >Spooky Action At A Distance > >A voter may declare that a rules change that they have proposed is >entwined with another existing proposed rules change. > >A rules change cannot be considered to have a Consensus of Opinion in >favour of it if any rules changed that it has been entwined with has >already recieved a Consensus of Opinion. This Rule overrides Rule 4, >Consensus of Opinion. > No, even with the override added (which we aren't allowed to do yet, are we?), I still don't like the abuses inherent in twinning far too many proposals with each other. No finality In the event of someone winning the game then the following occur: a) They are recognised to have won the game. b) All gameplay stops, except as mandated by this rule. c) A new rule is created with the following text: --- 0, No fun here It is not possible to win the game.  This rule takes precidence over all other rules. --- d) If it is possible for play to proceed then gameplay resumes. e) If it is not possible for play to proceed then the player who won the game may make whatever changes they wish to the rules for the purpose of allowing gameplay to continue; except that they may not change rule 0. f) Gameplay resumes. Aye, we can always change it if we do want to allow things to end. _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:36:25 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAcCO-0001Rm-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:36:24 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:46595) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcCN-0004YL-8j (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:36:23 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcCN-0001Tt-7d for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:36:23 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Spooky Action At A Distance X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:37:04 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:36:23 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > Nice try. But it seems that I can use this rule to declare my proposal > > entwined with another proposed rules change that has already passed, > > and then have it pass automatically. > > > *not* pass, automatically. Ah, sorry, misread that. In that case, I consent to this rule, with the added clause that has it override Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:40:01 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAcFs-0001ZF-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:40:00 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:46815) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcFp-0000By-2O (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:39:57 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcFp-0001px-1J for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:39:57 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: No finality X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:40:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:39:57 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > No finality > > In the event of someone winning the game then the following occur: > > a) They are recognised to have won the game. > b) All gameplay stops, except as mandated by this rule. > c) A new rule is created with the following text: > --- > 0, No fun here > > It is not possible to win the game. This rule takes precidence over > all other rules. > --- > d) If it is possible for play to proceed then gameplay resumes. > e) If it is not possible for play to proceed then the player who won > the game may make whatever changes they wish to the rules for the > purpose of allowing gameplay to continue; except that they may not > change rule 0. > f) Gameplay resumes. This seems to be about the right spirit, but the implementation is flawed. Specifically, Rule 0, if created as above, would not be permitted to override any rules which state that it is possible to win the game, since it doesn't name them explicitly, and so a contradiction would be created. I suggest a simpler proposal along the lines of "If a player wins, they . Winning the game does not cause the game to end." adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:45:16 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAcKx-0001p7-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:45:15 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:47329) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcKv-0001fY-RZ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:45:13 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcKv-0002QX-Qe for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:45:13 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Notices of Consensus Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:46:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:45:13 +0100 Both of the following notices are printed on green paper, although the rules do not currently mandate this. ========== NOTICE OF CONSENSUS It has been agreed by the explicit consent of all entities currently named on the List of Voters that the following proposal shall be put into effect: Create a rule named The Rule of Conflict with the following text: If a Judgement Procedure as defined by the rules determines that two or more rules are in conflict and that it it not clear from the rules which of them should take precedence, the entity which initiated that Judgement Procedure may create and publically present a Conflict Resolution Roadmap. A Conflict Resolution Roadmap is a document which describes changes to the rules intended solely to remove the conflict in question. Once a CRR has been presented, the changes it describes will take effect on the rules. Any changes described by a Conflict Resolution Roadmap which have effects other than to resolve the conflict the Roadmap was created to address will not be applied and the creator of the Roadmap will be guilty of the crime of Deviousness. ========== ========== NOTICE OF CONSENSUS The following proposal, having been agreed upon by all members of the List of Voters, shall now come into effect: Create a rule named And There Shall Be No Lizardmen, with the following text: Any entity which is a member of the List of Voters may cause itself to be immediately removed from the List of Voters by publically announcing itself to be a lizardman from Antares IV. The entity in question is encouraged to use this opportunity to mock the puny humans for their pathetic inability to see the truth until it was too late. ========== There we go, folks, rules 7 and 8. Share and enjoy. adam From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 23 23:46:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAcLo-0001ra-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:46:08 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:56852) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcLk-0001lf-8K (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:46:04 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAcLj-0000UY-00; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:46:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAcH3-00016L-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:41:13 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: No finality In-Reply-To: Your message of "23 Sep 2004 23:39:57 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:47:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:41:13 +0100 > This seems to be about the right spirit, but the implementation is flawed. > Specifically, Rule 0, if created as above, would not be permitted to > override any rules which state that it is possible to win the game, since > it doesn't name them explicitly, and so a contradiction would be created. I > suggest a simpler proposal along the lines of "If a player wins, they recognised in some glorious way>. Winning the game does not cause the game > to end." > Something like Rule 0 is needed to stop infinite-win-cycles (caused one of those by mistake once in .nomic...). WC. From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 23:51:27 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAcQx-00021X-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:51:27 +0100 Received: from bay24-f25.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.75]:3994 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcQt-0002G6-Ac (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:51:23 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:51:03 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:50:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: No finality Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 22:51:03.0983 (UTC) FILETIME=[CDFB23F0:01C4A1BF] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:52:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:50:55 +0100 > >On Sep 23 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > >>No finality >> >>In the event of someone winning the game then the following occur: >> >>a) They are recognised to have won the game. >>b) All gameplay stops, except as mandated by this rule. >>c) A new rule is created with the following text: >>--- >>0, No fun here >> >>It is not possible to win the game. This rule takes precidence over >>all other rules. >>--- >>d) If it is possible for play to proceed then gameplay resumes. >>e) If it is not possible for play to proceed then the player who won >>the game may make whatever changes they wish to the rules for the >>purpose of allowing gameplay to continue; except that they may not >>change rule 0. >>f) Gameplay resumes. > >This seems to be about the right spirit, but the implementation is flawed. >Specifically, Rule 0, if created as above, would not be permitted to >override any rules which state that it is possible to win the game, since >it doesn't name them explicitly, and so a contradiction would be created. I >suggest a simpler proposal along the lines of "If a player wins, they recognised in some glorious way>. Winning the game does not cause the game >to end." > Good point, and nice, simple plan to solve it. I suggest recognising them with the title 'Grand High Muck-a-Muck of the Kingdom', and the ability to rescind one rule, of their choice, when they win, requiring that this still leave the game in a winnable state. And possibly creating a rule that the same player cannot win twice in succession, to prevent nasty looping things. JJ _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 23 23:57:01 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAcWL-0002Cs-00 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:57:01 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:48166) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcWJ-0006k6-Pi (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:56:59 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcWJ-0003gI-Op for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:56:59 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: No finality X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 23 23:58:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 23 Sep 2004 23:56:59 +0100 On Sep 23 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > Good point, and nice, simple plan to solve it. > I suggest recognising them with the title 'Grand High Muck-a-Muck of the > Kingdom', and the ability to rescind one rule, of their choice, when they > win, requiring that this still leave the game in a winnable state. I think we should just be careful with winning conditions, and any winning condition which allows someone to win on the basis of score, etc., should include a clauce causing the scores to be reset when someone wins. If we allow wins by paradox, we should allow the winner to make any changes to the game they desire, provided that they resolve the paradox and do not immediately win again once the play resumes. This is not, as yet, a formal proposal. > And possibly creating a rule that the same player cannot win twice in > succession, to prevent nasty looping things. Nah. If the same player can win twice in succession for two entirely unrelated reasons, more power to 'em. adam From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Fri Sep 24 00:02:34 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAcbi-0002Yf-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:02:34 +0100 Received: from bay24-f19.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.69]:2554 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcbY-0004Ki-8s (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:02:24 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:02:02 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:01:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: No finality Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2004 23:02:02.0307 (UTC) FILETIME=[565F6930:01C4A1C1] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 00:03:03 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:01:37 +0100 > >On Sep 23 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >>Good point, and nice, simple plan to solve it. >>I suggest recognising them with the title 'Grand High Muck-a-Muck of the >>Kingdom', and the ability to rescind one rule, of their choice, when they >>win, requiring that this still leave the game in a winnable state. > >I think we should just be careful with winning conditions, and any winning >condition which allows someone to win on the basis of score, etc., should >include a clauce causing the scores to be reset when someone wins. If we >allow wins by paradox, we should allow the winner to make any changes to >the game they desire, provided that they resolve the paradox and do not >immediately win again once the play resumes. Yes > >This is not, as yet, a formal proposal. > >>And possibly creating a rule that the same player cannot win twice in >>succession, to prevent nasty looping things. > >Nah. If the same player can win twice in succession for two entirely >unrelated reasons, more power to 'em. Oh, if they're unrelated, then absolutely, that was just the first hack I thought of to solve the situation. I suggest that the best way to do this is probably to make one of the consequences of someone winning to be removal of the rule under which they won. JJ _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 00:14:36 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAcnM-0003SO-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:14:36 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:55755) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcnK-0006gN-Gh (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:14:34 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcnK-0003At-Ff for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:14:34 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: No finality X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 00:15:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 00:14:34 +0100 On Sep 24 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > Oh, if they're unrelated, then absolutely, that was just the first hack > I thought of to solve the situation. I suggest that the best way to do > this is probably to make one of the consequences of someone winning to be > removal of the rule under which they won. Dangerous. I wouldn't trust the rules enough to be certain that someone couldn't at least semi-justifiably use this to somehow delete Rule 1 or something. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 00:19:43 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAcsI-0003fr-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:19:42 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:57999) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcsD-0007BU-FY (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:19:37 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAcsD-0005Ux-EZ for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:19:37 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.152.34] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Notice of Consensus: Rule of Girls Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 00:20:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 00:19:37 +0100 I'm tempted not to mention this, in order to establish some sort of precedent for the effect rules can have on their own adoption, but since we don't have any sort of judgement procedure in place yet, I'd better not do anything too contentious. Therefore, the following notice is printed on pink paper. ========== NOTICE OF CONSENSUS The following rule has been agreed upon by all entities named by the List of Voters, and shall therefore be added to the set of rules: Rule of Girls Notices of Consensus are considered to be printed on coloured paper. Any electronic document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus is only deemed to be so if it clearly describes what colour paper it is printed on. ========== adam From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 01:14:12 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAdj1-0005PD-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:14:11 +0100 Received: from 159-134-128-114.as1.pal.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.128.114]:1025 helo=[192.168.0.248]) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.155]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CAdix-0006iM-Eo (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:14:08 +0100 From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1095984771.4148.8.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=2.646, RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.55, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) X-Cam-SpamScore: ss Subject: [Nomic] The Grid Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 01:15:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:12:51 +0100 A proposal to give some substance to the game. === Bored Of Being Board There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). === Martin From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Fri Sep 24 01:24:16 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAdsm-0005bm-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:24:16 +0100 Received: from bay24-f35.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.85]:3668 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAdsf-0007wJ-92 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:24:09 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:24:02 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:23:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] The Grid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2004 00:24:02.0425 (UTC) FILETIME=[CAFDD690:01C4A1CC] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 01:25:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:23:23 +0100 > >A proposal to give some substance to the game. > >=== >Bored Of Being Board > >There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of >Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of >entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If >at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The >Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). >=== Aye JJ _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 02:21:00 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAelg-00074x-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 02:21:00 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:51085) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAeld-0003MK-Op (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 02:20:57 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAelb-00033i-0R for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:20:55 +0000 Message-ID: <41537675.4080207@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] The Grid References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 02:21:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 02:20:53 +0100 John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >> >> A proposal to give some substance to the game. >> >> === >> Bored Of Being Board >> >> There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of >> Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of >> entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If >> at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The >> Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). >> === > > Aye > Aye From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 02:58:56 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAfMO-0007mN-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 02:58:56 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:43169) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAfMK-0000v4-IK (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 02:58:52 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAfMK-0001i6-4C for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:58:52 +0000 Message-ID: <41537F5A.4000707@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal: The Database of DOOOOOOOOOOOOM Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 02:59:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 02:58:50 +0100 This complies of the following rules: The Database of DOOOOOOOOOOOOM While a player is attempting to gain a consensus of opinion, they enter it into the Proposals section of the AutoNomic, as well as sending a copy to the email list. Members of the List of Voters who have changed the AutoNomic to display them as "For" a proposal have given unambiguous consent to it. The Rules section of the AutoNomic should be updated to reflect changes in game state. This shall be the responsibility of whichever entity made the action that changed the game state, or The BOFH if they are not available. --- The BOFH The BOFH is Stuart Moore --- [End of proposal] The 2nd rule is to get round the fact that we don't have a committee at the moment. Basically I think the AutoNomic script is now working well, it's at http://www.srcf.ucam.org/nomic/nomic.cgi Everyone has an account on it now, log in using the email address you are subscribed with. All actions are logged and can be traced back to you. Your password is stored encrypted on the machine. Proposals cannot be edited, a new one must be created and the old one deleted. This is deliberate so votes can't transfer over to a new version. Rules can be edited. I will put a "Guest Account" in at some point so spectators can view. If you want to fiddle with the script to test it, use http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~stjm2/nomic.cgi instead to avoid mucking up the rules I've put in. From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 03:12:29 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAfZV-0008Ar-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:12:29 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:46771) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAfZS-00004w-FB (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:12:26 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAfZS-0003aO-0n for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 02:12:26 +0000 Message-ID: <41538288.4040700@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Keep up at the back Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 03:13:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:12:24 +0100 Proposal to make the following rule: "Keep up at the back" At noon every Sunday, the Member of the List of Voters who has issued the fewest "Notice of Consensus" in the previous week has their pseudonym in the "List of Handles" changed to "Slowcoach". In the event of a tie for the fewest "Notice of Consensus" in a week, all those tieing must declare publically "I'm not slow". The remaining member when all others tieing have declared "I'm not slow" has their pseudonym changed to "Slowcoach". If another member of the List of Voters had "Slowcoach" as a pseudonym, their pseudonym is now null. [End of Proposal] This does little at the moment, but other rules can refer to the Slowcoach as we get moving. From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 03:14:26 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAfbO-0008Dn-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:14:26 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:49679) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAfbI-0000PV-EP (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:14:20 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAfbI-0004Tt-6S for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 02:14:20 +0000 Message-ID: <415382FB.3050509@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Passwords Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 03:15:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:14:19 +0100 I forgot to mention - everyone's password is set to "pass" at the moment. Stuart From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 09:26:29 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAlPR-0000DU-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:26:29 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:48573) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAlPP-00061Q-7K (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:26:27 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAlPP-0004CE-6K for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:26:27 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] The Grid X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: <1095984771.4148.8.camel@mewo2> Message-ID: References: <1095984771.4148.8.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 09:27:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 09:26:27 +0100 On Sep 24 2004, Martin O'Leary wrote: > === > Bored Of Being Board > > There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of > Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of > entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If > at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The > Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). > === I consent. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 09:36:39 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAlZH-0000ZP-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:36:39 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50358) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAlZF-0000J1-EJ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:36:37 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAlZF-00060s-DL for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:36:37 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: The Database of DOOOOOOOOOOOOM X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: <41537F5A.4000707@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <41537F5A.4000707@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 09:37:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 09:36:37 +0100 On Sep 24 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > This complies of the following rules: > > The Database of DOOOOOOOOOOOOM > While a player is attempting to gain a consensus of opinion, they enter > it into the Proposals section of the AutoNomic, as well as sending a > copy to the email list. > > Members of the List of Voters who have changed the AutoNomic to display > them as "For" a proposal have given unambiguous consent to it. > > The Rules section of the AutoNomic should be updated to reflect changes > in game state. This shall be the responsibility of whichever entity made > the action that changed the game state, or The BOFH if they are not > available. > --- > The BOFH > The BOFH is Stuart Moore > --- Ok, the more minor objection first: this rule isn't clear enough. "They enter it into the Proposals section of the AutoNomic" - so what happens if they don't? We can't say "players must do this", or the rules cease to have meaning as soon as someone doesn't do what the rules say they must. (I see the rules of a Nomic game as being descriptive, not prescriptive - that is, they don't mandate any actions which must be taken by extranomic entities, they only say what occurs when extranomic entities *do* take actions which might affect the game.) Secondly, I don't want to see the game give actual authority to any kind of computer program. I recognise that it may be a useful tool for keeping track of things, but I suggest that the folowing would be a better paradigm of operation: players use the AutoNomic, if they wish to, to track who has consented to their own proposals. If instead they wish to use another method, that's fine. Players are, as ever, responsible for issuing their own Notices of Consensus once they determine by their means of choice that all voters have given consent. See upcoming proposals. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 09:39:27 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAlby-0000f7-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:39:26 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50790) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAlbv-00014k-P1 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:39:23 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAlbv-0006Up-O1 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:39:23 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Keep up at the back X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: <41538288.4040700@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <41538288.4040700@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 09:40:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 09:39:23 +0100 On Sep 24 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Proposal to make the following rule: > > "Keep up at the back" I object to this proposal. First, I don't think anyone should have pseudonym changes forced upon them. Secondly, it seems as though you're intending to penalise players with a low involvement in the game, which isn't something I want to see, since I'd like the game to be open to players who don't necessarily want to have a high commitment to it. Thirdly, special rules referring to the Slowcoach wouldn't be interesting, since by definition the Slowcoach is a player with low involvement in the game. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 09:49:16 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAllU-00012N-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:49:16 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:52503) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAllQ-0007JV-J2 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:49:12 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAllQ-0008Hp-I7 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:49:12 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 09:50:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 09:49:12 +0100 I would like to make the following six proposals, all of which create new rules and two of which are mutually contradictory: ---------- The Party Knows Best The game shall contain a Ministry which is a mapping of role names to extranomic entities. If a role has a duty defined by the rules, and that role is currently occupied by an extranomic entity, then that entity is encouraged to perform the tasks specified by that duty. ---------- ---------- Minister of Truth The duty of the Minister of Truth shall be to make available to all players a reasonably current summary of the current proposals upon which consensus has not been reached, and the standings of all members of the List of Voters with respect to those proposals. ---------- ---------- Minister of Freedom The duty of the Minister of Freedom shall be to make available to all players a reasonably current summary of the current state of the rules of the game. ---------- ---------- Mike Is Not A Window Cleaner The Minister of Truth shall be Mike Cripps. ---------- ---------- Stumo Is Possibly A Window Cleaner The Minister of Truth shall be Stuart Moore. ---------- ---------- Adam Lives Underground Anyway The Minister of Freedom shall be Adam Biltcliffe. ---------- There you have it. I've made two nominations for Minister of Truth, since Mike was the first to suggest he'd like to fulfil that role, but Stumo has an exciting computer program to do it for him, and has also nominated himself for a similar role. I suggest I should be Minister of Freedom since I'm doing it anyway and it may as well be official. adam From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Sep 24 10:46:22 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAmek-0003Eh-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:46:22 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:42769) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAmeb-0003yQ-UL (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:46:13 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAmeY-0007c1-00; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:46:10 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAmaZ-0004d4-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:42:03 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposals -- Simplification Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 10:47:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:42:03 +0100 I think either of these produce a better and simpler wording... Proposal the first: ==== Change Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion to read: --- A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists if: a) one entity named on the List of Voters (the proposer) makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters. b) either: i) All other entities on the List of Voters unambiguously consent to the proposal. ii) 72 hours have passed since the most recent version of the proposal and no entity on the List of Voters has vetoed it. c) The proposer posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. --- ==== Proposal the second (with one-off wording): ==== Change Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion to read: --- A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists if: a) one entity named on the List of Voters (the proposer) makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters. b) either: i) All other entities on the List of Voters unambiguously consent to the proposal. ii) 72 hours have passed since the most recent version of the proposal and no more than one entity on the List of Voters has vetoed it. c) The proposer posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. --- ==== From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 10:58:55 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAmqs-0003gP-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:58:54 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:49482) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAmqn-00050y-RJ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:58:49 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAmql-000673-90 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:58:47 +0000 Message-ID: <4153EFD5.8060802@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals -- Simplification References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 10:59:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:58:45 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I think either of these produce a better and simpler wording... > > Proposal the first: > ==== > Change Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion to read: > --- > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists if: > a) one entity named on the List of Voters (the proposer) makes > a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on > the List of Voters. > b) either: > i) All other entities on the List of Voters unambiguously consent > to the proposal. > ii) 72 hours have passed since the most recent version of the > proposal and no entity on the List of Voters has vetoed it. > c) The proposer posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other > members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has > been reached. > --- Aye > ==== > > Proposal the second (with one-off wording): > ==== > Change Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion to read: > --- > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists if: > a) one entity named on the List of Voters (the proposer) makes > a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on > the List of Voters. > b) either: > i) All other entities on the List of Voters unambiguously consent > to the proposal. > ii) 72 hours have passed since the most recent version of the > proposal and no more than one entity on the List of Voters has > vetoed it. > c) The proposer posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other > members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has > been reached. > --- > ==== Nay From mikec@mxtelecom.com Fri Sep 24 11:12:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAn3m-0004K4-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:12:14 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:48442 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAn3h-0007Ve-GY (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:12:09 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CAn3S-0003ly-6K for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:11:54 +0100 Message-ID: <4153F2DD.3050800@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal: My Head Hurts Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 11:13:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:11:41 +0100 I propose: At no time shall there be more 'active proposals' (defined as "proposals waiting for entities on the List of Voters to vote on them, and not yet passed or annulled) than number of entities on the List of Voters. Suggestions? Mike From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 11:16:04 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAn7U-0004RL-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:16:04 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:39812) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAn7P-0002RJ-Qm (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:15:59 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAn7P-00042m-Cz for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:15:59 +0000 Message-ID: <4153F3DF.2040804@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: My Head Hurts References: <4153F2DD.3050800@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: <4153F2DD.3050800@mxtelecom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 11:17:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:15:59 +0100 Mike Cripps wrote: > I propose: > > At no time shall there be more 'active proposals' (defined as "proposals > waiting for entities on the List of Voters to vote on them, and not yet > passed or annulled) than number of entities on the List of Voters. > > Suggestions? > > Mike > > 1) Do we have a formal procedure to annul a proposal yet? 2) Are you saying no more proposals can be made? 3) Since this doesn't equate to "one each", it'll end up with people coming up with better ideas and not being able to put them forward. From mikec@mxtelecom.com Fri Sep 24 11:18:30 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAn9p-0004UY-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:18:29 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:48533 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAn9Z-000117-C5 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:18:13 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CAn9T-0003tA-O8 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:18:07 +0100 Message-ID: <4153F454.3010701@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: My Head Hurts References: <4153F2DD.3050800@mxtelecom.com> <4153F3DF.2040804@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4153F3DF.2040804@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 11:19:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:17:56 +0100 Stuart Moore wrote: > Mike Cripps wrote: > >> I propose: >> >> At no time shall there be more 'active proposals' (defined as >> "proposals waiting for entities on the List of Voters to vote on them, >> and not yet passed or annulled) than number of entities on the List of >> Voters. >> >> Suggestions? >> >> Mike >> >> > > 1) Do we have a formal procedure to annul a proposal yet? > 2) Are you saying no more proposals can be made? > 3) Since this doesn't equate to "one each", it'll end up with people > coming up with better ideas and not being able to put them forward. > 1) Sorry, by 'annul' I meant 'vetoed' but couldn't think of the word. 2) no? 3) then veto the original ones or vote on them damn it! ;) Mike From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Sep 24 11:31:10 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAnM6-0004rx-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:31:10 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:46843) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAnM1-0004JC-H9 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:31:05 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAnM0-0003b2-00; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:31:04 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAnG7-0004uK-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:24:59 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal -- Back Here Again Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 11:32:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:24:59 +0100 Back Here Again http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lookaroundyou/periodic.shtml is the official Periodic Table for the game. From mikec@mxtelecom.com Fri Sep 24 11:33:17 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAnO9-0004wV-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:33:17 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:48780 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAnO4-0004uv-Mo (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:33:12 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CAnNu-0004Cu-9w for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:33:02 +0100 Message-ID: <4153F7D2.1010408@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Back Here Again References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 11:34:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:32:50 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Back Here Again > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lookaroundyou/periodic.shtml is the > official Periodic Table for the game. > Aye! From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 11:34:54 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAnPi-0004zU-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:34:54 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:35645) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAnPY-0002QY-QR (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:34:44 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAnPY-0006DV-8d for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:34:44 +0000 Message-ID: <4153F844.7090506@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Back Here Again References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 11:35:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:34:44 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Back Here Again > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lookaroundyou/periodic.shtml is the > official Periodic Table for the game. > Aye I'm Standing, Standing, Standing Standing on a Podium (A podium, a podium) For Twenty Minutes or so... From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 11:42:05 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAnWf-0005DE-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:42:05 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.192]:33995 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAnWV-0007eD-9B (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:41:55 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so186324rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.54 with SMTP id 54mr272493rnh; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.40 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Consent In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 11:43:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:41:48 +0100 On 23 Sep 2004 23:20:31 +0100, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 23 2004, Carrie Oliver wrote: > > [On removal of requirement of unanimity] > > > Nay. I disagree. We have passed quite a few rules without this, I > > really don't feel it is necessary. > > I'd like to go on the record as stating that I do feel it would be good to > eventually move away from allowing a single dissenter to block passage of a > new rule that's overwhelmingly accepted by the other players. > > adam > > Well, maybe if a lot more player join but at the moment I really don't think its an issue Carrie > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 11:58:39 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAnmh-0005jm-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:58:39 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:59002) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAnmd-0001Fy-Tu (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:58:35 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAnmc-0005XR-N2 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:58:34 +0000 Message-ID: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Money Money Money Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 11:59:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:58:34 +0100 How's this for an idea (each rule is a separate proposal, although without the first they make little sense) Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" --- Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with balance zero. --- Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" --- Each member of the list of voters will have their BANK accounts increased by one currency unit at midnight each night. --- Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" --- On distribution of a valid Notice of Consensus, each member of the list of voters shall have the contents of their BANK account multiplied by 1.2 and rounded up to an integer amount. --- I'm not sure what we'll do with them yet. I was thinking about being able to spend money to get a consensus of opinion, if people haven't all agreed, but I haven't got a method I'm happy with From mikec@mxtelecom.com Fri Sep 24 11:59:58 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAnnx-0005ly-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:59:58 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:49268 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAnnu-0001cL-QQ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:59:54 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CAnno-0004m4-A6 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:59:48 +0100 Message-ID: <4153FE19.8030705@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Twice the fun; harf the harf! References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:00:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:59:37 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Twice the fun; harf the harf! > > A proposed rules change may be described as harfy. > > A proposed rules change can only become harfy if: > a) No other proposed rules change is harfy. > b) The Harfharfer declares that it is harfy. > c) It was not proposed by the current Harfharfer. > > If a harfy rules change takes place then the following events happen: > a) The entity which proposed the rules change gains one chocolate > biscuit. > b) The entity which proposed the rules change becomes the Harfharfer; > the previous Harfharfer ceases to be the Harfharfer. > c) If the rule change created a rule, then that rule may also be > described as harfy. > > If there is no harfy rules change for three days, but there exist > non-harfy proposed rules changes for that entire period, then the > Harfharfer is guilty of the Crime of Hogging the Harf. > > The standard punishment for the Crime of Hogging the Harf shall be > confiscation of two chocolate biscuits. > > Adam Biltcliffe becomes the Harfharfer; The Rule of Girls may be > described as harfy; and this paragraph is deleted from the rules. > Nay Mike From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 12:02:38 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAnqY-0005ya-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:02:38 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.196]:60566 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAnqS-0001Sp-IO (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:02:32 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so189313rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.11.80 with SMTP id 80mr272381rnk; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.40 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Keep up at the back In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <41538288.4040700@cam.ac.uk> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:03:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:02:24 +0100 On 24 Sep 2004 09:39:23 +0100, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 24 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > > > Proposal to make the following rule: > > > > "Keep up at the back" > > I object to this proposal. First, I don't think anyone should have > pseudonym changes forced upon them. Secondly, it seems as though you're > intending to penalise players with a low involvement in the game, which > isn't something I want to see, since I'd like the game to be open to > players who don't necessarily want to have a high commitment to it. > Thirdly, special rules referring to the Slowcoach wouldn't be interesting, > since by definition the Slowcoach is a player with low involvement in the > game. > > adam > I disagree too. I don't intend to propose many rules so I don't see why I should be punished for this. Nay Carrie > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 12:10:17 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAnxw-0006Ew-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:10:16 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]:38774 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAnxo-0002Vb-2W (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:10:08 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so190632rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.54 with SMTP id 54mr273001rnh; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.40 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money In-Reply-To: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:11:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:10:02 +0100 On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:58:34 +0100, Stuart Moore wrote: > How's this for an idea (each rule is a separate proposal, although > without the first they make little sense) > > Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" > --- > Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with > The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account > consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with > balance zero. > --- > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" > --- > Each member of the list of voters will have their BANK accounts > increased by one currency unit at midnight each night. > --- > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" > --- > On distribution of a valid Notice of Consensus, each member of the list > of voters shall have the contents of their BANK account multiplied by > 1.2 and rounded up to an integer amount. > --- > > I'm not sure what we'll do with them yet. I was thinking about being > able to spend money to get a consensus of opinion, if people haven't all > agreed, but I haven't got a method I'm happy with Nay. This once again seems biased toward people who submit many proposals. > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 12:11:13 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAnyr-0006HR-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:11:13 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.207]:37468 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAnyi-0000hW-Pc (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:11:04 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so190760rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.11.80 with SMTP id 80mr272557rnk; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.40 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Twice the fun; harf the harf! In-Reply-To: <4153FE19.8030705@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4153FE19.8030705@mxtelecom.com> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:12:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:10:52 +0100 On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:59:37 +0100, Mike Cripps wrote: > Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > Twice the fun; harf the harf! > > > > A proposed rules change may be described as harfy. > > > > A proposed rules change can only become harfy if: > > a) No other proposed rules change is harfy. > > b) The Harfharfer declares that it is harfy. > > c) It was not proposed by the current Harfharfer. > > > > If a harfy rules change takes place then the following events happen: > > a) The entity which proposed the rules change gains one chocolate > > biscuit. > > b) The entity which proposed the rules change becomes the Harfharfer; > > the previous Harfharfer ceases to be the Harfharfer. > > c) If the rule change created a rule, then that rule may also be > > described as harfy. > > > > If there is no harfy rules change for three days, but there exist > > non-harfy proposed rules changes for that entire period, then the > > Harfharfer is guilty of the Crime of Hogging the Harf. > > > > The standard punishment for the Crime of Hogging the Harf shall be > > confiscation of two chocolate biscuits. > > > > Adam Biltcliffe becomes the Harfharfer; The Rule of Girls may be > > described as harfy; and this paragraph is deleted from the rules. > > > Nay > > Mike > Nay on two accounts: 1. I don't understand it 2. its not original Carrie > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 12:11:47 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAnzP-0006IB-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:11:47 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.198]:40365 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAnzH-0004Ur-18 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:11:39 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so190833rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.11.80 with SMTP id 80mr272568rnk; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.40 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals -- Simplification In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:12:03 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:11:32 +0100 On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:42:03 +0100, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I think either of these produce a better and simpler wording... > > Proposal the first: > ==== > Change Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion to read: > --- > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists if: > a) one entity named on the List of Voters (the proposer) makes > a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on > the List of Voters. > b) either: > i) All other entities on the List of Voters unambiguously consent > to the proposal. > ii) 72 hours have passed since the most recent version of the > proposal and no entity on the List of Voters has vetoed it. > c) The proposer posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other > members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has > been reached. > --- > ==== Aye > > Proposal the second (with one-off wording): > ==== > Change Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion to read: > --- > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists if: > a) one entity named on the List of Voters (the proposer) makes > a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on > the List of Voters. > b) either: > i) All other entities on the List of Voters unambiguously consent > to the proposal. > ii) 72 hours have passed since the most recent version of the > proposal and no more than one entity on the List of Voters has > vetoed it. > c) The proposer posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other > members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has > been reached. > --- > ==== > Nay Carrie > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 12:13:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAo0i-0006Ka-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:13:08 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:55597) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAo0C-0001J8-G9 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:12:36 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAo07-00088H-NQ for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:12:31 +0000 Message-ID: <4154011F.2040509@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:14:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:12:31 +0100 Carrie Oliver wrote: > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:58:34 +0100, Stuart Moore wrote: > >>How's this for an idea (each rule is a separate proposal, although >>without the first they make little sense) >> >>Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" >>--- >>Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with >>The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account >>consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with >>balance zero. >>--- >> >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" >>--- >>Each member of the list of voters will have their BANK accounts >>increased by one currency unit at midnight each night. >>--- >> >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" >>--- >>On distribution of a valid Notice of Consensus, each member of the list >>of voters shall have the contents of their BANK account multiplied by >>1.2 and rounded up to an integer amount. >>--- >> >>I'm not sure what we'll do with them yet. I was thinking about being >>able to spend money to get a consensus of opinion, if people haven't all >>agreed, but I haven't got a method I'm happy with > > > Nay. This once again seems biased toward people who submit many proposals. > > It's possible to go for the first two without having the 3rd, if you think money should be independent of the number of proposals From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 12:13:57 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAo1V-0006M8-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:13:57 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.199]:51034 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAo1P-0005CE-OV (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:13:51 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so191217rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.11.80 with SMTP id 80mr272615rnk; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.40 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:14:04 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:13:43 +0100 On 24 Sep 2004 09:49:12 +0100, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > I would like to make the following six proposals, all of which create new > rules and two of which are mutually contradictory: > > ---------- > The Party Knows Best > > The game shall contain a Ministry which is a mapping of role names to > extranomic entities. If a role has a duty defined by the rules, and that > role is currently occupied by an extranomic entity, then that entity is > encouraged to perform the tasks specified by that duty. ---------- Aye. I guess I should also take back my consent for JJ's proposal of a committee if I am supporting this. > > ---------- > Minister of Truth > > The duty of the Minister of Truth shall be to make available to all players > a reasonably current summary of the current proposals upon which consensus > has not been reached, and the standings of all members of the List of > Voters with respect to those proposals. ---------- > Aye > ---------- > Minister of Freedom > > The duty of the Minister of Freedom shall be to make available to all > players a reasonably current summary of the current state of the rules of > the game. ---------- > Aye > ---------- > Mike Is Not A Window Cleaner > > The Minister of Truth shall be Mike Cripps. > ---------- > Aye > ---------- > Stumo Is Possibly A Window Cleaner > > The Minister of Truth shall be Stuart Moore. > ---------- > Nay > ---------- > Adam Lives Underground Anyway > > The Minister of Freedom shall be Adam Biltcliffe. > ---------- > You are? Well I don't see any evidence of it. Prove it to me and I may say aye. > There you have it. I've made two nominations for Minister of Truth, since > Mike was the first to suggest he'd like to fulfil that role, but Stumo has > an exciting computer program to do it for him, and has also nominated > himself for a similar role. I suggest I should be Minister of Freedom since > I'm doing it anyway and it may as well be official. > > adam > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 12:15:13 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAo2j-0006PK-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:15:13 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]:62211 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAo2g-0006RT-3e (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:15:10 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so191452rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.54 with SMTP id 54mr273114rnh; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.40 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] The Grid In-Reply-To: <1095984771.4148.8.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1095984771.4148.8.camel@mewo2> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:16:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:15:02 +0100 On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:12:51 +0100, Martin O'Leary wrote: > A proposal to give some substance to the game. > > === > Bored Of Being Board > > There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of > Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of > entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If > at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The > Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). > === > > Martin > Aye > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 12:16:25 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAo3t-0006SR-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:16:25 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.196]:63007 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAo3l-0002Xs-KP (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:16:17 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v18so3120870rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.179.69 with SMTP id b69mr272929rnf; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.40 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money In-Reply-To: <4154011F.2040509@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <4154011F.2040509@cam.ac.uk> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:17:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:16:11 +0100 On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:12:31 +0100, Stuart Moore wrote: > Carrie Oliver wrote: > > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:58:34 +0100, Stuart Moore wrote: > > > >>How's this for an idea (each rule is a separate proposal, although > >>without the first they make little sense) > >> > >>Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" > >>--- > >>Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with > >>The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account > >>consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with > >>balance zero. > >>--- > >> > >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" > >>--- > >>Each member of the list of voters will have their BANK accounts > >>increased by one currency unit at midnight each night. > >>--- > >> > >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" > >>--- > >>On distribution of a valid Notice of Consensus, each member of the list > >>of voters shall have the contents of their BANK account multiplied by > >>1.2 and rounded up to an integer amount. > >>--- > >> > >>I'm not sure what we'll do with them yet. I was thinking about being > >>able to spend money to get a consensus of opinion, if people haven't all > >>agreed, but I haven't got a method I'm happy with > > > > > > Nay. This once again seems biased toward people who submit many proposals. > > > > > > It's possible to go for the first two without having the 3rd, if you > think money should be independent of the number of proposals > > Oh, true. Hmmmm... lets see. Aye to the first 2. Nay to the last. CArrie > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 12:17:06 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAo4Y-0006UD-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:17:06 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.204]:4172 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAo4V-0007CP-7T (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:17:03 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so191759rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.11.80 with SMTP id 80mr272689rnk; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.40 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Spooky Action At A Distance In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:18:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:16:58 +0100 On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:25:12 +0100, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > ((Note to the mailinglistmaintainer -- please reject the copy I sent > > from the wrong account!)) > > Spooky Action At A Distance > > > > A voter may declare that a rules change that they have proposed is > > entwined with another existing proposed rules change. > > > > A rules change cannot be considered to have a Consensus of Opinion in > > favour of it if any rules changed that it has been entwined with has > > already recieved a Consensus of Opinion. > > > > Add to the bottom of this proposed rule: > > This rule overrides "Rule 4, Concensus of Opinion". > > Nay > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 12:17:44 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAo5A-0006VB-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:17:44 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.204]:6676 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAo53-0006Tb-VU (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:17:38 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v18so3121120rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.179.69 with SMTP id b69mr272954rnf; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.40 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- But I can't hear it! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:18:04 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:17:31 +0100 On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:24:49 +0100, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > But I can't hear it! > > /* -- REM, Radio Song */ > > Any text in a rule between C-style comment delimiters; as demonstrated > above; has no rules effect, and exists only as a comment. Nay > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 12:21:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAo8U-0006cR-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:21:10 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:43056) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAo7r-0000EE-U7 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:20:31 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAo7l-0005GI-9w for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:20:25 +0000 Message-ID: <415402F9.90505@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:22:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:20:25 +0100 Stuart Moore wrote: > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" > --- > On distribution of a valid Notice of Consensus, each member of the list > of voters shall have the contents of their BANK account multiplied by > 1.2 and rounded up to an integer amount. > --- > It has been pointed out that as this is currently worded, all players would find their balance increased (not just the one who made the proposal). Not quite what I originally intended, but since it's there might as well leave it in. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Sep 24 12:31:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAoIE-0006si-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:31:14 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:52167) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAoI3-0000ZM-V7 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:31:03 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAoI3-0001ST-00; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:31:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAoCh-0005T8-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:25:31 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] The Grid In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:15:02 BST." References: <1095984771.4148.8.camel@mewo2> From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:32:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:25:31 +0100 > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:12:51 +0100, Martin O'Leary wrote: > > A proposal to give some substance to the game. > > > > === > > Bored Of Being Board > > > > There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of > > Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of > > entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If > > at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The > > Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). > > === > > > > Martin > > > > Aye > Aye-aye! From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Sep 24 12:31:21 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAoIK-0006sz-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:31:20 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:52186) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAoIF-0007A1-H9 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:31:15 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAoID-0001ST-00; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:31:13 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAoBu-0005Rx-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:24:42 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:12:31 BST." <4154011F.2040509@cam.ac.uk> References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <4154011F.2040509@cam.ac.uk> From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:32:03 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:24:42 +0100 > Carrie Oliver wrote: > > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:58:34 +0100, Stuart Moore wrote: > > > >>How's this for an idea (each rule is a separate proposal, although > >>without the first they make little sense) > >> > >>Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" > >>--- > >>Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with > >>The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account > >>consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with > >>balance zero. > >>--- > >> > >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" > >>--- > >>Each member of the list of voters will have their BANK accounts > >>increased by one currency unit at midnight each night. > >>--- > >> > >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" > >>--- > >>On distribution of a valid Notice of Consensus, each member of the list > >>of voters shall have the contents of their BANK account multiplied by > >>1.2 and rounded up to an integer amount. > >>--- > >> > >>I'm not sure what we'll do with them yet. I was thinking about being > >>able to spend money to get a consensus of opinion, if people haven't all > >>agreed, but I haven't got a method I'm happy with > > > > > > Nay. This once again seems biased toward people who submit many proposals. > > > > > > It's possible to go for the first two without having the 3rd, if you > think money should be independent of the number of proposals > Aye to all three. WC. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Sep 24 12:31:28 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAoIS-0006tE-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:31:28 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:52192) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAoIG-0000fu-4g (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:31:16 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAoIF-0001ST-00; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:31:15 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAoAS-0005Pk-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:23:12 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Twice the fun; harf the harf! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:10:52 BST." References: <4153FE19.8030705@mxtelecom.com> From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:32:06 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:23:12 +0100 > Nay on two accounts: 1. I don't understand it 2. its not original > If we only do original things then we'll get nothing done... :) WC. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Sep 24 12:31:29 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAoIT-0006tM-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:31:29 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:52175) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAoIA-00030D-JO (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:31:10 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CAoI4-0001ST-01; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:31:05 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAoCQ-0005Sc-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:25:14 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:13:43 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:32:08 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:25:14 +0100 > > The Party Knows Best > > Minister of Truth > > Minister of Freedom > > Mike Is Not A Window Cleaner > > Stumo Is Possibly A Window Cleaner > > Adam Lives Underground Anyway Aye to all of these. From mikec@mxtelecom.com Fri Sep 24 12:34:35 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAoLT-00071f-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:34:35 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:49812 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAoL2-00042Z-HH (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:34:08 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CAoKf-0005QZ-0K for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:33:45 +0100 Message-ID: <4154060D.10708@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:35:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:33:33 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > I would like to make the following six proposals, all of which create > new rules and two of which are mutually contradictory: > > ---------- > The Party Knows Best > > The game shall contain a Ministry which is a mapping of role names to > extranomic entities. If a role has a duty defined by the rules, and that > role is currently occupied by an extranomic entity, then that entity is > encouraged to perform the tasks specified by that duty. ---------- Aye > > ---------- > Minister of Truth > > The duty of the Minister of Truth shall be to make available to all > players a reasonably current summary of the current proposals upon which > consensus has not been reached, and the standings of all members of the > List of Voters with respect to those proposals. ---------- > > ---------- Aye > Minister of Freedom > > The duty of the Minister of Freedom shall be to make available to all > players a reasonably current summary of the current state of the rules > of the game. ---------- > Aye > ---------- > Mike Is Not A Window Cleaner > > The Minister of Truth shall be Mike Cripps. > ---------- > Aye > ---------- > Stumo Is Possibly A Window Cleaner > > The Minister of Truth shall be Stuart Moore. > ---------- > Nay > ---------- > Adam Lives Underground Anyway > > The Minister of Freedom shall be Adam Biltcliffe. > ---------- > Aye From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 12:34:43 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAoLb-00072L-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:34:43 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:40273) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAoLQ-00024j-8l (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:34:32 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAoLO-00065o-Jx for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:34:30 +0000 Message-ID: <41540646.1010104@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:35:04 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:34:30 +0100 Aye to all, but when one of the "Window Cleaner" ones becomes a rule, I remove my consent to the other one. Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > I would like to make the following six proposals, all of which create > new rules and two of which are mutually contradictory: > > ---------- > The Party Knows Best > > The game shall contain a Ministry which is a mapping of role names to > extranomic entities. If a role has a duty defined by the rules, and that > role is currently occupied by an extranomic entity, then that entity is > encouraged to perform the tasks specified by that duty. ---------- > > ---------- > Minister of Truth > > The duty of the Minister of Truth shall be to make available to all > players a reasonably current summary of the current proposals upon which > consensus has not been reached, and the standings of all members of the > List of Voters with respect to those proposals. ---------- > > ---------- > Minister of Freedom > > The duty of the Minister of Freedom shall be to make available to all > players a reasonably current summary of the current state of the rules > of the game. ---------- > > ---------- > Mike Is Not A Window Cleaner > > The Minister of Truth shall be Mike Cripps. > ---------- > > ---------- > Stumo Is Possibly A Window Cleaner > > The Minister of Truth shall be Stuart Moore. > ---------- > > ---------- > Adam Lives Underground Anyway > > The Minister of Freedom shall be Adam Biltcliffe. > ---------- > > There you have it. I've made two nominations for Minister of Truth, > since Mike was the first to suggest he'd like to fulfil that role, but > Stumo has an exciting computer program to do it for him, and has also > nominated himself for a similar role. I suggest I should be Minister of > Freedom since I'm doing it anyway and it may as well be official. > > adam > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 12:56:46 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAogw-000837-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:56:46 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.196]:4259 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAogs-00032L-Bk (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:56:42 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v18so3127786rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.179.69 with SMTP id b69mr273794rnf; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.40 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 04:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Twice the fun; harf the harf! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4153FE19.8030705@mxtelecom.com> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 12:57:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:56:36 +0100 On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:23:12 +0100, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > Nay on two accounts: 1. I don't understand it 2. its not original > > > If we only do original things then we'll get nothing done... :) > > WC. > I agree but this is just taking it too far. Sowwy Carrie > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 14:10:50 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CApqc-0002gV-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:10:50 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:52586) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CApqY-0002DP-Qo (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:10:46 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CApqY-00021Q-Pj for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:10:46 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: No finality X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 14:11:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 14:10:46 +0100 You could just have rule 0 overrule the rule that lets you overrule things, by name, and then "all other rules" wouldn't need naming. On Sep 23 2004, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 23 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > > No finality > > > > In the event of someone winning the game then the following occur: > > > > a) They are recognised to have won the game. > > b) All gameplay stops, except as mandated by this rule. > > c) A new rule is created with the following text: > > --- > > 0, No fun here > > > > It is not possible to win the game. This rule takes precidence over > > all other rules. > > --- > > d) If it is possible for play to proceed then gameplay resumes. > > e) If it is not possible for play to proceed then the player who won > > the game may make whatever changes they wish to the rules for the > > purpose of allowing gameplay to continue; except that they may not > > change rule 0. > > f) Gameplay resumes. > > This seems to be about the right spirit, but the implementation is > flawed. Specifically, Rule 0, if created as above, would not be permitted > to override any rules which state that it is possible to win the game, > since it doesn't name them explicitly, and so a contradiction would be > created. I suggest a simpler proposal along the lines of "If a player > wins, they . Winning the game does > not cause the game to end." > > adam > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 14:45:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAqNo-0003wN-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:45:08 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:60197) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAqNk-0004Qg-GB (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:45:04 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAqNk-0000jI-FB for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:45:04 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Catching up on votes. Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 14:46:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 14:45:04 +0100 "But I can't hear it" - Nay. I'd be inclined to agree if you'd used html comments though. "Twice the fun - Harf the half" - Yay, and I counterpropose that Mike is guilty of the crime of boringusness. "Spooky action at a distance" - You -could- just put in the two proposals taht the other proposals cannot be passed as port of the proposal. However this is easier. Abstain. I consent to the grid, but would prefer the rule to be called "the grid" than "bored of being board." "The database of doom" - No thanks. I think we -should- do as you say, but I don't think it should be in the rules. "Keep up at the back" - Mike has nayed every proposal I've made so far, which demonstrates how easy it currently is for someone to force this on someone else :) I nay this one. I vote "yay" to all six proposals adam made in his email about ministers, and therefore have no part in deciding who cleans my windows. I vote Aye to The wild card's first rewording proposal for rule 4. I vote nay for "my head hurts" - at one point yesterday we had 18 proposals, and also if one person makes six simultaneous proposals (*coughAdamcough*) that basically stops everyone else doing things. It also slows down the game. Big nay here. Although my head does hurt. I'll vote yay for the periodic hable. After all, I have it as a wallpaper on my machine, and have easy access to it. The file can be found at http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~dtb26/periodic.bmp (<2.4 meg) I vote yay to all three proposals about BANK accounts, and point out to carrie that at the moment when a proposal is passed, ALL players have their accounts multiplied by 1.2 and rounded up... therefore it's completely unbiased. I have updated Stumo's autonomic with the votes I've made, for the proposals that are actually there. -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 15:18:23 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAqtz-0005E4-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:18:23 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:39228) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAqtu-0006RJ-9C (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:18:18 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAqtu-0007Yr-7T for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:18:18 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] A monopoly? Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 15:19:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 15:18:18 +0100 I propose the following rules. These rules are counter-entwined... i.e. I'd like them to be passed as a group. "The whole world in your hand" Any voter may claim to be in possession of any extranomic entity so long as they mention it by name. These claims need not be unique, so, for example, all players may claim to possess the crown jewels. voters may claim to posses as many extranomic entities that they want, however may not claim to posses any entity currently named in the nomic rules. "The contents of vault 37A" One voter shall be appointed to the role of "vaultmaster" Should there ever be no vaultmaster, a new one may be appointed by any voter submitting a proposal to appoint one from the list of voters. The vaultmaster's duty shall be to make available to all voters a list of possessions currently being claimed by each voter. Should the ministry exist, the vaultmaster shall be a ministry position. When this rule is passed, David Birch shall be appointed Vaultmaster, and this sentence will be removed from the rules. "Monopoly!" If any voter claims to be in possession of a large number of any extranomic entity, (defined to be 100 + the sum total of instances of that entity claimed by other voters,) any voter may claim they have a monopoly on that entity, (known hereafter as the "target",) and cause the "monopolies commission effect" having the following effect: The target must find an extranomic monopoly set, with complete chance and community chest packs. They chose one of these packs, and draw a card at random. 1.) If that card would have a positive effect on a player within an extranomic game of monopoly, the target creates a "monopoly" on their extranomic entity, and may claim to posses all instances of that entity. All other players lose any instances of that entity they claim to have, and the vaultmaster shall publish to all voters that a monopoly is owned on that entity. No voter may then claim to posses that entity other than the monopoly holder. In the case that the target now owns more than two monopolies they must decide to abandon monopolies until they have two or less. 2.) If the card would have a negative effect on a player within an extranomic game of monopoly, all the instances of that entity are pooled, and split evenly among all voters. In the case that not all players can posses an equal number of instances of that entity, the largest even split possible is created, and the remaining instances are given to the voter furthest from target geographically. (Should "the grid" exist, they are given to the player furthest from the target on the grid. The target is also moved to the position 0,0 on the grid.) 3. If the card drawn has an unknown effect (such as "go to Mayfair") it is assumed to have a negative effect. -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From mikec@mxtelecom.com Fri Sep 24 15:21:19 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAqwp-0005Ls-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:21:19 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:52032 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAqwm-0005vj-7V (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:21:16 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CAqwf-0008Ja-T9 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:21:09 +0100 Message-ID: <41542D47.3090309@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] A monopoly? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 15:22:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:20:55 +0100 David (Birch) wrote: > > I propose the following rules. These rules are counter-entwined... i.e. > I'd like them to be passed as a group. > > "The whole world in your hand" > > Any voter may claim to be in possession of any extranomic entity so long > as they mention it by name. These claims need not be unique, so, for > example, all players may claim to possess the crown jewels. voters may > claim to posses as many extranomic entities that they want, however may > not claim to posses any entity currently named in the nomic rules. > Aye > "The contents of vault 37A" > > One voter shall be appointed to the role of "vaultmaster" Should there > ever be no vaultmaster, a new one may be appointed by any voter > submitting a proposal to appoint one from the list of voters. The > vaultmaster's duty shall be to make available to all voters a list of > possessions currently being claimed by each voter. Should the ministry > exist, the vaultmaster shall be a ministry position. When this rule is > passed, David Birch shall be appointed Vaultmaster, and this sentence > will be removed from the rules. > > "Monopoly!" If any voter claims to be in possession of a large number of > any extranomic entity, (defined to be 100 + the sum total of instances > of that entity claimed by other voters,) any voter may claim they have a > monopoly on that entity, (known hereafter as the "target",) and cause > the "monopolies commission effect" having the following effect: > > The target must find an extranomic monopoly set, with complete chance > and community chest packs. They chose one of these packs, and draw a > card at random. > > 1.) If that card would have a positive effect on a player within an > extranomic game of monopoly, the target creates a "monopoly" on their > extranomic entity, and may claim to posses all instances of that entity. > All other players lose any instances of that entity they claim to have, > and the vaultmaster shall publish to all voters that a monopoly is owned > on that entity. No voter may then claim to posses that entity other than > the monopoly holder. In the case that the target now owns more than two > monopolies they must decide to abandon monopolies until they have two or > less. > > 2.) If the card would have a negative effect on a player within an > extranomic game of monopoly, all the instances of that entity are > pooled, and split evenly among all voters. In the case that not all > players can posses an equal number of instances of that entity, the > largest even split possible is created, and the remaining instances are > given to the voter furthest from target geographically. (Should "the > grid" exist, they are given to the player furthest from the target on > the grid. The target is also moved to the position 0,0 on the grid.) > > 3. If the card drawn has an unknown effect (such as "go to Mayfair") it > is assumed to have a negative effect. > > > Nay, and hence the whole lot fails, sorry ;) I do want to vote in favour of you, honest! Mike From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 15:22:55 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAqyN-0005Qk-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:22:55 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:40170) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAqyK-0001Bj-Ay (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:22:52 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAqyK-00009y-7r for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:22:52 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] A monopoly? X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 15:23:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 15:22:52 +0100 For those wondering why "go to mayfair" etc is a negative effect, there are only three instances that this card can be drawn. 1) you own mayfair - BAD: Someone else drawing this card would have had to give you lots of money, but you've removed it from the draw pile. 2) someone else owns mayfair - BAD: it probbally has a hotel on it. 3) No-one owns mayfair - GOOD: however it ha been proven that this never happens. On Sep 24 2004, David (Birch) wrote: > > I propose the following rules. These rules are counter-entwined... i.e. > I'd like them to be passed as a group. > > "The whole world in your hand" > > Any voter may claim to be in possession of any extranomic entity so long > as they mention it by name. These claims need not be unique, so, for > example, all players may claim to possess the crown jewels. voters may > claim to posses as many extranomic entities that they want, however may > not claim to posses any entity currently named in the nomic rules. > > "The contents of vault 37A" > > One voter shall be appointed to the role of "vaultmaster" Should there > ever be no vaultmaster, a new one may be appointed by any voter > submitting a proposal to appoint one from the list of voters. The > vaultmaster's duty shall be to make available to all voters a list of > possessions currently being claimed by each voter. Should the ministry > exist, the vaultmaster shall be a ministry position. When this rule is > passed, David Birch shall be appointed Vaultmaster, and this sentence > will be removed from the rules. > > "Monopoly!" If any voter claims to be in possession of a large number of > any extranomic entity, (defined to be 100 + the sum total of instances of > that entity claimed by other voters,) any voter may claim they have a > monopoly on that entity, (known hereafter as the "target",) and cause the > "monopolies commission effect" having the following effect: > > The target must find an extranomic monopoly set, with complete chance and > community chest packs. They chose one of these packs, and draw a card at > random. > > 1.) If that card would have a positive effect on a player within an > extranomic game of monopoly, the target creates a "monopoly" on their > extranomic entity, and may claim to posses all instances of that entity. > All other players lose any instances of that entity they claim to have, > and the vaultmaster shall publish to all voters that a monopoly is owned > on that entity. No voter may then claim to posses that entity other than > the monopoly holder. In the case that the target now owns more than two > monopolies they must decide to abandon monopolies until they have two or > less. > > 2.) If the card would have a negative effect on a player within an > extranomic game of monopoly, all the instances of that entity are pooled, > and split evenly among all voters. In the case that not all players can > posses an equal number of instances of that entity, the largest even > split possible is created, and the remaining instances are given to the > voter furthest from target geographically. (Should "the grid" exist, they > are given to the player furthest from the target on the grid. The target > is also moved to the position 0,0 on the grid.) > > 3. If the card drawn has an unknown effect (such as "go to Mayfair") it > is assumed to have a negative effect. > > > > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 15:25:06 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAr0U-0005aM-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:25:06 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:40699) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAr0Q-0003Xb-2k (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:25:02 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAr0Q-0000cu-1Z for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:25:02 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] A monopoly? X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: <41542D47.3090309@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <41542D47.3090309@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 15:26:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 15:25:02 +0100 Apologies for forgetting my line breaks. "the contents of vault 7A" and "Monopoly!" are different proposals. On Sep 24 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > David (Birch) wrote: > > > > I propose the following rules. These rules are counter-entwined... i.e. > > I'd like them to be passed as a group. > > > > "The whole world in your hand" > > > > Any voter may claim to be in possession of any extranomic entity so > > long as they mention it by name. These claims need not be unique, so, > > for example, all players may claim to possess the crown jewels. voters > > may claim to posses as many extranomic entities that they want, however > > may not claim to posses any entity currently named in the nomic rules. > > > > Aye > > > "The contents of vault 37A" > > > > One voter shall be appointed to the role of "vaultmaster" Should there > > ever be no vaultmaster, a new one may be appointed by any voter > > submitting a proposal to appoint one from the list of voters. The > > vaultmaster's duty shall be to make available to all voters a list of > > possessions currently being claimed by each voter. Should the ministry > > exist, the vaultmaster shall be a ministry position. When this rule is > > passed, David Birch shall be appointed Vaultmaster, and this sentence > > will be removed from the rules. > > > > "Monopoly!" If any voter claims to be in possession of a large number > > of any extranomic entity, (defined to be 100 + the sum total of > > instances of that entity claimed by other voters,) any voter may claim > > they have a monopoly on that entity, (known hereafter as the "target",) > > and cause the "monopolies commission effect" having the following > > effect: > > > > The target must find an extranomic monopoly set, with complete chance > > and community chest packs. They chose one of these packs, and draw a > > card at random. > > > > 1.) If that card would have a positive effect on a player within an > > extranomic game of monopoly, the target creates a "monopoly" on their > > extranomic entity, and may claim to posses all instances of that > > entity. All other players lose any instances of that entity they claim > > to have, and the vaultmaster shall publish to all voters that a > > monopoly is owned on that entity. No voter may then claim to posses > > that entity other than the monopoly holder. In the case that the target > > now owns more than two monopolies they must decide to abandon > > monopolies until they have two or less. > > > > 2.) If the card would have a negative effect on a player within an > > extranomic game of monopoly, all the instances of that entity are > > pooled, and split evenly among all voters. In the case that not all > > players can posses an equal number of instances of that entity, the > > largest even split possible is created, and the remaining instances are > > given to the voter furthest from target geographically. (Should "the > > grid" exist, they are given to the player furthest from the target on > > the grid. The target is also moved to the position 0,0 on the grid.) > > > > 3. If the card drawn has an unknown effect (such as "go to Mayfair") it > > is assumed to have a negative effect. > > > > > > > > Nay, and hence the whole lot fails, sorry ;) > > I do want to vote in favour of you, honest! > > Mike > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 15:25:39 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAr11-0005bx-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:25:39 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:45972) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAr0u-0002aG-6e (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:25:32 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAr0q-0006eY-Pk for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:25:28 +0000 Message-ID: <41542E57.40000@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] A monopoly? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 15:26:05 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:25:27 +0100 I am not sure I understand - I can just say I am in possession of 101 beer tankards, and then have a monopoly of them? Nay as they currently stand, but I'd be interested in a modified version David (Birch) wrote: > > I propose the following rules. These rules are counter-entwined... i.e. > I'd like them to be passed as a group. > > "The whole world in your hand" > > Any voter may claim to be in possession of any extranomic entity so long > as they mention it by name. These claims need not be unique, so, for > example, all players may claim to possess the crown jewels. voters may > claim to posses as many extranomic entities that they want, however may > not claim to posses any entity currently named in the nomic rules. > > "The contents of vault 37A" > > One voter shall be appointed to the role of "vaultmaster" Should there > ever be no vaultmaster, a new one may be appointed by any voter > submitting a proposal to appoint one from the list of voters. The > vaultmaster's duty shall be to make available to all voters a list of > possessions currently being claimed by each voter. Should the ministry > exist, the vaultmaster shall be a ministry position. When this rule is > passed, David Birch shall be appointed Vaultmaster, and this sentence > will be removed from the rules. > > "Monopoly!" If any voter claims to be in possession of a large number of > any extranomic entity, (defined to be 100 + the sum total of instances > of that entity claimed by other voters,) any voter may claim they have a > monopoly on that entity, (known hereafter as the "target",) and cause > the "monopolies commission effect" having the following effect: > > The target must find an extranomic monopoly set, with complete chance > and community chest packs. They chose one of these packs, and draw a > card at random. > > 1.) If that card would have a positive effect on a player within an > extranomic game of monopoly, the target creates a "monopoly" on their > extranomic entity, and may claim to posses all instances of that entity. > All other players lose any instances of that entity they claim to have, > and the vaultmaster shall publish to all voters that a monopoly is owned > on that entity. No voter may then claim to posses that entity other than > the monopoly holder. In the case that the target now owns more than two > monopolies they must decide to abandon monopolies until they have two or > less. > > 2.) If the card would have a negative effect on a player within an > extranomic game of monopoly, all the instances of that entity are > pooled, and split evenly among all voters. In the case that not all > players can posses an equal number of instances of that entity, the > largest even split possible is created, and the remaining instances are > given to the voter furthest from target geographically. (Should "the > grid" exist, they are given to the player furthest from the target on > the grid. The target is also moved to the position 0,0 on the grid.) > > 3. If the card drawn has an unknown effect (such as "go to Mayfair") it > is assumed to have a negative effect. > > > From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 15:29:40 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAr4t-0005qH-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:29:39 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:41658) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAr4p-00040o-Nq (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:29:35 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAr4p-0001fB-Mk for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:29:35 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] A monopoly? X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: <41542E57.40000@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <41542E57.40000@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 15:30:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 15:29:35 +0100 Yes, although you may only have two monopolies, and have to pass the monopoly board test. Maybe there should be two addendums, that you can't go for the same monopoly twice, and that you can't claim a monopoly yourself, someone else has to call it. On Sep 24 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > I am not sure I understand - I can just say I am in possession of 101 > beer tankards, and then have a monopoly of them? > > Nay as they currently stand, but I'd be interested in a modified version > > David (Birch) wrote: > > > > > I propose the following rules. These rules are counter-entwined... i.e. > > I'd like them to be passed as a group. > > > > "The whole world in your hand" > > > > Any voter may claim to be in possession of any extranomic entity so > > long as they mention it by name. These claims need not be unique, so, > > for example, all players may claim to possess the crown jewels. voters > > may claim to posses as many extranomic entities that they want, however > > may not claim to posses any entity currently named in the nomic rules. > > > > "The contents of vault 37A" > > > > One voter shall be appointed to the role of "vaultmaster" Should there > > ever be no vaultmaster, a new one may be appointed by any voter > > submitting a proposal to appoint one from the list of voters. The > > vaultmaster's duty shall be to make available to all voters a list of > > possessions currently being claimed by each voter. Should the ministry > > exist, the vaultmaster shall be a ministry position. When this rule is > > passed, David Birch shall be appointed Vaultmaster, and this sentence > > will be removed from the rules. > > > > "Monopoly!" If any voter claims to be in possession of a large number > > of any extranomic entity, (defined to be 100 + the sum total of > > instances of that entity claimed by other voters,) any voter may claim > > they have a monopoly on that entity, (known hereafter as the "target",) > > and cause the "monopolies commission effect" having the following > > effect: > > > > The target must find an extranomic monopoly set, with complete chance > > and community chest packs. They chose one of these packs, and draw a > > card at random. > > > > 1.) If that card would have a positive effect on a player within an > > extranomic game of monopoly, the target creates a "monopoly" on their > > extranomic entity, and may claim to posses all instances of that > > entity. All other players lose any instances of that entity they claim > > to have, and the vaultmaster shall publish to all voters that a > > monopoly is owned on that entity. No voter may then claim to posses > > that entity other than the monopoly holder. In the case that the target > > now owns more than two monopolies they must decide to abandon > > monopolies until they have two or less. > > > > 2.) If the card would have a negative effect on a player within an > > extranomic game of monopoly, all the instances of that entity are > > pooled, and split evenly among all voters. In the case that not all > > players can posses an equal number of instances of that entity, the > > largest even split possible is created, and the remaining instances are > > given to the voter furthest from target geographically. (Should "the > > grid" exist, they are given to the player furthest from the target on > > the grid. The target is also moved to the position 0,0 on the grid.) > > > > 3. If the card drawn has an unknown effect (such as "go to Mayfair") it > > is assumed to have a negative effect. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From mikec@mxtelecom.com Fri Sep 24 15:54:00 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CArSS-0006oH-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:54:00 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:52568 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CArSP-0003oa-1M (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:57 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CArSH-0000ch-UB for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:50 +0100 Message-ID: <415434EF.6080307@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=1.173, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: s Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 15:54:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:35 +0100 > 3. Create a rule called the Rule of Structured Names, with the following > text: > Each rule shall have a name that is a string of the form 'Rule X, Y'. In > this string, X stands for an integer which is assigned to the rule when it > is added to the ruleset and is one greater than the largest integer > currently assigned to any rule. Y shall stand for any string of > alphanumeric characters, spaces and punctuation which is distinct up to > changes to case and spacing from the Y of any other rule in the rules. > > X is assigned only when a rule is added to the rules; Y must be specified > along with the text of the rule when it is first proposed. All rules, when > referring to other rules, must use the full name of the rule in > question, excepting the following case: Where a rule is still a > proposal, it may be referred to only by its alphanumeric designator Y. > If that rule is then adopted, the gamestate shall be modified so that > all references to that rule reference the full name instead. > When this rule is brought into effect, the names of all existing rules > shall be modified to bring them into line with this format. > > Ayes: Maz, JJ, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, adam, Martin, dok > Nays: Aye > > 4. The Law of Lizardmen. This is a pair of linked suggestions taking one > the following form: > The Rule of Autoadoption: > > Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters > may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: > 1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). > 2) They are not already in the List of Voters. > 3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: > a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. > b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. > c) They wish to join the game. > Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of > Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game. Their consent is not > needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration > at the time of their joining the game. > > A Planet? Where Lizards evolved from Men? > All entities eligible to be members of the List Of Voters (Which shall > be all living extranomic entities of the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens) > shall be considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV until a member of > the List Of Voters states "I do not believe is a > lizardman from > Antares IV", where "" is to be replaced with the name of > the entity in question. No existing member of the List Of Voters is a > lizardman from Antares IV. > > Ayes: Martin, adam, Maz, JJ > > Aye From mikec@mxtelecom.com Fri Sep 24 15:54:51 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CArTH-0006r9-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:54:51 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:52574 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CArTC-0005r9-Ty (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:54:46 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CArT6-0000dJ-D9 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:54:40 +0100 Message-ID: <41543522.2070706@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 References: <415434EF.6080307@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: <415434EF.6080307@mxtelecom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 15:55:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:54:26 +0100 Mike Cripps wrote: >> 3. Create a rule called the Rule of Structured Names, with the >> following text: >> Each rule shall have a name that is a string of the form 'Rule X, Y'. In >> this string, X stands for an integer which is assigned to the rule >> when it >> is added to the ruleset and is one greater than the largest integer >> currently assigned to any rule. Y shall stand for any string of >> alphanumeric characters, spaces and punctuation which is distinct up to >> changes to case and spacing from the Y of any other rule in the rules. >> >> X is assigned only when a rule is added to the rules; Y must be specified >> along with the text of the rule when it is first proposed. All rules, >> when >> referring to other rules, must use the full name of the rule in >> question, excepting the following case: Where a rule is still a >> proposal, it may be referred to only by its alphanumeric designator Y. >> If that rule is then adopted, the gamestate shall be modified so that >> all references to that rule reference the full name instead. >> When this rule is brought into effect, the names of all existing rules >> shall be modified to bring them into line with this format. >> >> Ayes: Maz, JJ, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, adam, Martin, dok >> Nays: > > > Aye > Oops From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 15:55:44 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CArU8-0006tF-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:55:44 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:43693) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CArU4-0003yk-Jf (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:55:40 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CArU3-0000yH-SR for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:55:39 +0000 Message-ID: <4154356B.8080701@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary of Proposals 2 References: <415434EF.6080307@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: <415434EF.6080307@mxtelecom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 15:56:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:55:39 +0100 Mike Cripps wrote: >> 3. Create a rule called the Rule of Structured Names, with the >> following text: >> Each rule shall have a name that is a string of the form 'Rule X, Y'. In >> this string, X stands for an integer which is assigned to the rule >> when it >> is added to the ruleset and is one greater than the largest integer >> currently assigned to any rule. Y shall stand for any string of >> alphanumeric characters, spaces and punctuation which is distinct up to >> changes to case and spacing from the Y of any other rule in the rules. >> >> X is assigned only when a rule is added to the rules; Y must be specified >> along with the text of the rule when it is first proposed. All rules, >> when >> referring to other rules, must use the full name of the rule in >> question, excepting the following case: Where a rule is still a >> proposal, it may be referred to only by its alphanumeric designator Y. >> If that rule is then adopted, the gamestate shall be modified so that >> all references to that rule reference the full name instead. >> When this rule is brought into effect, the names of all existing rules >> shall be modified to bring them into line with this format. >> >> Ayes: Maz, JJ, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, adam, Martin, dok >> Nays: > > > Aye Thanks Mike. We thought you already had, and this is now one of the rules ;) From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Sep 24 16:01:17 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CArZV-00077O-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:01:17 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:37698) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CArZJ-0007pa-0a (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:01:05 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CArZI-0002uZ-00; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:01:04 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CArXz-0006lp-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:59:43 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] chartreuse-coloured Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:02:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:59:43 +0100 This is a chartreuse-coloured Notice of Consensus: ==== Rule 10, The Law of Lizardmen. Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: 1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). 2) They are not already in the List of Voters. 3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. c) They wish to join the game. Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game. Their consent is not needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration at the time of their joining the game. All entities eligible to be members of the List Of Voters (Which shall be all living extranomic entities of the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens) shall be considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV until a member of the List Of Voters states "I do not believe " is to be replaced with the name of the entity in question. No existing member of the List Of Voters is a lizardman from Antares IV. From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 16:02:13 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAraP-0007Fu-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:02:13 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.204]:9274 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAraF-0001r8-KL (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:02:03 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v18so3162621rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.179.69 with SMTP id b69mr282323rnf; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.40 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] A monopoly? In-Reply-To: <41542E57.40000@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <41542E57.40000@cam.ac.uk> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:03:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:01:51 +0100 On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:25:27 +0100, Stuart Moore wrote: > I am not sure I understand - I can just say I am in possession of 101 > beer tankards, and then have a monopoly of them? > > Nay as they currently stand, but I'd be interested in a modified version > > > > David (Birch) wrote: > > > > > I propose the following rules. These rules are counter-entwined... i.e. > > I'd like them to be passed as a group. > > > > "The whole world in your hand" > > > > Any voter may claim to be in possession of any extranomic entity so long > > as they mention it by name. These claims need not be unique, so, for > > example, all players may claim to possess the crown jewels. voters may > > claim to posses as many extranomic entities that they want, however may > > not claim to posses any entity currently named in the nomic rules. > > > > "The contents of vault 37A" > > > > One voter shall be appointed to the role of "vaultmaster" Should there > > ever be no vaultmaster, a new one may be appointed by any voter > > submitting a proposal to appoint one from the list of voters. The > > vaultmaster's duty shall be to make available to all voters a list of > > possessions currently being claimed by each voter. Should the ministry > > exist, the vaultmaster shall be a ministry position. When this rule is > > passed, David Birch shall be appointed Vaultmaster, and this sentence > > will be removed from the rules. > > > > "Monopoly!" If any voter claims to be in possession of a large number of > > any extranomic entity, (defined to be 100 + the sum total of instances > > of that entity claimed by other voters,) any voter may claim they have a > > monopoly on that entity, (known hereafter as the "target",) and cause > > the "monopolies commission effect" having the following effect: > > > > The target must find an extranomic monopoly set, with complete chance > > and community chest packs. They chose one of these packs, and draw a > > card at random. > > > > 1.) If that card would have a positive effect on a player within an > > extranomic game of monopoly, the target creates a "monopoly" on their > > extranomic entity, and may claim to posses all instances of that entity. > > All other players lose any instances of that entity they claim to have, > > and the vaultmaster shall publish to all voters that a monopoly is owned > > on that entity. No voter may then claim to posses that entity other than > > the monopoly holder. In the case that the target now owns more than two > > monopolies they must decide to abandon monopolies until they have two or > > less. > > > > 2.) If the card would have a negative effect on a player within an > > extranomic game of monopoly, all the instances of that entity are > > pooled, and split evenly among all voters. In the case that not all > > players can posses an equal number of instances of that entity, the > > largest even split possible is created, and the remaining instances are > > given to the voter furthest from target geographically. (Should "the > > grid" exist, they are given to the player furthest from the target on > > the grid. The target is also moved to the position 0,0 on the grid.) > > > > 3. If the card drawn has an unknown effect (such as "go to Mayfair") it > > is assumed to have a negative effect. > > > > > > Dave I'm with stumo on this one. I think they're really good ideas but possibly need reworking a little. Carrie > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 16:09:02 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CArh0-0007Rh-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:09:02 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:49888) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CArgx-0004Dk-Hw (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:08:59 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CArgx-0001k1-Gh for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:08:59 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: My Head Hurts X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: <4153F2DD.3050800@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <4153F2DD.3050800@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:10:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 16:08:57 +0100 On Sep 24 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > I propose: > > At no time shall there be more 'active proposals' (defined as "proposals > waiting for entities on the List of Voters to vote on them, and not yet > passed or annulled) than number of entities on the List of Voters. Nay - firstly, this conflicts as it is with Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion, which states that a Consensus of Opinion exists whenever a change is proposed and agreed by all voting entities. Secondly, I don't particularly like it -- can we see whether things get any more or less confusing when we have someone whose job it is to keep a list of active proposals? adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 16:11:19 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CArjD-0007Xi-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:11:19 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50354) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CArj8-0002OC-S7 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:11:14 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CArj8-0002D8-Qu for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:11:14 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Back Here Again X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:12:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 16:11:14 +0100 On Sep 24 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Back Here Again > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lookaroundyou/periodic.shtml is the > official Periodic Table for the game. Aye, why not? adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 16:13:24 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CArlE-0007cR-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:13:24 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:47339) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CArl8-0007Yl-11 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:13:18 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CArl7-00045S-AW for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:13:17 +0000 Message-ID: <4154398D.4020901@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: My Head Hurts References: <4153F2DD.3050800@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:14:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:13:17 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 24 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > >> I propose: >> >> At no time shall there be more 'active proposals' (defined as >> "proposals waiting for entities on the List of Voters to vote on them, >> and not yet passed or annulled) than number of entities on the List of >> Voters. > > > Nay - firstly, this conflicts as it is with Rule 4, Consensus of > Opinion, which states that a Consensus of Opinion exists whenever a > change is proposed and agreed by all voting entities. Secondly, I don't > particularly like it -- can we see whether things get any more or less > confusing when we have someone whose job it is to keep a list of active > proposals? > On that subject, people can add active proposals into the autonomic system. Please do, it'll make life a lot easier if we can use an automated system to some extent... At the moment I've done it so that I can't update the voting status to reflect votes people have made in an email, but not on it. So if anyone fancies going there and registering their votes to my proposals, I'd be most appreciative. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 16:19:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CArqo-0007q0-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:19:10 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:51843) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CArqj-0000rH-8C (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:19:05 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CArqj-0003l3-7A for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:19:05 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:20:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 16:19:05 +0100 On Sep 24 2004, Carrie Oliver wrote: > > ---------- > > Adam Lives Underground Anyway > > > > The Minister of Freedom shall be Adam Biltcliffe. > > ---------- > > You are? Well I don't see any evidence of it. Prove it to me and I may > say aye. I am what? If you mean living underground, dammit, I've been rumbled. If you mean keeping the list of rules up to date, the list of rules at http://www.srcf.ucam.org/nomic is being maintained by me and updated as frequently as possible. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 16:26:46 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAryA-00087Y-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:26:46 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:53295) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAry0-0004Bh-IW (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:26:36 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAry0-0005K9-HX for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:26:36 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:27:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 16:26:36 +0100 On Sep 24 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" > Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" > Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" Reserving judgement for now. I approve of the idea of currency or some sort of resource to carry out game transactions with, but this looks like a bookkeeping nightmare. How were you thinking it ought to be tracked? adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 16:26:46 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAryA-00087e-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:26:46 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:51391) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAry4-0007A1-RH (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:26:40 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAry0-0006BJ-8J for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:26:36 +0000 Message-ID: <41543CAC.7030803@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:27:04 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:26:36 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 24 2004, Carrie Oliver wrote: > >> > ---------- >> > Adam Lives Underground Anyway >> > > The Minister of Freedom shall be Adam Biltcliffe. >> > ---------- >> >> You are? Well I don't see any evidence of it. Prove it to me and I may >> say aye. > > > I am what? If you mean living underground, dammit, I've been rumbled. If > you mean keeping the list of rules up to date, the list of rules at > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/nomic is being maintained by me and updated as > frequently as possible. > Although it's not up to date at the time of writing... From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 16:29:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAs0V-0008DX-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:29:11 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:46507) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAs0P-0004sE-Eb (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:29:05 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAs0O-0005Wh-FQ for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:29:04 +0000 Message-ID: <41543D40.5010303@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:30:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:29:04 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 24 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > >> Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" >> Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" >> Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" > > > Reserving judgement for now. I approve of the idea of currency or some > sort of resource to carry out game transactions with, but this looks > like a bookkeeping nightmare. How were you thinking it ought to be tracked? > Personally I'd add it into the autonomic system - that could certainly do the update each night at midnight automatically, and there could be a button for "multiply by 1.2" together with someone authorised to push it... From mikec@mxtelecom.com Fri Sep 24 16:32:04 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAs3I-0008JT-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:32:04 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:53593 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAs3F-0002kb-4z (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:32:01 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CAs3B-0001iU-0u for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:31:57 +0100 Message-ID: <41543DDE.4000508@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <41543D40.5010303@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <41543D40.5010303@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:33:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:31:42 +0100 Stuart Moore wrote: > Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > >> On Sep 24 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: >> >>> Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" >>> Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" >>> Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" >> >> >> >> Reserving judgement for now. I approve of the idea of currency or some >> sort of resource to carry out game transactions with, but this looks >> like a bookkeeping nightmare. How were you thinking it ought to be >> tracked? >> > > Personally I'd add it into the autonomic system - that could certainly > do the update each night at midnight automatically, and there could be a > button for "multiply by 1.2" together with someone authorised to push it... > > I worry about making the AutoNomic too specific - you're going to have to examine rules _very_ carefully to determine allowable actions. I suggest just using the AutoNomic to keep track of Proposals and the ilk. At least, that's what the system I'm thinking of shall do ;) Mike - the real Minister of Truth From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 16:35:17 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAs6P-0008Pm-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:35:17 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:55102) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAs6G-0005Ll-Si (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:35:08 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAs6G-00073L-Rd for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:35:08 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: <41543CAC.7030803@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <41543CAC.7030803@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:36:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 16:35:08 +0100 On Sep 24 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > > I am what? If you mean living underground, dammit, I've been rumbled. > > If you mean keeping the list of rules up to date, the list of rules at > > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/nomic is being maintained by me and updated as > > frequently as possible. > > Although it's not up to date at the time of writing... I'm at work! adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 16:35:51 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAs6w-0008Qh-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:35:51 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:59645) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAs6r-0005XH-Vz (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:35:46 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAs6r-0001qb-0H for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:35:45 +0000 Message-ID: <41543ED1.90404@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <41543D40.5010303@cam.ac.uk> <41543DDE.4000508@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: <41543DDE.4000508@mxtelecom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:36:04 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:35:45 +0100 Mike Cripps wrote: > Stuart Moore wrote: > >> Adam Biltcliffe wrote: >> >>> On Sep 24 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: >>> >>>> Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" >>>> Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" >>>> Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Reserving judgement for now. I approve of the idea of currency or >>> some sort of resource to carry out game transactions with, but this >>> looks like a bookkeeping nightmare. How were you thinking it ought to >>> be tracked? >>> >> >> Personally I'd add it into the autonomic system - that could certainly >> do the update each night at midnight automatically, and there could be >> a button for "multiply by 1.2" together with someone authorised to >> push it... >> >> > I worry about making the AutoNomic too specific - you're going to have > to examine rules _very_ carefully to determine allowable actions. I > suggest just using the AutoNomic to keep track of Proposals and the ilk. > > At least, that's what the system I'm thinking of shall do ;) > > Mike - the real Minister of Truth It doesn't attempt to check an action is allowable. But it does record who did what, so if someone plays silly buggers we can find out who and reset it to the correct state. For something like a bank balance, something like that is ideal for keeping records, especially if there is a simple regular time based income. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 16:39:06 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAsA5-00006q-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:39:05 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:55721) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAs9y-0005MA-IR (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:38:58 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAs9y-0007sV-HJ for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:38:58 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: <41543DDE.4000508@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <41543D40.5010303@cam.ac.uk> <41543DDE.4000508@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:40:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 16:38:58 +0100 On Sep 24 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > I worry about making the AutoNomic too specific - you're going to have > to examine rules _very_ carefully to determine allowable actions. I > suggest just using the AutoNomic to keep track of Proposals and the ilk. > > At least, that's what the system I'm thinking of shall do ;) "Players who try to go beyond text processing and actually put some Nomic bookkeeping in a program are warned that the complexities are subtle. First, such a program should be as easy to modify as the rules of the game, or else the difficulty of changing it will put an unwanted brake on play. Moreover, it is very easy inadvertently to give the program decisions to make that are not actually clerical and that belong to the players, that is, to change Nomic without realizing it. This is true even of the most deceptively simple decisions such as renumbering rules after amendment, computing scores, and deciding who plays next. For the same reasons, mere word processing can introduce distortions. Decisions necessary to write a program or edit text may require a precision not explicit in the rule as written, in which case the programmer usurps the power of the game Judge if she simply chooses a reading of the rule. In any case, the game Judge should be the final arbiter of all questions and decisions, even those made by a program, unless of course a rule has changed the role of the Judge." -- Peter Suber (inventor of Nomic) That said, Suber had some silly ideas. But I'm with him on this one. adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 16:46:42 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAsHS-0000MN-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:46:42 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:50768) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAsHO-00051z-Do (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:46:38 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAsHL-0000M1-H9 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:46:35 +0000 Message-ID: <4154415B.8060107@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <41543D40.5010303@cam.ac.uk> <41543DDE.4000508@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 16:47:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:46:35 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > That said, Suber had some silly ideas. But I'm with him on this one. > Which is why I went the other way - it's more of a quick route to find out what's going on, instead of looking through many emails (now 240) - you can do illegal stuff with it, just as you can make declarations within an email that break the rules. I think when it comes to keeping track of numbers a computer will work well, as long as it doesn't do any (non-trivial) updating without human input. I could possibly get it to email a balance sheet each evening, saying who had what and what transactions had happened that day. Then people could scrutinise and if someone had entered something wrong, we correct it by hand. Otherwise as you say there's a lot of book keeping to do. Stuart From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 16:59:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAsTX-0000lJ-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:59:11 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:59644) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAsTT-0007w7-J9 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:59:07 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAsTT-0003Zo-ID for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:59:07 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] In-Reply-To: <4154415B.8060107@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <41543D40.5010303@cam.ac.uk> <41543DDE.4000508@mxtelecom.com> <4154415B.8060107@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 17:00:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 16:59:07 +0100 On Sep 24 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Which is why I went the other way - it's more of a quick route to find > out what's going on, instead of looking through many emails (now 240) - > you can do illegal stuff with it, just as you can make declarations > within an email that break the rules. I think we're diverging on a fundamental point here, which may or may not be the cause of our disagreement. You *can't* make declarations within an email that break the rules, because the rules do not have authority over you. The rules only dictate the behaviour of the game, not the behaviour of the players. I can post an email to the mailing list saying "I win" -- this won't have any effect on the game at all, because the rules do not define anything which happens as a result of a player claiming to have won. But it's not against the rules for me to do so. I don't want to have to rely on a computer program to tell me what the state of the game is. If someone wants to volunteer to track financial transactions, and decides to use a computer program to do so, fine. But if we all end up just relying on a computer to do it, things will get forgotten or misunderstood because people aren't paying attention to the rules. > I could possibly get it to email a balance sheet each evening, saying > who had what and what transactions had happened that day. Then people > could scrutinise and if someone had entered something wrong, we correct > it by hand. Some sort of transaction history would certainly be a requirement. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 17:01:32 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAsVo-0000q2-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:01:32 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:60133) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAsVl-0004oB-Nh (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:01:29 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CAsVb-0003zv-Mq for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:01:19 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.143.15.180] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] autonomic query Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 17:02:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Sep 2004 17:01:19 +0100 Wild Card posted the Notice of Consensus for the Law of Lizardmen at 16:02 today, according to the mailing list archive, which is when it officially became part of the ruleset. But AutoNomic gives its time of creation as 14:57. How come? adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 24 17:08:26 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAscU-00018v-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:08:26 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:34641) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAscL-0005oe-FM (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:08:17 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CAscK-0006Zg-JJ for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:08:16 +0000 Message-ID: <41544670.3090405@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] autonomic query References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 17:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:08:16 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Wild Card posted the Notice of Consensus for the Law of Lizardmen at > 16:02 today, according to the mailing list archive, which is when it > officially became part of the ruleset. But AutoNomic gives its time of > creation as 14:57. How come? > Odd, I put it in manually, and according to the logs it went in at 16:04. The "Time" field is automatically filled with the time you load the page, I think I just put it into a page that had been open an hour at that point and forgot to check the time thing. I'll update now. Possibly I should leave the time field blank by default, and then it enters the time you submit the script if you haven't set it to something else. Stuart From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Fri Sep 24 17:41:20 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAt8K-0002Ie-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:41:20 +0100 Received: from bay24-f35.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.85]:3297 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAt8F-0006pP-Ab (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:41:15 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:41:05 -0700 Received: from 81.156.155.185 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:41:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [81.156.155.185] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Back Here Again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2004 16:41:05.0408 (UTC) FILETIME=[49032800:01C4A255] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.1, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 17:42:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:41:00 +0100 > >On Sep 24 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > >>Back Here Again >> >>http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lookaroundyou/periodic.shtml is the >>official Periodic Table for the game. > >Aye, why not? > >adam Aye JJ _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Fri Sep 24 17:41:25 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAt8P-0002It-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:41:25 +0100 Received: from bay24-f19.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.69]:4462 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAt8K-0006MA-0K (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:41:20 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:41:01 -0700 Received: from 81.156.155.185 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:40:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [81.156.155.185] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2004 16:41:01.0658 (UTC) FILETIME=[46C6F3A0:01C4A255] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.1, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 17:42:04 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:40:26 +0100 > >On Sep 24 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > >>Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" > >Reserving judgement for now. I approve of the idea of currency or some sort >of resource to carry out game transactions with, but this looks like a >bookkeeping nightmare. How were you thinking it ought to be tracked? > I'm with you on that point, so I'd be happy for the first rule, that just creates the BANK accounts for each player (although why should it be non-negative currency?) to go through, but not the others as yet. JJ _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Fri Sep 24 17:46:21 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAtDB-0002Tu-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:46:21 +0100 Received: from bay24-f15.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.65]:3415 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAtD7-0007Ze-KU (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:46:17 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:46:03 -0700 Received: from 81.156.155.185 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:45:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [81.156.155.185] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2004 16:46:03.0128 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA779F80:01C4A255] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.1, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 17:47:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:45:28 +0100 > >Aye to all, but when one of the "Window Cleaner" ones becomes a rule, I >remove my consent to the other one. Ditto. This seems to make my Council proposal obsolete, I just don't think I have any way to retract it do I? JJ > >Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > >>I would like to make the following six proposals, all of which create new >>rules and two of which are mutually contradictory: >> >>---------- >>The Party Knows Best >> >>The game shall contain a Ministry which is a mapping of role names to >>extranomic entities. If a role has a duty defined by the rules, and that >>role is currently occupied by an extranomic entity, then that entity is >>encouraged to perform the tasks specified by that duty. ---------- >> >>---------- >>Minister of Truth >> >>The duty of the Minister of Truth shall be to make available to all >>players a reasonably current summary of the current proposals upon which >>consensus has not been reached, and the standings of all members of the >>List of Voters with respect to those proposals. ---------- >> >>---------- >>Minister of Freedom >> >>The duty of the Minister of Freedom shall be to make available to all >>players a reasonably current summary of the current state of the rules of >>the game. ---------- >> >>---------- >>Mike Is Not A Window Cleaner >> >>The Minister of Truth shall be Mike Cripps. >>---------- >> >>---------- >>Stumo Is Possibly A Window Cleaner >> >>The Minister of Truth shall be Stuart Moore. >>---------- >> >>---------- >>Adam Lives Underground Anyway >> >>The Minister of Freedom shall be Adam Biltcliffe. >>---------- >> >>There you have it. I've made two nominations for Minister of Truth, since >>Mike was the first to suggest he'd like to fulfil that role, but Stumo has >>an exciting computer program to do it for him, and has also nominated >>himself for a similar role. I suggest I should be Minister of Freedom >>since I'm doing it anyway and it may as well be official. >> >>adam >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Nomic-talk mailing list >>Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >>http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > > >_______________________________________________ >Nomic-talk mailing list >Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 21:53:03 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAx3v-0003QC-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:53:03 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]:46854 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAx3s-0008AA-JB (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:53:00 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so282130rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.11.80 with SMTP id 80mr303157rnk; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.31 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 21:54:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:52:54 +0100 On 24 Sep 2004 16:19:05 +0100, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 24 2004, Carrie Oliver wrote: > > > > ---------- > > > Adam Lives Underground Anyway > > > > > > The Minister of Freedom shall be Adam Biltcliffe. > > > ---------- > > > > You are? Well I don't see any evidence of it. Prove it to me and I may > > say aye. > > I am what? If you mean living underground, dammit, I've been rumbled. If > you mean keeping the list of rules up to date, the list of rules at > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/nomic is being maintained by me and updated as > frequently as possible. > > > > adam > Having discussed this on the phone with you and been reminded of the exsistance of said site I shall now say aye. Carrie > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Sep 24 21:54:03 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CAx4t-0003RZ-00 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:54:03 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.204]:49647 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAx4m-0004vr-VX (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:53:57 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so282245rnb for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.11.80 with SMTP id 80mr303207rnk; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.31 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Back Here Again In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Sep 24 21:55:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:53:50 +0100 On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:41:00 +0100, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > > > > >On Sep 24 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > > >>Back Here Again > >> > >>http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lookaroundyou/periodic.shtml is the > >>official Periodic Table for the game. > > > >Aye, why not? > > > >adam > > Aye > > JJ > > Aye _________________________________________________________________ > Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! > http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sat Sep 25 01:08:16 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CB06p-0001GZ-00 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 01:08:15 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:50160) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CB06X-0005qA-FF (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 01:07:57 +0100 Received: from [82.68.48.166] (helo=[10.0.0.125]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CB03l-0008Va-RC for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 00:05:05 +0000 Message-ID: <4154B631.2080002@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Sep 25 01:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 01:05:05 +0100 Carrie Oliver wrote: > > > Having discussed this on the phone with you and been reminded of the > exsistance of said site I shall now say aye. See, they admit it! They're talking to each other and plotting their next move! They want to overthrow the rules, and have anarchy! I bet he is a fishmonger too. From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sat Sep 25 18:39:51 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBGWV-0003et-00 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:39:51 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:50260) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBGWR-0002p6-CX (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:39:47 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CBGWQ-0002LJ-S3 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:39:46 +0000 Message-ID: <4155AD63.3020109@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Sep 25 18:40:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:39:47 +0100 Summary: Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" For: Stuart, Carrie, Jonathan, JJ Against: No comment: David, Martin Lester, Martin O'Leary Reserving Judgement: Adam, Mike Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" For: Stuart, Carrie, Jonathan Against: No comment: David, Martin Lester, Martin O'Leary Reserving Judgement: Adam, Mike, JJ Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" For: Stuart, Jonathan Against: Carrie, No comment: David, Martin Lester, Martin O'Leary Reserving Judgement: Adam, Mike, JJ To try to work round peoples issues, I am going to change the first proposal and introduce another proposal. Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" --- Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with balance zero. Balances will be looked after by the Chief Cashier, who should publish a breakdown of balances and transaction history for each day. The post of Chief Cashier will be a Ministry post, should this phrase have any meaning in the game. --- Proposal for the creation of the rule "Who's the banker in the black?" --- The Chief Cashier will be Stuart Moore --- My proposed method of recording balances and transaction history would be to have a script that partially kept track of things for me and would send out an email to the list for me. How automated it was would depend on what we were using money for at that point-the more complicated, the less likely it could be fully automated of course. Stuart From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Sat Sep 25 19:02:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBGsA-0004fP-00 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:02:14 +0100 Received: from bay24-f4.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.54]:4469 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBGs7-0002wq-69 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:02:11 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:02:00 -0700 Received: from 81.156.212.15 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:01:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [81.156.212.15] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2004 18:02:00.0454 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1422260:01C4A329] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.1, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Sep 25 19:03:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:01:28 +0100 > >Summary: > >Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" >For: Stuart, Carrie, Jonathan, JJ >Against: >No comment: David, Martin Lester, Martin O'Leary >Reserving Judgement: Adam, Mike > >Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" >For: Stuart, Carrie, Jonathan >Against: >No comment: David, Martin Lester, Martin O'Leary >Reserving Judgement: Adam, Mike, JJ > >Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" >For: Stuart, Jonathan >Against: Carrie, >No comment: David, Martin Lester, Martin O'Leary >Reserving Judgement: Adam, Mike, JJ > >To try to work round peoples issues, I am going to change the first >proposal and introduce another proposal. > >Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" >--- >Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with The >"Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account consists >of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with balance >zero. Balances will be looked after by the Chief Cashier, who should >publish a breakdown of balances and transaction history for each day. The >post of Chief Cashier will be a Ministry post, should this phrase have any >meaning in the game. Aye, but I still don't see the point in not allowing negative amounts (i.e. players in debt). I would prefer to see the word 'non-negative' removed from the rule. >--- > >Proposal for the creation of the rule "Who's the banker in the black?" >--- >The Chief Cashier will be Stuart Moore >--- > >My proposed method of recording balances and transaction history would be >to have a script that partially kept track of things for me and would send >out an email to the list for me. How automated it was would depend on what >we were using money for at that point-the more complicated, the less likely >it could be fully automated of course. > >Stuart > > >_______________________________________________ >Nomic-talk mailing list >Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sat Sep 25 19:40:42 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBHTO-00068l-00 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:40:42 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:41252) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBHTK-0003PR-IK (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:40:38 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CBHTI-00048D-1H for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:40:36 +0000 Message-ID: <4155BBA6.3080305@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Sep 25 19:41:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:40:38 +0100 John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >> >> Summary: >> >> Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" >> For: Stuart, Carrie, Jonathan, JJ >> Against: >> No comment: David, Martin Lester, Martin O'Leary >> Reserving Judgement: Adam, Mike >> >> Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" >> For: Stuart, Carrie, Jonathan >> Against: >> No comment: David, Martin Lester, Martin O'Leary >> Reserving Judgement: Adam, Mike, JJ >> >> Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" >> For: Stuart, Jonathan >> Against: Carrie, >> No comment: David, Martin Lester, Martin O'Leary >> Reserving Judgement: Adam, Mike, JJ >> >> To try to work round peoples issues, I am going to change the first >> proposal and introduce another proposal. >> >> Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" >> --- >> Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with >> The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account >> consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin >> with balance zero. Balances will be looked after by the Chief Cashier, >> who should publish a breakdown of balances and transaction history for >> each day. The post of Chief Cashier will be a Ministry post, should >> this phrase have any meaning in the game. > > > Aye, but I still don't see the point in not allowing negative amounts > (i.e. players in debt). I would prefer to see the word 'non-negative' > removed from the rule. I'd prefer some method of borrowing money from somewhere else - insisting on non-negative balances makes it easier to avoid loopholes where people can buy as much as they want of (whatever) and have a vastly negative balance. Is your Aye to making me the Chief Cashier as well? BTW - Technically this is a new proposal so Carrie and Jonathan ought to state whether they agree with this one. Stuart From mewo2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Sun Sep 26 01:11:53 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBMdt-0007pf-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 01:11:53 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:59397) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBMdr-0002P5-Cv (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 01:11:51 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CBMdr-0007Pj-B0 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 01:11:51 +0100 From: "M.E.W. O'Leary" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.48.181.175] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Stuff Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 01:12:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 26 Sep 2004 01:11:51 +0100 I'm visiting Abi at the moment and don't really have time to sit down and go through all the details of proposals. However, I trust people to raise the same objections I would. Therefore I'm voting aye to all proposals made since my last post. On another issue, I believe the last notice of Consensus is invalid, as I never voted in favour of it. The rules which I voted in favour of were substantially equivalent to what was passed, but I think this is a dangerous precedent to be setting. I'd like to know people's opinions on this. Martin From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sun Sep 26 01:17:20 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBMjA-0007yk-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 01:17:20 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:34872) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBMj6-0005np-EJ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 01:17:16 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CBMj3-0001dI-Tv for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 00:17:14 +0000 Message-ID: <41560A8C.4030301@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Stuff References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 01:18:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 01:17:16 +0100 M.E.W. O'Leary wrote: > I'm visiting Abi at the moment and don't really have time to sit down > and go through all the details of proposals. However, I trust people to > raise the same objections I would. Therefore I'm voting aye to all > proposals made since my last post. Excellent > > On another issue, I believe the last notice of Consensus is invalid, as > I never voted in favour of it. The rules which I voted in favour of were > substantially equivalent to what was passed, but I think this is a > dangerous precedent to be setting. I'd like to know people's opinions on > this. > My opinion is we don't have a consensus of opinion and therefore it is not in fact a rule at present. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Sun Sep 26 11:21:25 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBW9l-0006H3-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:21:25 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45498) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBW9k-0005UM-0o (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:21:24 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CBW9j-0001ja-WB for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:21:24 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Stuff (plus new proposal) X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [81.78.147.137] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 11:22:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 26 Sep 2004 11:21:23 +0100 On Sep 26 2004, M.E.W. O'Leary wrote: > I'm visiting Abi at the moment and don't really have time to sit down > and go through all the details of proposals. However, I trust people to > raise the same objections I would. Therefore I'm voting aye to all > proposals made since my last post. Excellent! Only Maz to respond and the Ministry can come into existence. > On another issue, I believe the last notice of Consensus is invalid, as I > never voted in favour of it. The rules which I voted in favour of were > substantially equivalent to what was passed, but I think this is a > dangerous precedent to be setting. I'd like to know people's opinions on > this. If you didn't vote in favour of the proposal, it can't be a Consensus of Opinion. I'll remove the rule in question from the web page. If it's 'substantially equivalent' to the rules you were in favour of, do you want to vote in favour of it now (so Wild Card can issue another NoC and we can put it back), or do you have specific objections? I still think we need to revise the voting system, specifically to address: - Make sure proposals and revisions thereof are sufficiently distinct that this confusion can't arise so easily - Eliminate the need for unanimity (although I know people are against this) - Give proposals a time limit, so the outcome of a proposal is definitely known after a particular point I also propose the following new rule: ========== Insufficient Notices Any voting entity who creates a document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus which is not in fact valid shall be guilty of the crime of Taking Insufficient Notice. ========== adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sun Sep 26 12:23:04 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBX7Q-0008QH-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:23:04 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:54178) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBX7K-00081R-Om (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:22:58 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CBX7K-0001WK-2w for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:22:58 +0000 Message-ID: <4156A695.2080009@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Stuff (plus new proposal) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 12:24:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:23:01 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > I still think we need to revise the voting system, specifically to address: > > - Make sure proposals and revisions thereof are sufficiently distinct > that this confusion can't arise so easily Agreed. The Autonomic is one way to do this, as you cannot edit an existing proposal, you must add a new one and delete the old one > - Eliminate the need for > unanimity (although I know people are against this) I want to see where the game goes in the mean time-especially since we're going to be coming up and so probably without net access at various points over the next few weeks, so it might be better to wait until everyone was up in Cam and established > - Give proposals a > time limit, so the outcome of a proposal is definitely known after a > particular point I like the idea, but see my comment above-once we're back in Cam, this'll be far more reliable. Until I know I have a good network connection I'd vote against. > > I also propose the following new rule: > > ========== > Insufficient Notices > > Any voting entity who creates a document purporting to be a Notice of > Consensus which is not in fact valid shall be guilty of the crime of > Taking Insufficient Notice. ========== > Aye From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Sun Sep 26 17:06:25 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBbXd-0005gz-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:06:25 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:44320) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBbXb-00017F-Vy (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:06:24 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CBbXb-0007yW-V5 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:06:23 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 17:07:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 26 Sep 2004 17:06:23 +0100 Change your vote to "no" - it doesn't retcart the proposal, but it means it can't be passed. (Oh, if I voted yes on that, which I don't think I did, I change it to no.) On Sep 24 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > > > > >Aye to all, but when one of the "Window Cleaner" ones becomes a rule, I > >remove my consent to the other one. > > Ditto. This seems to make my Council proposal obsolete, I just don't > think I have any way to retract it do I? > > JJ > > > >Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > > >> I would like to make the following six proposals, all of which create > >> new rules and two of which are mutually contradictory: > >> > >>---------- > >>The Party Knows Best > >> > >> The game shall contain a Ministry which is a mapping of role names to > >> extranomic entities. If a role has a duty defined by the rules, and > >> that role is currently occupied by an extranomic entity, then that > >> entity is encouraged to perform the tasks specified by that duty. > >> ---------- > >> > >>---------- > >>Minister of Truth > >> > >> The duty of the Minister of Truth shall be to make available to all > >> players a reasonably current summary of the current proposals upon > >> which consensus has not been reached, and the standings of all members > >> of the List of Voters with respect to those proposals. ---------- > >> > >>---------- > >>Minister of Freedom > >> > >> The duty of the Minister of Freedom shall be to make available to all > >> players a reasonably current summary of the current state of the rules > >> of the game. ---------- > >> > >>---------- > >>Mike Is Not A Window Cleaner > >> > >>The Minister of Truth shall be Mike Cripps. > >>---------- > >> > >>---------- > >>Stumo Is Possibly A Window Cleaner > >> > >>The Minister of Truth shall be Stuart Moore. > >>---------- > >> > >>---------- > >>Adam Lives Underground Anyway > >> > >>The Minister of Freedom shall be Adam Biltcliffe. > >>---------- > >> > >> There you have it. I've made two nominations for Minister of Truth, > >> since Mike was the first to suggest he'd like to fulfil that role, but > >> Stumo has an exciting computer program to do it for him, and has also > >> nominated himself for a similar role. I suggest I should be Minister > >> of Freedom since I'm doing it anyway and it may as well be official. > >> > >>adam > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Nomic-talk mailing list > >>Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > >>http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Nomic-talk mailing list > >Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > >http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > > _________________________________________________________________ > Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Sun Sep 26 17:10:32 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBbbc-0005qd-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:10:32 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:44704) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBbbZ-0001in-RP (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:10:29 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CBbbZ-0008QF-QY for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:10:29 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Stuff (plus new proposal) X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 17:11:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 26 Sep 2004 17:10:29 +0100 Aye to taking insufficient notice. I suggest perhaps that each proposal be followed by a letter (A), and that each revision be updated with a new letter (O, E, U, etc. (or whatever.)) - and that a vote must specify which letter it refers to, or say something making it clear that it's voting for (X and all rules that have the same intent) or whatever. This is not a proposal, as it is not worded as one, but something to consider. On Sep 26 2004, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 26 2004, M.E.W. O'Leary wrote: > > > I'm visiting Abi at the moment and don't really have time to sit down > > and go through all the details of proposals. However, I trust people to > > raise the same objections I would. Therefore I'm voting aye to all > > proposals made since my last post. > > Excellent! Only Maz to respond and the Ministry can come into existence. > > > On another issue, I believe the last notice of Consensus is invalid, > > as I never voted in favour of it. The rules which I voted in favour of > > were substantially equivalent to what was passed, but I think this is a > > dangerous precedent to be setting. I'd like to know people's opinions > > on this. > > If you didn't vote in favour of the proposal, it can't be a Consensus of > Opinion. I'll remove the rule in question from the web page. If it's > 'substantially equivalent' to the rules you were in favour of, do you > want to vote in favour of it now (so Wild Card can issue another NoC and > we can put it back), or do you have specific objections? > > I still think we need to revise the voting system, specifically to > address: > > - Make sure proposals and revisions thereof are sufficiently distinct > that this confusion can't arise so easily - Eliminate the need for > unanimity (although I know people are against this) - Give proposals a > time limit, so the outcome of a proposal is definitely known after a > particular point > > I also propose the following new rule: > > ========== > Insufficient Notices > > Any voting entity who creates a document purporting to be a Notice of > Consensus which is not in fact valid shall be guilty of the crime of > Taking Insufficient Notice. ========== > > adam > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Sun Sep 26 17:40:13 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBc4L-0007L7-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:40:13 +0100 Received: from bay24-f34.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.84]:1119 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBc4H-0003VT-E5 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:40:09 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:40:01 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 16:39:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Stuff (plus new proposal) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Sep 2004 16:40:01.0920 (UTC) FILETIME=[77FF2800:01C4A3E7] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 17:41:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:39:54 +0100 > >Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > >> >>I still think we need to revise the voting system, specifically to >>address: >> >>- Make sure proposals and revisions thereof are sufficiently distinct that >>this confusion can't arise so easily > >Agreed. The Autonomic is one way to do this, as you cannot edit an existing >proposal, you must add a new one and delete the old one Agreed, but once again, I'm not prepared to accept anything on the Autonomic as canonical, so that's irrelevant. > >>- Eliminate the need for unanimity (although I know people are against >>this) > >I want to see where the game goes in the mean time-especially since we're >going to be coming up and so probably without net access at various points >over the next few weeks, so it might be better to wait until everyone was >up in Cam and established I'm in favour, and I'm curious to know what other solutions to the potential problem of two people hugely disagreeing on what should happen to the game, and therefore stalling it completely, the people against removing unanimity have come up with. > >>- Give proposals a time limit, so the outcome of a proposal is definitely >>known after a particular point > >I like the idea, but see my comment above-once we're back in Cam, this'll >be far more reliable. Until I know I have a good network connection I'd >vote against. That's done by the Rule of Assumed Consent, isn't it? > >> >>I also propose the following new rule: >> >>========== >>Insufficient Notices >> >>Any voting entity who creates a document purporting to be a Notice of >>Consensus which is not in fact valid shall be guilty of the crime of >>Taking Insufficient Notice. ========== >> > >Aye Aye _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Sun Sep 26 18:01:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBcOa-0008QZ-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:01:08 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:49424) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBcOX-0005PZ-9a (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:01:05 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CBcOV-0007Jl-00; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:01:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBcMx-0005Hp-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:59:27 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal -- Oy, that's unfair! Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 18:02:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:59:26 +0100 Oy, that's unfair! No rule may discriminate between players except on the basis of in-game factors. From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Sun Sep 26 18:18:09 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBcf3-0001Ap-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:18:09 +0100 Received: from bay24-f3.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.53]:3225 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBcf1-0000XL-09 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:18:07 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:18:00 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:17:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: [Nomic] More Proposals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Sep 2004 17:18:00.0483 (UTC) FILETIME=[C6204730:01C4A3EC] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 18:19:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:17:19 +0100 1. Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the same are Friendly. Any player whose location is at least 4 units from all other players (under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. Just something so that we can refer to such categories later if that becomes interesting. 2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at any time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, informing the other players of this fact and their new location. 3. This one's the biggie. Half the point of proposing this is just to get real discussion going on the subject: I propose changing the wording of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. to: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from each such entity that will be affected differently to all other such entities and all but at most one other such entity, and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. The effect of this would be to require that a proposal passes if it is voted for by all but one player, except if that player is discriminated against by it (by name of Ministry post or other suchlike. JJ _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Sun Sep 26 19:31:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBdng-000493-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:31:08 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:53636) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBdne-0002xw-0B (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:31:06 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CBdnb-000451-00; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:31:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBdgT-0005jS-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:23:41 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Stuff Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 19:32:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:23:41 +0100 (a) I say "yes" too all outstanding proposals. (b) I assert that my NoC was entirely valid, and hence that rule should be in the ruleset. (I'm not sure that I actually believe this; but someone has to at some point; the rules are rather fuzzy here). From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Sun Sep 26 20:55:12 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBf72-0007Ep-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:55:12 +0100 Received: from bay24-f38.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.88]:4144 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBf6z-0001Vi-GL (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:55:09 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:55:01 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:54:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] Stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Sep 2004 19:55:01.0680 (UTC) FILETIME=[B598DB00:01C4A402] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 20:56:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:54:56 +0100 > >(a) I say "yes" too all outstanding proposals. Yay! > >(b) I assert that my NoC was entirely valid, and hence that rule >should be in the ruleset. >(I'm not sure that I actually believe this; but someone has to at some > point; the rules are rather fuzzy here). > There was no agreed consensus since Martin didn't vote for your proposal, and hence the rule couldn't possibly have been correct. It doesn't matter whether you issued what you thought was a notice of consensus, it wasn't one, so there is no rule. JJ _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sun Sep 26 23:07:56 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBhBU-0005Vi-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:07:56 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:39542) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBhBR-0000op-BS (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:07:53 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CBhBQ-0006gq-OY for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:07:52 +0000 Message-ID: <41573DBB.7010202@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 23:08:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:07:55 +0100 David (Birch) wrote: > Change your vote to "no" - it doesn't retcart the proposal, but it means > it can't be passed. (Oh, if I voted yes on that, which I don't think I > did, I change it to no.) This is certainly true for anyone except the proposer. For the proposer himself, I'm not so sure > > On Sep 24 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >> >> > >> >Aye to all, but when one of the "Window Cleaner" ones becomes a rule, >> I >remove my consent to the other one.> >> Ditto. This seems to make my Council proposal obsolete, I just don't >> think I have any way to retract it do I? >> >> JJ >> > >> >Adam Biltcliffe wrote: >> > >> >> I would like to make the following six proposals, all of which >> create >> new rules and two of which are mutually contradictory: >> >> >> >>---------- >> >>The Party Knows Best >> >> >> >> The game shall contain a Ministry which is a mapping of role names >> to >> extranomic entities. If a role has a duty defined by the rules, >> and >> that role is currently occupied by an extranomic entity, then >> that >> entity is encouraged to perform the tasks specified by that >> duty. >> ---------- >> >> >> >>---------- >> >>Minister of Truth >> >> >> >> The duty of the Minister of Truth shall be to make available to all >> >> players a reasonably current summary of the current proposals upon >> >> which consensus has not been reached, and the standings of all >> members >> of the List of Voters with respect to those proposals. >> ---------- >> >> >> >>---------- >> >>Minister of Freedom >> >> >> >> The duty of the Minister of Freedom shall be to make available to >> all >> players a reasonably current summary of the current state of >> the rules >> of the game. ---------- >> >> >> >>---------- >> >>Mike Is Not A Window Cleaner >> >> >> >>The Minister of Truth shall be Mike Cripps. >> >>---------- >> >> >> >>---------- >> >>Stumo Is Possibly A Window Cleaner >> >> >> >>The Minister of Truth shall be Stuart Moore. >> >>---------- >> >> >> >>---------- >> >>Adam Lives Underground Anyway >> >> >> >>The Minister of Freedom shall be Adam Biltcliffe. >> >>---------- >> >> >> >> There you have it. I've made two nominations for Minister of Truth, >> >> since Mike was the first to suggest he'd like to fulfil that role, >> but >> Stumo has an exciting computer program to do it for him, and >> has also >> nominated himself for a similar role. I suggest I should >> be Minister >> of Freedom since I'm doing it anyway and it may as well >> be official. >> >> >> >>adam >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Nomic-talk mailing list >> >>Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >> >>http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Nomic-talk mailing list >> >Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >> >http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends >> http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nomic-talk mailing list >> Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk >> > From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sun Sep 26 23:13:38 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBhH0-0005ih-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:13:38 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:55841) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBhGx-0000Qf-9J (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:13:35 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CBhGs-0004i0-Dp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:13:30 +0000 Message-ID: <41573F0E.9000804@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] More Proposals References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 23:14:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:13:34 +0100 John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > 1. Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the > same are Friendly. > Any player whose location is at least 4 units from all other players > (under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. > > > Just something so that we can refer to such categories later if that > becomes interesting. > > > 2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at > any time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, > informing the other players of this fact and their new location. > > Aye to both of the above. > > 3. This one's the biggie. Half the point of proposing this is just to > get real discussion going on the subject: > > I propose changing the wording of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity > named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all > other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent > to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of > Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus > of Opinion has been reached. > > to: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity > named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all > other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent > to that proposal from each such entity that will be affected differently > to all other such entities and all but at most one other such entity, > and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members > detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. > > > The effect of this would be to require that a proposal passes if it is > voted for by all but one player, except if that player is discriminated > against by it (by name of Ministry post or other suchlike. > Nice idea, but a little awkward, as you can argue discrimination in many ways. E.g. we introduce an interest rate on the bank accounts, I have the least money in mine so benefit least, am I discriminated against? What if the situation is such that everyone except me has enough money to do but I don't? There are some rules where discrimination is clear, and others where it'd be difficult to argue discrimination. But there's a grey area From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sun Sep 26 23:18:58 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBhMA-0005un-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:18:58 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:50024) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBhM7-0002C0-5H (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:18:55 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CBhM6-0001bt-Rr for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:18:54 +0000 Message-ID: <41574053.7090803@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money: Summary (2) References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 23:19:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:18:59 +0100 Updated Summary: Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" (Version 2, see 18:39 25/09) For: Stuart, JJ, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary Against: No comment: David, Martin Lester, Carrie, Adam, Mike Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" For: Stuart, Carrie, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary Against: No comment: David, Martin Lester, Reserving Judgement: Adam, Mike, JJ Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" For: Stuart, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary Against: Carrie, No comment: David, Martin Lester, Reserving Judgement: Adam, Mike, JJ "Who's the banker in the black?" For: Stuart, JJ, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary Against: No Comment: David, Martin Lester, Carrie, Adam, Mike From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Sun Sep 26 23:58:17 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBhyD-0007Hk-00 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:58:17 +0100 Received: from bay24-f42.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.92]:3798 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBhy7-0002y6-Fa (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:58:11 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:58:04 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:57:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: [Nomic] New Summary (please vote) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Sep 2004 22:58:04.0548 (UTC) FILETIME=[47E58440:01C4A41C] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=1.173, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: s Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 26 23:59:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:57:29 +0100 >>4. The Law of Lizardmen. This is a pair of linked suggestions taking one >>the following form: >>The Rule of Autoadoption: >> >>Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters >>may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: >>1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). >>2) They are not already in the List of Voters. >>3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: >>a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. >>b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. >>c) They wish to join the game. >>Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of >>Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game.  Their consent is not >>needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration >>at the time of their joining the game. >> >>A Planet? Where Lizards evolved from Men? >>All entities eligible to be members of the List Of Voters (Which shall be >>all living extranomic entities of the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens) shall >>be considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV until a member of the List >>Of Voters states "I do not believe is a lizardman from >>Antares IV", where "" is to be replaced with the name of >>the entity in question. No existing member of the List Of Voters is a >>lizardman from Antares IV. >> >>Ayes: adam, Maz, JJ, Carrie, Madeleine, dok, Stumo, Mike (awaiting Martin's verdict on this wording of it) >> >> >>5. The Rule of Assumed Consent >>The current form of this is as follows: >>A player shall be considered to have given their consent to a proposal if >>the following are true: >>The proposal was suggested more than 72 hours ago, and they haven't >>explicitly expressed a lack of consent. >>Ayes: Maz, JJ, Carrie, dok, Martin, adam, Stumo, Madeleine >> >>6: The Law of Lexicography (reworded >There shall be a dictionary, called the Definitions Dictionary.  The >definitions given in the Definitions Dictionary superceed the usual >English meaning of terms for the purposes of the game; but are >overriden by explicit rules wording. >> >>Ayes: Maz, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, Martin, JJ, adam >>Not yet responded to the change: Carrie, dok >> >>8: The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: >>A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by >>name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, >>except those which mention it by name. >> >>Ayes: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok, Madeleine, Stumo >Withheld: Carrie (based on uncertainty about the matter of rules merely >referencing others rather than explicitly overriding them) >> >> >>11: The Rule of Self-Image >>The game shall have a name, which shall be "Terrapin Nomic". >> >>Ayes: JJ, adam, dok, Mike, Martin, Madeleine, Maz >Nay: Carrie, Stumo suggest something else then dammit! >> >> Twice the fun; harf the harf! A proposed rules change may be described as harfy. A proposed rules change can only become harfy if: a) No other proposed rules change is harfy. b) The Harfharfer declares that it is harfy. c) It was not proposed by the current Harfharfer. If a harfy rules change takes place then the following events happen: a) The entity which proposed the rules change gains one chocolate biscuit. b) The entity which proposed the rules change becomes the Harfharfer; the previous Harfharfer ceases to be the Harfharfer. c) If the rule change created a rule, then that rule may also be described as harfy. If there is no harfy rules change for three days, but there exist non-harfy proposed rules changes for that entire period, then the Harfharfer is guilty of the Crime of Hogging the Harf. The standard punishment for the Crime of Hogging the Harf shall be confiscation of two chocolate biscuits. Adam Biltcliffe becomes the Harfharfer; The Rule of Girls may be described as harfy; and this paragraph is deleted from the rules. Proposer: Madeleine Aye: adam, JJ, dok Nay: Mike, Carrie But I can't hear it! /* -- REM, Radio Song */ Any text in a rule between C-style comment delimiters; as demonstrated above; has no rules effect, and exists only as a comment Proposer: Madeleine Aye: JJ Nay: adam, dok Spooky Action At A Distance A voter may declare that a rules change that they have proposed is entwined with another existing proposed rules change. A rules change cannot be considered to have a Consensus of Opinion in favour of it if any rules changed that it has been entwined with has already recieved a Consensus of Opinion. This rule overrides Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion. Proposer: Madeleine Aye: adam Nay: JJ, Carrie Bored Of Being Board There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). === Proposer: Martin Aye: JJ, Stumo, adam, Carrie, Madeleine, dok The Party Knows Best The game shall contain a Ministry which is a mapping of role names to extranomic entities. If a role has a duty defined by the rules, and that role is currently occupied by an extranomic entity, then that entity is encouraged to perform the tasks specified by that duty. ---------- Prop: adam Aye: Carrie, Madeleine, Mike, Stumo, dok, JJ, Martin ---------- Minister of Truth The duty of the Minister of Truth shall be to make available to all players a reasonably current summary of the current proposals upon which consensus has not been reached, and the standings of all members of the List of Voters with respect to those proposals. ---------- Prop: adam Aye: Carrie, Madeleine, Mike, Stumo, dok, JJ, Martin ---------- Minister of Freedom The duty of the Minister of Freedom shall be to make available to all players a reasonably current summary of the current state of the rules of the game. ---------- Prop: adam Aye: Carrie, Madeleine, Mike, Stumo, dok, JJ, Martin ---------- Mike Is Not A Window Cleaner The Minister of Truth shall be Mike Cripps. ---------- Prop: adam Aye: Carrie, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, dok, JJ, Martin ---------- Stumo Is Possibly A Window Cleaner The Minister of Truth shall be Stuart Moore. ---------- Prop: adam Aye: Madeleine, JJ, Stumo, dok, Martin Nay: Carrie, Mike, ---------- Adam Lives Underground Anyway The Minister of Freedom shall be Adam Biltcliffe. ---------- Prop: adam Aye: Madeleine, Mike, Stumo, dok, JJ, Carrie, Martin http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lookaroundyou/periodic.shtml is the official Periodic Table for the game. Prop: Madeleine Aye: Mike, Stumo, dok, adam, JJ, Carrie, Martin Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" --- Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with balance zero. --- Prop: Stumo Aye: Carrie, Madeleine, dok, JJ, Martin Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" --- Each member of the list of voters will have their BANK accounts increased by one currency unit at midnight each night. --- Prop: Stumo Aye: Carrie, Madeleine, dok, Martin, JJ Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" --- On distribution of a valid Notice of Consensus, each member of the list of voters shall have the contents of their BANK account multiplied by 1.2 and rounded up to an integer amount. --- Prop: Stumo Aye: Madeleine, dok, Martin Nay: Carrie, JJ Insufficient Notices Any voting entity who creates a document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus which is not in fact valid shall be guilty of the crime of Taking Insufficient Notice. ========== Prop: adam Aye: Stumo, dok, JJ, Madeleine Oy, that's unfair! No rule may discriminate between players except on the basis of in-game factors. Prop: Madeleine Nay: JJ Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" --- Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with balance zero. Balances will be looked after by the Chief Cashier, who should publish a breakdown of balances and transaction history for each day. The post of Chief Cashier will be a Ministry post, should this phrase have any meaning in the game. --- Prop: Stumo Aye: JJ, Martin, Madeleine Proposal for the creation of the rule "Who's the banker in the black?" --- The Chief Cashier will be Stuart Moore --- Prop: Stumo Aye: JJ, Martin, Madeleine 1. Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the same are Friendly. Any player whose location is at least 4 units from all other players (under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. Prop: JJ Aye: Madeleine, Stumo 2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at any time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, informing the other players of this fact and their new location. Prop: JJ Aye: Madeleine, Stumo 3. This one's the biggie. Half the point of proposing this is just to get real discussion going on the subject: I propose changing the wording of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. to: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from each such entity that will be affected differently to all other such entities and all but at most one other such entity, and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. Prop: JJ Aye: Madeleine _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Mon Sep 27 00:05:50 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBi5W-0007gC-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:05:50 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:51191) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBi5T-0001mu-80 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:05:47 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CBi5S-0005Rk-QP for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:05:46 +0000 Message-ID: <41574B4F.7060604@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] New Summary (please vote) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 00:06:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:05:51 +0100 John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > > Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" > --- > Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with > The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account > consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with > balance zero. > --- > Prop: Stumo > Aye: Carrie, Madeleine, dok, JJ, Martin > Note I consider this version of the proposal withdrawn in favour of the later one which mentions the Cashier, but as I read the rules I have no official way of doing so From mml27@hermes.cam.ac.uk Mon Sep 27 00:34:26 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBiXC-00009V-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:34:26 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:48496) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBiXA-0002ge-7S (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:34:24 +0100 Received: from mml27 (helo=localhost) by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBiXA-0008Ch-6Y for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:34:24 +0100 From: "M.M. Lester" X-X-Sender: mml27@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] New Summary (please vote) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 00:35:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:34:24 +0100 (BST) Maz's brief list of votes: > > Twice the fun; harf the harf! > Yes. Sounds entertaining. > But I can't hear it! > Yes. > > Spooky Action At A Distance > No. > > > Bored Of Being Board > I like the sound of that. Yes. > > The Party Knows Best > Yes. > > ---------- > Minister of Truth > Yes. > > ---------- > Minister of Freedom > Yes. > > > ---------- > Mike Is Not A Window Cleaner > Yes. > > ---------- > Stumo Is Possibly A Window Cleaner > No. > > Adam Lives Underground Anyway > Yes. > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lookaroundyou/periodic.shtml is the > official Periodic Table for the game. > *chuckle* Yes. > > Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" > --- Yes. > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" > --- Yes. > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" > --- Yes. > > Insufficient Notices > Yes. > Oy, that's unfair! > No. I think what constitutes discrimination based upon extra-nomic factors needs to be better defined. > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" > --- Yes. > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "Who's the banker in the black?" > --- Yes. > > 1. Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the same > are Friendly. > Any player whose location is at least 4 units from all other players (under a > Euclidean metric) is a Loner. > Yes. > > 2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at any > time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, informing the > other players of this fact and their new location. > Yes. > > 3. This one's the biggie. Half the point of proposing this is just to get > real discussion going on the subject: > > I propose changing the wording of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on > the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other > entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that > proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to > the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has > been reached. > > to: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on > the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other > entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that > proposal from each such entity that will be affected differently to all other > such entities and all but at most one other such entity, and then posts a > public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon > which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. > > Prop: JJ > Aye: Madeleine > Yes. Maz. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 00:40:01 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBicb-0000K7-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:40:01 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:40611) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBicU-0007qY-Nk (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:39:54 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CBicT-0001ua-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:39:53 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBibS-0008Dt-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:38:50 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal -- House of Cards Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 00:40:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:38:50 +0100 House of Cards A Pack of Cards has 42 cards; consisting of eight ranks; 78ATKQJ9; in each of five suits; BFGKP; and two Jokers. The ranks have the following names: 7 Seven 8 Six A Ace T Ten K King Q Queen J Jack 9 Nine The suits have the following names: B Bombs F Fridges G Guns K Knives P Poisons The Jokers are: The Umpire The Cop From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 02:46:06 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBkac-0003CI-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 02:46:06 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:45005) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBkaa-0005AJ-Dn (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 02:46:04 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CBkaZ-0007rC-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 02:46:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBivO-0008Px-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:59:26 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: Message from Jonathan David Amery of "Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:24:59 BST." From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Notice of Consent -- Back Here Again Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 02:47:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:59:26 +0100 This is an Lu-coloured Notice of Consent; the following Rule has been Consented to: ---- Back Here Again http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lookaroundyou/periodic.shtml is the official Periodic Table for the game. From mikec@mxtelecom.com Mon Sep 27 09:56:56 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBrJY-00049U-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:56:56 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:48715 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBrJR-0007zl-8h (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:56:49 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CBrJK-00065k-F8 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:56:42 +0100 Message-ID: <4157D5C0.3020009@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] New Summary (please vote) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=1.173, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: s Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 09:57:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:56:32 +0100 John-Joseph Wilks wrote: >>> 4. The Law of Lizardmen. This is a pair of linked suggestions taking >>> one the following form: >>> The Rule of Autoadoption: >>> >>> Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters >>> may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: >>> 1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). >>> 2) They are not already in the List of Voters. >>> 3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: >>> a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. >>> b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. >>> c) They wish to join the game. >>> Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of >>> Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game. Their consent is not >>> needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration >>> at the time of their joining the game. >>> >>> A Planet? Where Lizards evolved from Men? >>> All entities eligible to be members of the List Of Voters (Which >>> shall be all living extranomic entities of the species Homo Sapiens >>> Sapiens) shall be considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV until a >>> member of the List Of Voters states "I do not believe >> entity> is a lizardman from >>> Antares IV", where "" is to be replaced with the name >>> of the entity in question. No existing member of the List Of Voters >>> is a lizardman from Antares IV. >>> >>> Ayes: adam, Maz, JJ, Carrie, Madeleine, dok, Stumo, Mike > > > (awaiting Martin's verdict on this wording of it) > >>> >>> >>> 5. The Rule of Assumed Consent >>> The current form of this is as follows: >>> A player shall be considered to have given their consent to a >>> proposal if the following are true: >>> The proposal was suggested more than 72 hours ago, and they haven't >>> explicitly expressed a lack of consent. >>> Ayes: Maz, JJ, Carrie, dok, Martin, adam, Stumo, Madeleine + Aye: Mike > > >>> >>> 6: The Law of Lexicography (reworded >> >> There shall be a dictionary, called the Definitions Dictionary. The >> definitions given in the Definitions Dictionary superceed the usual >> English meaning of terms for the purposes of the game; but are >> overriden by explicit rules wording. >> >>> >>> Ayes: Maz, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, Martin, JJ, adam >>> Not yet responded to the change: Carrie, dok >>> > >>> 8: The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: >>> A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by >>> name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, >>> except those which mention it by name. >>> >>> Ayes: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok, Madeleine, Stumo +Aye: Mike >> >> Withheld: Carrie (based on uncertainty about the matter of rules >> merely referencing others rather than explicitly overriding them) >> >>> > >>> > But I can't hear it! > > /* -- REM, Radio Song */ > > Any text in a rule between C-style comment delimiters; as demonstrated > above; has no rules effect, and exists only as a comment > > Proposer: Madeleine > Aye: JJ > Nay: adam, dok > +Aye: Mike > > > Spooky Action At A Distance > > A voter may declare that a rules change that they have proposed is > entwined with another existing proposed rules change. > > A rules change cannot be considered to have a Consensus of Opinion in > favour of it if any rules changed that it has been entwined with has > already recieved a Consensus of Opinion. This rule overrides Rule 4, > Consensus of Opinion. > > Proposer: Madeleine > Aye: adam > Nay: JJ, Carrie > +Nay: Mike > > Bored Of Being Board > > There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of > Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of > entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If > at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The > Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). > === > > Proposer: Martin > Aye: JJ, Stumo, adam, Carrie, Madeleine, dok > +Aye: Mike > > Proposal the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" > --- > Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with > The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account > consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with > balance zero. > --- > Prop: Stumo > Aye: Carrie, Madeleine, dok, JJ, Martin > +Aye: Mike > > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" > --- > Each member of the list of voters will have their BANK accounts > increased by one currency unit at midnight each night. > --- > Prop: Stumo > Aye: Carrie, Madeleine, dok, Martin, JJ +Aye: Mike > > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" > --- > On distribution of a valid Notice of Consensus, each member of the list > of voters shall have the contents of their BANK account multiplied by > 1.2 and rounded up to an integer amount. > --- > Prop: Stumo > Aye: Madeleine, dok, Martin > Nay: Carrie, JJ +Nay: Mike > > > Insufficient Notices > > Any voting entity who creates a document purporting to be a Notice of > Consensus which is not in fact valid shall be guilty of the crime of > Taking Insufficient Notice. ========== > > Prop: adam > Aye: Stumo, dok, JJ, Madeleine > +Aye: Mike > > Oy, that's unfair! > > No rule may discriminate between players except on the basis of > in-game factors. > > Prop: Madeleine > Nay: JJ > > +Nay: Mike > > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" > --- > Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with > The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account > consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with > balance zero. Balances will be looked after by the Chief Cashier, who > should publish a breakdown of balances and transaction history for each > day. The post of Chief Cashier will be a Ministry post, should this > phrase have any meaning in the game. > --- > Prop: Stumo > Aye: JJ, Martin, Madeleine Ummm, this was ^^ too. Still Aye, though. > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "Who's the banker in the black?" > --- > The Chief Cashier will be Stuart Moore > --- > Prop: Stumo > Aye: JJ, Martin, Madeleine +Aye: Mike > > > > 1. Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the > same are Friendly. > Any player whose location is at least 4 units from all other players > (under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. > > Prop: JJ > Aye: Madeleine, Stumo +Aye: Mike > > > > > 2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at > any time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, > informing the other players of this fact and their new location. > > Prop: JJ > Aye: Madeleine, Stumo +Aye: Mike > > > > 3. This one's the biggie. Half the point of proposing this is just to > get real discussion going on the subject: > > I propose changing the wording of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity > named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all > other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent > to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of > Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus > of Opinion has been reached. > > to: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity > named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all > other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent > to that proposal from each such entity that will be affected differently > to all other such entities and all but at most one other such entity, > and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members > detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. > > Prop: JJ > Aye: Madeleine +Nay: Mike everyone will be treated differently by almost every rule - either preferentially or negatively by the rule. Mike From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Mon Sep 27 11:54:15 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBt95-0000KU-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:54:15 +0100 Received: from bay24-f28.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.78]:1194 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBt91-0005ok-7q (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:54:11 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 03:54:02 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:53:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: [Nomic] Notice of Consensus: The Rule of Assumed Consent Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2004 10:54:02.0725 (UTC) FILETIME=[4CF72150:01C4A480] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=1.173, THE_FOLLOWING_FORM 1.17) X-Cam-SpamScore: s Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 11:55:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:53:58 +0100 This is a lilac-coloured Notice of Consensus for the following rule to be added to the ruleset The Rule of Assumed Consent: A player shall be considered to have given their consent to a proposal if the following are true: The proposal was suggested more than 72 hours ago, and they haven't explicitly expressed a lack of consent. >>>>8: The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: >>>>A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by >>>>name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, >>>>except those which mention it by name. >>>> >>>>Ayes: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok, Madeleine, Stumo, Carrie > >+Aye: Mike > is awaiting Notice of Consensus from whoever proposed it. >>Bored Of Being Board >> >>There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of >>Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of >>entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If >>at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The >>Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). >>=== >> >>Proposer: Martin >>Aye: JJ, Stumo, adam, Carrie, Madeleine, dok >> > >+Aye: Mike is awaiting Notice of Consensus from Martin 5 of the 6 proposals adam made simultaneously are also awaiting Notice of Consensus from him. >John-Joseph Wilks wrote: >>>>4. The Law of Lizardmen. This is a pair of linked suggestions taking one >>>>the following form: >>>>The Rule of Autoadoption: >>>> >>>>Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters >>>>may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: >>>>1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). >>>>2) They are not already in the List of Voters. >>>>3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: >>>>a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. >>>>b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. >>>>c) They wish to join the game. >>>>Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of >>>>Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game. Their consent is not >>>>needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration >>>>at the time of their joining the game. >>>> >>>>A Planet? Where Lizards evolved from Men? >>>>All entities eligible to be members of the List Of Voters (Which shall >>>>be all living extranomic entities of the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens) >>>>shall be considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV until a member of >>>>the List Of Voters states "I do not believe is a >>>>lizardman from >>>>Antares IV", where "" is to be replaced with the name of >>>>the entity in question. No existing member of the List Of Voters is a >>>>lizardman from Antares IV. >>>> >>>>Ayes: adam, Maz, JJ, Carrie, Madeleine, dok, Stumo, Mike >> >> >>(awaiting Martin's verdict on this wording of it) >> >>>> >>>> >>>>6: The Law of Lexicography (reworded >>> >>>There shall be a dictionary, called the Definitions Dictionary. The >>>definitions given in the Definitions Dictionary superceed the usual >>>English meaning of terms for the purposes of the game; but are >>>overriden by explicit rules wording. >>> >>>> >>>>Ayes: Maz, Mike, Madeleine, Stumo, Martin, JJ, adam >>>>Not yet responded to the change: Carrie, dok >>>> >>But I can't hear it! >> >>/* -- REM, Radio Song */ >> >>Any text in a rule between C-style comment delimiters; as demonstrated >>above; has no rules effect, and exists only as a comment >> >>Proposer: Madeleine >>Aye: JJ >>Nay: adam, dok >> > >+Aye: Mike > > >> >> >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" >>--- >>Each member of the list of voters will have their BANK accounts increased >>by one currency unit at midnight each night. >>--- >>Prop: Stumo >>Aye: Carrie, Madeleine, dok, Martin, JJ > >+Aye: Mike > >>Insufficient Notices >> >>Any voting entity who creates a document purporting to be a Notice of >>Consensus which is not in fact valid shall be guilty of the crime of >>Taking Insufficient Notice. ========== >> >>Prop: adam >> Aye: Stumo, dok, JJ, Madeleine >> > >+Aye: Mike > >> >>Oy, that's unfair! >> >>No rule may discriminate between players except on the basis of >>in-game factors. >> >>Prop: Madeleine >>Nay: JJ >+Nay: Mike > >> >> >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" >>--- >>Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with The >>"Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account >>consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with >>balance zero. Balances will be looked after by the Chief Cashier, who >>should publish a breakdown of balances and transaction history for each >>day. The post of Chief Cashier will be a Ministry post, should this phrase >>have any meaning in the game. >>--- >>Prop: Stumo >>Aye: JJ, Martin, Madeleine, Mike >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "Who's the banker in the black?" >>--- >>The Chief Cashier will be Stuart Moore >>--- >>Prop: Stumo >>Aye: JJ, Martin, Madeleine > >+Aye: Mike > >> >> >> >>1. Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the >>same are Friendly. >>Any player whose location is at least 4 units from all other players >>(under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. >> >>Prop: JJ >>Aye: Madeleine, Stumo > >+Aye: Mike > >> >> >> >> >>2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at any >>time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, informing >>the other players of this fact and their new location. >> >>Prop: JJ >>Aye: Madeleine, Stumo > >+Aye: Mike > >> >> >> >>3. This one's the biggie. Half the point of proposing this is just to get >>real discussion going on the subject: >> >>I propose changing the wording of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: >> >>A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named >>on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other >>entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that >>proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus >>to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion >>has been reached. >> >>to: >> >>A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named >>on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other >>entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that >>proposal from each such entity that will be affected differently to all >>other such entities and all but at most one other such entity, and then >>posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the >>issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. >> >>Prop: JJ >>Aye: Madeleine > >+Nay: Mike > >everyone will be treated differently by almost every rule - either >preferentially or negatively by the rule. > >Mike _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 12:08:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBtMg-00014N-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:08:18 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:50234) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBtMW-0003Jf-SP (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:08:08 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CBtMQ-0005Ki-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:08:03 +0100 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=cleopatra ident=jdamery) by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBtFW-0003Rt-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:01:01 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] chartreuse-coloured Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 12:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:59:43 +0100 This is a chartreuse-coloured Notice of Consensus: ==== Rule 10, The Law of Lizardmen. Any entities which are elegible to be members of the List of Voters may join the game providing that the following conditions are satisfied: 1) They have subscribed to the mailing list (if there is one). 2) They are not already in the List of Voters. 3) They have made a post to the mailing list declaring that: a) All of 1-3 are satisfied. b) They are not a lizardman from Antares IV. c) They wish to join the game. Once these events have happened then they are added to the List of Voters, and are deemed to have joined the game. Their consent is not needed on any issues that require consent that are under consideration at the time of their joining the game. All entities eligible to be members of the List Of Voters (Which shall be all living extranomic entities of the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens) shall be considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV until a member of the List Of Voters states "I do not believe " is to be replaced with the name of the entity in question. No existing member of the List Of Voters is a lizardman from Antares IV. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 12:23:10 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBtb4-0001kf-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:23:10 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:51289) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBtaz-0001Rn-H7 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:23:05 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CBtax-0006rj-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:23:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBtZK-0003fy-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:21:22 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Consensus - Lexicography Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 12:24:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:21:22 +0100 This is a light goldenrod yellow coloured Notice of Consent for the Law of Lexicography which has achieved assumed Consent, and shall be added into the rules: ---- The Law of Lexicography There shall be a dictionary, called the Definitions Dictionary. The definitions given in the definitions dictionary superceed the usual english meaning of terms for the purposes of the game; but are overriden by explicit rules wording. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 17:08:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBy2t-0006oa-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:08:11 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:45216) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBy2m-0001U1-U1 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:08:04 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CBy2l-0004xd-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:08:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBy18-0005cR-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:06:22 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal and Qurstion Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 17:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:06:21 +0100 Should I advertise us on http://www.nomic.net/~nomicwiki/ ? Proposal: ---- The Rule of Names The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of more than half of the List of Voters will become the Name of the Game and any other Name Proposals shall be dropped. From mikec@mxtelecom.com Mon Sep 27 17:12:31 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CBy75-00071Y-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:12:31 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:55425 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CBy70-0007Dn-Um (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:12:27 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CBy6v-0007CH-1v for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:12:21 +0100 Message-ID: <41583BDB.9070907@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal and Qurstion References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 17:13:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:12:11 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Should I advertise us on http://www.nomic.net/~nomicwiki/ ? Nay > > Proposal: > ---- > The Rule of Names > > The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player > may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of > more than half of the List of Voters will become the Name of the Game > and any other Name Proposals shall be dropped. > Nay - this doesn't preclude the name of the game changing at a later date. (One can propose more name proposals after the name is picked). Mike From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 17:38:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CByVv-0008DM-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:38:11 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:47137) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CByVp-0000WO-30 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:38:05 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CByVo-0000Gy-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:38:04 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CByTy-0005pf-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:36:10 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal and Qurstion In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:12:11 BST." <41583BDB.9070907@mxtelecom.com> References: <41583BDB.9070907@mxtelecom.com> From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 17:39:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:36:09 +0100 > Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > > Proposal: > > ---- > > The Rule of Names > > > > The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player > > may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of > > more than half of the List of Voters will become the Name of the Game > > and any other Name Proposals shall be dropped. > > > > Nay - this doesn't preclude the name of the game changing at a later > date. (One can propose more name proposals after the name is picked). "Until a name is chosen"... From mikec@mxtelecom.com Mon Sep 27 17:41:43 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CByZL-0008LF-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:41:43 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:55856 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CByZF-0001OT-O7 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:41:37 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CByZ7-0007oJ-8D for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:41:29 +0100 Message-ID: <415842B5.1060706@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal and Qurstion References: <41583BDB.9070907@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 17:42:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:41:25 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: >>Jonathan David Amery wrote: >> >> >>>Proposal: >>>---- >>>The Rule of Names >>> >>>The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player >>>may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of >>>more than half of the List of Voters will become the Name of the Game >>>and any other Name Proposals shall be dropped. >>> >> >>Nay - this doesn't preclude the name of the game changing at a later >>date. (One can propose more name proposals after the name is picked). > > > "Until a name is chosen"... > Hmmm. OK. What if two names both get more-than-half support? Mike From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Mon Sep 27 20:14:19 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC0x1-00089S-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:14:19 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:33109) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC0wz-0005v2-7B (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:14:17 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC0wz-00059v-5F for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:14:17 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Stuff (plus new proposal) X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.143.26] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 20:15:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 27 Sep 2004 20:14:17 +0100 On Sep 26 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > > >>I still think we need to revise the voting system, specifically to > >>address: > > >> - Give proposals a time limit, so the outcome of a proposal is > >> definitely known after a particular point > > That's done by the Rule of Assumed Consent, isn't it? No. If a proposal *doesn't* get consensus, it floats around forever, and potentially could be resurrected at any time by everyone giving consent to it. I believe this would be confusing and a bad thing, so I want proposals to die if they fail to be voted in within some time limit. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Mon Sep 27 20:22:39 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC155-0008Pg-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:22:39 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:34435) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC152-0004mX-C1 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:22:36 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC152-0006LB-Aw for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:22:36 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.143.26] In-Reply-To: <41573DBB.7010202@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <41573DBB.7010202@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 20:23:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 27 Sep 2004 20:22:36 +0100 On Sep 26 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > David (Birch) wrote: > > Change your vote to "no" - it doesn't retcart the proposal, but it > > means it can't be passed. (Oh, if I voted yes on that, which I don't > > think I did, I change it to no.) > > This is certainly true for anyone except the proposer. For the proposer > himself, I'm not so sure Nup. The proposer technically has no say on eir own proposal, but since e is the only one who can issue a Notice of Consensus on it, e actually has the ability to prevent it passing anyway. However, for anyone else, there is *no* way to retract your vote. Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion simply says you have to obtain consent from each voting entity. It says nothing about this consent being invalidated by later retractions. (I note that this is another point in which your interpretation of the rules in implementing the AutoNomic appears to differ from what they actually say.) adam From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 21:08:12 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC1nA-0001mI-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:08:12 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:60111) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC1n2-0006k8-Ks (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:08:04 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CC1n1-0006RW-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:08:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC1m4-0006to-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:07:04 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Stuff (plus new proposal) In-Reply-To: Your message of "27 Sep 2004 20:14:17 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 21:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:07:04 +0100 > On Sep 26 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > > > >Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > > > > >>I still think we need to revise the voting system, specifically to > > >>address: > > > > >> - Give proposals a time limit, so the outcome of a proposal is > > >> definitely known after a particular point > > > > That's done by the Rule of Assumed Consent, isn't it? > > No. If a proposal *doesn't* get consensus, it floats around forever, and > potentially could be resurrected at any time by everyone giving consent to > it. I believe this would be confusing and a bad thing, so I want proposals > to die if they fail to be voted in within some time limit. > In case anyone thinks that this is unlikely; this actually happened to the US... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-Seventh_Amendment WC. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Mon Sep 27 21:09:23 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC1oJ-0001pQ-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:09:23 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:39733) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC1oG-0000iO-Ly (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:09:20 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC1oG-0004HR-L6 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:09:20 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal and Qurstion X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.143.26] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 21:10:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 27 Sep 2004 21:09:20 +0100 On Sep 27 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Should I advertise us on http://www.nomic.net/~nomicwiki/ ? I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I'd wait until a) we have a rule which allows us to add new players, b) we don't require unanimity for all changes (since otherwise one player can stall the game indefinitely). adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Mon Sep 27 21:15:38 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC1uM-00023M-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:15:38 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:41107) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC1uI-0001mb-Tk (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:15:34 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC1uI-0005A0-Sq for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:15:34 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.143.26] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] some opinions Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 21:16:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 27 Sep 2004 21:15:34 +0100 My stance on all outstanding issues upon which I have not yet passed comment: I oppose both of Wild Card's proposed 'simplification' changes to Rule 4 on the grounds that with the passing of Assumed Consent, it's no different to the current situation, and I'd still like to actually alter Rule 4 soon enough that I don't see the point. I consent to Dave's proposed rule "The whole world in your hand". I note, however, that if we're going to make this have any effect on the game, we should introduce disadvantages to laying claim to a large number of extranomic entities, so that people don't just grab every single thing they can get. I'm treating the other two rules proposed in that email as separate, and will address them both separately: I object to "Monopoly!" for a number of reasons. The easiest one is that it violates the principle of not requiring actions to be taken by extranomic entities. I don't object to "The contents of vault 37A" in principle, but I must object in practice. The wording of the second sentence appears to have an unintended effect, in that I take the literal interpretation to be that if there is no vaultmaster, anyone who submits a proposal to appoint one can then immediately make the appointment themselves without input from any other voter. I reaffirm my consent for "the Law of Lizardmen", since even though I believe the original NoC was invalid, I still think it should be in the rules. Can it now be passed under Assumed Consent? I consent to the proposed version of "Screw You, Anti Capitalists" which mentions the Chief Cashier, and object to the other one. I also consent to "Who's the banker in the black?" and "A job? What's that then?" but object to "Bureaucrats (Inc)". I object to "Oy, that's unfair!" at the moment since it would invalidate rules such as "The Minister of Truth shall be ...", but I agree that this issue should probably be addressed. I would consent to JJ's two proposed rules about distances and moving on the board, but they don't appear to have names, so I must regretfully object. I object to JJ's proposed change to Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion, since I feel it is dangerously vague about what entails being 'affected differently'. I think something concrete would be better, and we should possibly look into adding rules for election of Ministry positions so that we can dispense with rules such as "Mike shall be ..." and implement something more akin to Wild Card's proposal. I consent to 'House of Cards' and 'The Rule of Names'. Since the rule of assumed consent has now passed, to avoid confusion later, I hereby object to all proposals to which I have not explicitly given consent. Notices of Consensus for my five passed proposals are coming up. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Mon Sep 27 21:33:33 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC2Bh-0002gg-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:33:33 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:43158) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC2Bf-0004vt-EI (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:33:31 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC2Bf-0007LX-DN for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:33:31 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.143.26] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] There exists a Ministry (NoC x 5) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 21:34:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 27 Sep 2004 21:33:31 +0100 ---------- This is a Notice of Consensus, printed on red paper, heralding the addition of the following rule to the ruleset: The Party Knows Best The game shall contain a Ministry which is a mapping of role names to extranomic entities. If a role has a duty defined by the rules, and that role is currently occupied by an extranomic entity, then that entity is encouraged to perform the tasks specified by that duty. ---------- ---------- This is a Notice of Consensus, printed on orange paper, which heralds the addition of the following rule to the ruleset: Minister of Truth The duty of the Minister of Truth shall be to make available to all players a reasonably current summary of the current proposals upon which consensus has not been reached, and the standings of all members of the List of Voters with respect to those proposals. ---------- ---------- This Notice of Consensus, printed on yellow paper, is heralding the addition of the following rule to the ruleset: Minister of Freedom The duty of the Minister of Freedom shall be to make available to all players a reasonably current summary of the current state of the rules of the game. ---------- ---------- This, printed on green paper, is a Notice of Consensus which heralds the addition to the ruleset of the following rule: Mike Is Not A Window Cleaner The Minister of Truth shall be Mike Cripps. ---------- ---------- The addition to the ruleset of the following rule is heralded by this Notice of Consensus, which is printed on purple paper with white spots: Adam Lives Underground Anyway The Minister of Freedom shall be Adam Biltcliffe. ---------- From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 23:01:48 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC3Z6-00087R-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:01:48 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:38438) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC3Z1-0003BP-Ak (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:01:43 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CC3Z0-0008ID-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:01:42 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC3Yu-0007fH-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:01:36 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Threadsplit. Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 23:02:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:01:36 +0100 I'm borrowing terminology from Acka here; since we haven't invented any. I declare Threadsplit on the game state. The problem is the Rule of Assumed Consent. "...and they haven't explicitly expressed a lack of consent." On Sunday, in http://www.srcf.ucam.org/pipermail/nomic-talc/2004-September/000247.html MEWO said "I believe [The NoC for Lizardmen] is invalid, as I never voted in favour of it." So, there are a number of different ways of interpreting the gamestate; which I call 'threads'. Thread A: Assertion: MEWO is incorrect, and his prior vote for an earlier version of the proposal did count. Conclusions: Wild Card's original NoC was correct; his subsequent one was superfluous (noise); the rules should include the rule of Lizardmen as Rule 10. Thread B: Assertion: MEWO was correct. However, his mail does not constitute explicitly expressing a lack of consent. Conclusions: Wild Card's original NoC was incorrect; the subsequent one was correct; the rules should include the rule of Lizardmen as Rule 12. Thread C: Assertion: MEWO was correct. Also his mail constituted explicitly expressing a lack of consent, but did not constitute explicitly stating that he was opposed either. Conclusions: Wild Card's original NoC was incorrect; the subsequent one was also incorrect; the rules should not include the rule of Lizardmen; should MEWO later consent then Wild Card could validly post an NoC for the Rule of Autoadoption. Thread D: Assertion: MEWO was correct. Also his mail constituted explicitly expressing a lack of consent, in the process constituting opposition. Conclusions: Wild Card's original NoC was incorrect; the subsequent one was also incorrect; the rules should not include the rule of Lizardmen; The Rule of Lizardmen can't be adopted in it's current form. Unfortunately, we have no way of deciding between these threads... WC. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 23:08:35 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC3ff-0008RV-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:08:35 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:38730) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC3fS-0001Md-V5 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:08:22 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CC3fQ-0000QD-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:08:20 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC3fG-0007jf-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:08:10 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal and Qurstion In-Reply-To: Message from Mike Cripps of "Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:41:25 BST." <415842B5.1060706@mxtelecom.com> References: <41583BDB.9070907@mxtelecom.com> <415842B5.1060706@mxtelecom.com> From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 23:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:08:10 +0100 > Jonathan David Amery wrote: > >>Jonathan David Amery wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Proposal: > >>>---- > >>>The Rule of Names > >>> > >>>The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player > >>>may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of > >>>more than half of the List of Voters will become the Name of the Game > >>>and any other Name Proposals shall be dropped. > >>> > >> > >>Nay - this doesn't preclude the name of the game changing at a later > >>date. (One can propose more name proposals after the name is picked). > > > > > > "Until a name is chosen"... > > > > Hmmm. OK. What if two names both get more-than-half support? > OK, recognising that this version will never get passed; and all that; a new Proposal... Proposal: ---- The Rule of Names The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of more than half of the List of Voters, and strictly more support than every other name will become the Name of the Game and any other Name Proposals shall be dropped. From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Mon Sep 27 23:22:38 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC3tG-0000ac-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:22:38 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:54277) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC3tE-0006Qz-1g (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:22:36 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC3tE-0003Vs-0g for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:22:36 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Rule five. Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 23:23:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 27 Sep 2004 23:22:36 +0100 I propose the following rule: Rule five. Once the notice of consensus for this rule is issued, all rules with higher numbers than this rule stand, but every fifth word (starting at the title of the rule) is not considered to exist. This rule does not affect any proposal under consideration at the time the notice of consensus is passed, and any rule passed from one of these proposals is put into the ruleset above this rule, the number of this rule being changed accordingly. I also wish the following term be added to the dictionary, (If there is any confusion) Word: A word is any string of characters, including exclusively the commonly recognised twenty-six letters of the english alphabet, and the two symbols "-" and "'" (we may wish to define the terms "foreign word" and "1337 word" later.) -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 23:28:16 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC3yi-0000nF-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:28:16 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:39753) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC3ye-0004Wu-GQ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:28:12 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CC3yd-0002PO-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:28:11 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC3wU-0007uB-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:25:58 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal and Qurstion In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:08:10 BST." References: <41583BDB.9070907@mxtelecom.com> <415842B5.1060706@mxtelecom.com> From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 23:29:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:25:58 +0100 > > Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > >>Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>>Proposal: > > >>>---- > > >>>The Rule of Names > > >>> > > >>>The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player > > >>>may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of > > >>>more than half of the List of Voters will become the Name of the Game > > >>>and any other Name Proposals shall be dropped. > > >>> > > >> > > >>Nay - this doesn't preclude the name of the game changing at a later > > >>date. (One can propose more name proposals after the name is picked). > > > > > > > > > "Until a name is chosen"... > > > > > > > Hmmm. OK. What if two names both get more-than-half support? > > > OK, recognising that this version will never get passed; and all > that; a new Proposal... > For the avoidence of ambiguity; I claim here that I will never issue a Notice of Consent for it... :) J. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 23:28:17 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC3yj-0000nM-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:28:17 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:39747) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC3yg-0006cS-Un (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:28:14 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CC3yc-0002PO-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:28:10 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC3yL-0007vF-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:27:53 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Rule five. In-Reply-To: Your message of "27 Sep 2004 23:22:36 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 23:29:04 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:27:53 +0100 > > I propose the following rule: Rule five. > > Once the notice of consensus for this rule is issued, all rules with higher > numbers than this rule stand, but every fifth word (starting at the title > of the rule) is not considered to exist. This rule does not affect any > proposal under consideration at the time the notice of consensus is passed, > and any rule passed from one of these proposals is put into the ruleset > above this rule, the number of this rule being changed accordingly. > > I also wish the following term be added to the dictionary, (If there is any > confusion) > > Word: A word is any string of characters, including exclusively the > commonly recognised twenty-six letters of the english alphabet, and the two > symbols "-" and "'" (we may wish to define the terms "foreign word" and > "1337 word" later.) > I explicitly state my lack of consent to this, but I do not explicitly state that I will never state my consent to this. WC. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 23:38:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC48G-0001EN-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:38:08 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:40284) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC48C-00073R-JZ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:38:04 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CC48B-0003p6-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:38:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC489-00080X-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:38:01 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Threadsplit. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:01:36 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 23:39:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:38:00 +0100 > So, there are a number of different ways of interpreting the > gamestate; which I call 'threads'. I note for the case of disambiguation: Thread A is the model I was using when I posted the original NoC. Thread B is the model I was using when I posted the second NoC. Thread C is the model that I've had suggested to me by Garath, adam and 'dok. Thread D includes the "no implies this will never pass" model that I've observed being applied during gameplay. WC. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Mon Sep 27 23:40:59 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4B1-0001LN-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:40:59 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:55562) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4Ax-0006Qb-Fr (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:40:55 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4Ax-0005M2-Ev for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:40:55 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal and Qurstion X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <41583BDB.9070907@mxtelecom.com> <415842B5.1060706@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 23:41:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 27 Sep 2004 23:40:55 +0100 On Sep 27 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > The Rule of Names > > The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player > may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of > more than half of the List of Voters, and strictly more support than > every other name will become the Name of the Game and any other Name > Proposals shall be dropped. Aye to this as well. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Mon Sep 27 23:42:02 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4C2-0001Os-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:42:02 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:55664) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4Bw-00014U-LJ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:41:56 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4Bw-0005Tp-KX for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:41:56 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Rule five. X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 23:43:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 27 Sep 2004 23:41:56 +0100 On Sep 27 2004, David (Birch) wrote: > I propose the following rule: Rule five. > > Once the notice of consensus for this rule is issued, all rules with > higher numbers than this rule stand, but every fifth word (starting at > the title of the rule) is not considered to exist. This rule does not > affect any proposal under consideration at the time the notice of > consensus is passed, and any rule passed from one of these proposals is > put into the ruleset above this rule, the number of this rule being > changed accordingly. I feel this would be briefly amusing but would quickly get confusing and irritating, so I dissent. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Mon Sep 27 23:43:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4DC-0001Ua-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:43:14 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:55757) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4DA-0006lv-9A (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:43:12 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4DA-0005b5-8D for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:43:12 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Rule five. X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 23:44:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 27 Sep 2004 23:43:12 +0100 On Sep 27 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I explicitly state my lack of consent to this, but I do not explicitly > state that I will never state my consent to this. Even if you did, there's nothing to stop you going back on your word ... adam From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Mon Sep 27 23:52:28 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4M8-0001zI-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:52:28 +0100 Received: from bay24-f39.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.89]:2155 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4M5-0000fK-GT (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:52:25 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:48:00 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:47:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: [Nomic] (Re)Proposals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2004 22:48:00.0397 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A3523D0:01C4A4E4] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 23:53:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:47:53 +0100 Create a Rule as follows Dictionary Additions 1. Add the following definitions to the Dictionary, then remove this rule from the ruleset: C. = unit of Currency triangle = unit of distance on the Board The Grid = The Board MiniTrue = the Ministry post 'Minister of Truth' MiniFree = the Ministry post 'Minister of Freedom' Due to muppetry, I failed to give the following two names, so I'm re-proposing them with names, which theoretically requires new voting on them as well. Sociability Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the same are Friendly. Any player whose location is at least 4 triangles from all other players (under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. Prop: JJ ...I wandered expensively as a bird... 2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at any time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, informing the other players of this fact and their new location. Prop: JJ _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Mon Sep 27 23:54:53 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4OT-00025z-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:54:53 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:56804) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4OR-0000yM-7m (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:54:51 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4OR-0006hQ-6o for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:54:51 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Threadsplit. X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 27 23:55:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 27 Sep 2004 23:54:51 +0100 On Sep 27 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I'm borrowing terminology from Acka here; since we haven't invented > any. And we *really* need that judgement procedure, but I've heard people criticise the way I'd like it done. Might make another proposal for it anyway, since I'm down to only two outstanding, one of which I never intend to issue notice on anyway ;) > Thread A: > Assertion: > MEWO is incorrect, and his prior vote for an earlier version of the > proposal did count. We all seem to agree that this isn't the case, although I can't find the email where he did give consent to an alternate form of the rule at the moment. > Thread B: > Assertion: > MEWO was correct. However, his mail does not constitute explicitly > expressing a lack of consent. > Conclusions: > Wild Card's original NoC was incorrect; the subsequent one was > correct; the rules should include the rule of Lizardmen as Rule 12. This is the interpretation I'm currently leaning towards. I think it comes down to the interpretation of the word 'express'; if one understands it to mean something distinct from 'note the existence of', Martin has not expressed explicit lack of consent, he's merely pointed out that he didn't consent. > Thread C: > Assertion: > MEWO was correct. Also his mail constituted explicitly expressing > a lack of consent, but did not constitute explicitly stating that > he was opposed either. > Conclusions: > Wild Card's original NoC was incorrect; the subsequent one was > also incorrect; the rules should not include the rule of > Lizardmen; should MEWO later consent then Wild Card could > validly post an NoC for the Rule of Autoadoption. This is also a possibility, if you take the alternate interpretation of the Rule of Assumed Consent. > Thread D: > Assertion: > MEWO was correct. Also his mail constituted explicitly expressing > a lack of consent, in the process constituting opposition. > Conclusions: > Wild Card's original NoC was incorrect; the subsequent one was > also incorrect; the rules should not include the rule of > Lizardmen; The Rule of Lizardmen can't be adopted in it's current > form. I know Wild Card is aware of this, but I should point out for the sake of others watching that the rules do not recognise the existence of opposition to a rule. Saying "I absolutely swear that I will never ever vote for this rule" is not functionally different to saying "I'm not consenting to this for now, let's see what happens"; in either case, declaring consent for it at any later time is equivalent to voting in favour originally. I'd really like to hear Martin's opinions on the threadsplit. Anyone know when we can expect to hear from him again? adam From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 23:59:34 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4T0-0002Fa-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:59:34 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:41564) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4Sx-0000xp-HO (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:59:31 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CC4Sw-0006js-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:59:30 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4SG-0008Bv-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:58:48 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal -- It's easier than learning your ABC Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:00:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:58:48 +0100 It's easier than learning your ABC Every player shall number their proposals. Proposal numbers shall be of the form a.b; where a shall be the unique reference number of the player, and b shall be a positive integer chosen such that: a) a.b is unique b) b is strictly larger than every other b that that player has ever used for a proposal number. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 23:59:40 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4T6-0002Fr-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:59:40 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:41578) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4T1-0001gW-8G (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:59:35 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CC4T0-0006js-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:59:34 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4Nf-0008B3-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:54:03 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal -- Arbitration Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:00:08 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:54:03 +0100 Arbitration In the event of something having to be chosen arbitrarily then any person who has to harf that thing may make the choice by whatever means they deem appropriate. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Mon Sep 27 23:59:41 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4T7-0002G5-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:59:41 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:41571) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4T2-0003Zc-R0 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:59:36 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CC4Sy-0006js-00; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:59:32 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4OX-0008BL-00 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:54:57 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal -- Hanging Chad Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:00:12 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:54:57 +0100 Hanging Chad All players shall have unique, positive, integer, reference numbers. From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 00:10:35 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4df-0002m9-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:10:35 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:57912) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4dd-00055R-Hd (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:10:33 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4dd-0008SG-G9 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:10:33 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Rule five part 2 Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:11:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 00:10:33 +0100 > I propose the following rule to replace my earlier proposal: Rule five. Once the stupid notice of consensus for now this rule is issued eventually, new rules passed stand, providing, however, every fifth word (not including words in the email title) is considered not ignored, to exist if the Akanomic rule contains the word I "rule" in its title. Remember, This rule only applies blindly to itself and rules not containing higher numbers than three it. -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 00:15:24 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4iK-0002uV-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:15:24 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:58232) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4iI-0004G6-K5 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:15:22 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4iI-0000Up-Ir for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:15:22 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Hanging Chad X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:16:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 00:15:22 +0100 I disagree. If I took the reference number 7, someone other than you could make that their handle, meaning a reference to a player could be ambiguous. Also, it's boring. On Sep 28 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Hanging Chad > > All players shall have unique, positive, integer, reference numbers. > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 00:24:04 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4qh-0003Hh-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:24:03 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:58693) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4qd-0007nl-RS (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:23:59 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4qd-0001H6-Qb for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:23:59 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] (proposal) we need this Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:25:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 00:23:59 +0100 I would like to propose some more rules, since we're getting to the point where it would be really nice to be able to resolve disputes. Here are four separate new-rule proposals, since people might want to plug-and-play with parts of this: ---------- Clerk of the Vatican The Ministry shall contain a post called the Clerk of the Vatican. The duties of the Clerk of the Vatican shall include maintaining and making publically available a list of entities who are willing to judge disputes over the interpretation of the rules or gamestate. ---------- ---------- Judgement Procedure If a member of the List of Voters wishes to assert the validity of a claim which refers solely to the rules or gamestate, that entity make invoke the Judgement Procedure by publically claiming to be invoking the Judgement of the Pope and supplying the statement whose validity is under question. The invoking entity may also present an argument suporting the statement. ---------- ---------- White Smoke When an entity invokes the Judgement of the Pope, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to select an entity to act as Pope in the resolution of that claim. This selection shall be performed by uniform random selection from the set of all entities which: a) have informed the Clerk of the Vatican that they are willing to act as Pope, and not subsequently retracted that statement b) are not considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV c) are not the entity invoking the Judgement of the Pope If this set is empty, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to cause it to cease being so. ---------- ---------- Papal Edicts When the Judgement of the Pope has been invoked and the Clerk of the Vatican has selected an entity to act as Pope, the Pope may pass judgement on the claim. Legal judgements shall be: TRUE if the Pope believes the claim to be true with respect to all aspects of the current state of the game FALSE if the Pope believes the claim not to be true with respect to all aspects of the current state of the game Either TRUE or FALSE if the Pope believes the claim to be ambiguous with respect to all aspects of the current state of the game, depending on the Pope's beliefs about the original intent of the rules and the entities which have acted on the game, which interpretation makes more sense and which interpretation will lead to a more enjoyable game AN OFFENCE AGAINST GOD if the Pope believes that the invocation of judgement was not correctly made or that it would be otherwise inappropriate to pass judgement When the Pope rules a claim TRUE or FALSE, that ruling shall be used to determine future interpretations of the rules and gamestate. ---------- adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 00:32:53 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC4zF-0003ae-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:32:53 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:59129) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4zD-0000hX-GO (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:32:51 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC4zD-00021Z-FU for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:32:51 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Rule five part 2 X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:33:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 00:32:50 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, David (Birch) wrote: > > I propose the following rule to replace my earlier proposal: > > Rule five. > > Once the stupid notice of consensus for now this rule is issued > eventually, new rules passed stand, providing, however, every fifth word > (not including words in the email title) is considered not ignored, to > exist if the Akanomic rule contains the word I "rule" in its title. > Remember, This rule only applies blindly to itself and rules not > containing higher numbers than three it. Comprehending this is making my mind hurt. I see the intent, but is there not an awkward issue with the fact that this rule as it stands it a load of gobbledegook, which is only resolved if the rule is considered to apply to itself in the form obtained by applying it to itself? In other words, it's a reverse paradox. adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 00:37:39 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC53r-0003iB-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:37:39 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:51426) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC53o-0001qA-1e (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:37:36 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CC53l-0002qR-Gd for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:37:33 +0000 Message-ID: <4158A442.6080407@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Rule five. References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:38:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:37:38 +0100 David (Birch) wrote: > > I propose the following rule: Rule five. > > Once the notice of consensus for this rule is issued, all rules with > higher numbers than this rule stand, but every fifth word (starting at > the title of the rule) is not considered to exist. This rule does not > affect any proposal under consideration at the time the notice of > consensus is passed, and any rule passed from one of these proposals is > put into the ruleset above this rule, the number of this rule being > changed accordingly. > > I also wish the following term be added to the dictionary, (If there is > any confusion) > > Word: A word is any string of characters, including exclusively the > commonly recognised twenty-six letters of the english alphabet, and the > two symbols "-" and "'" (we may wish to define the terms "foreign word" > and "1337 word" later.) > I'm going to have a look through later to work out exactly what form of silly buggers he expects this to cause.... From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 00:39:45 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC55t-0003kk-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:39:45 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:59962) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC55r-00022n-Py (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:39:43 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC55r-0002bF-P6 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:39:43 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Rule five part 2 X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:40:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 00:39:43 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 28 2004, David (Birch) wrote: > > > Once the stupid notice of consensus for now this rule is issued > > eventually, new rules passed stand, providing, however, every fifth > > word (not including words in the email title) is considered not > > ignored, to exist if the Akanomic rule contains the word I "rule" in > > its title. Remember, This rule only applies blindly to itself and rules > > not containing higher numbers than three it. I'm also worried at the phrase "this rule only applies to itself and rules containing higher numbers then it" - does this mean that if we revise, say, Rule 1 to incidentally mention the number five, it's suddenly struck by this rule? adam From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Tue Sep 28 00:42:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC58I-0003p1-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:42:14 +0100 Received: from bay24-f29.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.79]:1365 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC58E-0002g8-5L (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:42:10 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:42:00 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:41:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] (proposal) we need this Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2004 23:42:00.0490 (UTC) FILETIME=[957418A0:01C4A4EB] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:43:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:41:38 +0100 yes, we really do. > >I would like to propose some more rules, since we're getting to the point >where it would be really nice to be able to resolve disputes. Here are four >separate new-rule proposals, since people might want to plug-and-play with >parts of this: > >---------- >Clerk of the Vatican > >The Ministry shall contain a post called the Clerk of the Vatican. The >duties of the Clerk of the Vatican shall include maintaining and making >publically available a list of entities who are willing to judge disputes >over the interpretation of the rules or gamestate. ---------- > Aye >---------- >Judgement Procedure > >If a member of the List of Voters wishes to assert the validity of a claim >which refers solely to the rules or gamestate, that entity make invoke the >Judgement Procedure by publically claiming to be invoking the Judgement of >the Pope and supplying the statement whose validity is under question. The >invoking entity may also present an argument suporting the statement. >---------- Couple of points on this one. I think 'rules and/or gamestate' is clearer than just or. Make is a typo for may, I presume. And I'm not sure whether all such disputes can plausibly be resolved into a single 'statement whose validity is under question'. So I'm voting Nay for the moment, but I look forward to the rule in general > >---------- >White Smoke > >When an entity invokes the Judgement of the Pope, it shall be the duty of >the Clerk of the Vatican to select an entity to act as Pope in the >resolution of that claim. This selection shall be performed by uniform >random selection from the set of all entities which: > a) have informed the Clerk of the Vatican that they are willing to act as >Pope, and not subsequently retracted that statement > b) are not considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV > c) are not the entity invoking the Judgement of the Pope. If this set is >empty, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to cause it to >cease being so. ---------- Aye, although I'd prefer more definition in how and when the Clerk is to cause it to cease being so, and preferably what happens if they don't. > >---------- >Papal Edicts > >When the Judgement of the Pope has been invoked and the Clerk of the >Vatican has selected an entity to act as Pope, the Pope may pass judgement >on the claim. > >Legal judgements shall be: >TRUE if the Pope believes the claim to be true with respect to all aspects >of the current state of the game >FALSE if the Pope believes the claim not to be true with respect to all >aspects of the current state of the game >Either TRUE or FALSE if the Pope believes the claim to be ambiguous with >respect to all aspects of the current state of the game, depending on the >Pope's beliefs about the original intent of the rules and the entities >which have acted on the game, which interpretation makes more sense and >which interpretation will lead to a more enjoyable game >AN OFFENCE AGAINST GOD if the Pope believes that the invocation of >judgement was not correctly made or that it would be otherwise >inappropriate to pass judgement > >When the Pope rules a claim TRUE or FALSE, that ruling shall be used to >determine future interpretations of the rules and gamestate. ---------- Aye. It might also be worth recording judgements made in a publicly viewable place, therefore, what do you think? JJ > >adam > >_______________________________________________ >Nomic-talk mailing list >Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 00:43:10 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC59C-0003qX-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:43:10 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:57913) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC598-00001u-J9 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:43:06 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CC597-00054G-B8 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:43:05 +0000 Message-ID: <4158A58F.9030009@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) References: <41573DBB.7010202@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:44:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:43:11 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 26 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > >> David (Birch) wrote: >> > Change your vote to "no" - it doesn't retcart the proposal, but it > >> means it can't be passed. (Oh, if I voted yes on that, which I don't > >> think I did, I change it to no.) >> >> This is certainly true for anyone except the proposer. For the >> proposer himself, I'm not so sure > > > Nup. The proposer technically has no say on eir own proposal, but since > e is the only one who can issue a Notice of Consensus on it, e actually > has the ability to prevent it passing anyway. However, for anyone else, > there is *no* way to retract your vote. Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion > simply says you have to obtain consent from each voting entity. It says > nothing about this consent being invalidated by later retractions. (I > note that this is another point in which your interpretation of the > rules in implementing the AutoNomic appears to differ from what they > actually say.) As I understand it, and I believe someone else suggested this on IRC, the phrase "obtains unambiguous consent" gives leway since by posting "I consent" and then "I do not consent", unambiguous consent has not been obtained. However I also see your interpretation as a valid one. Possibly this should be clarified. Stuart From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 00:43:37 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC59d-0003r0-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:43:37 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:60197) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC59a-00008p-7G (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:43:34 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC59a-0002t6-6N for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:43:34 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Hanging Chad X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:44:04 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 00:43:34 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Hanging Chad > > All players shall have unique, positive, integer, reference numbers. Consent, but I point out that this rule doesn't actually allow said numbers to be assigned, it only dictates what they can be ... adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 00:44:32 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5AW-0003tl-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:44:32 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:60226) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5AS-0000HX-KI (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:44:28 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5AS-0002wx-JP for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:44:28 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] (Re)Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:45:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 00:44:28 +0100 On Sep 27 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: Dictionary Additions 1 Sociability ...I wandered expensively as a bird... Aye to all three. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 00:46:17 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5CD-0003wa-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:46:17 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:60306) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5CB-0002Fr-DA (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:46:15 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5CB-00035S-CF for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:46:15 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- It's easier than learning your ABC X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:47:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 00:46:15 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > It's easier than learning your ABC > > Every player shall number their proposals. Proposal numbers shall be > of the form a.b; where a shall be the unique reference number of the > player, and b shall be a positive integer chosen such that: > > a) a.b is unique > b) b is strictly larger than every other b that that player has ever > used for a proposal number. Objection - you haven't said what happens if players don't number their proposals. If the intention is "they don't count", then this rule conflicts with Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion, which claims that they do count, and you probably need to explicitly override it. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 00:47:10 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5D4-0003zH-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:47:10 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:60342) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5D0-0000mZ-P9 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:47:06 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5D0-00039j-O6 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:47:06 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Arbitration X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:48:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 00:47:06 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > In the event of something having to be chosen arbitrarily then any > person who has to harf that thing may make the choice by whatever > means they deem appropriate. I dissent, since the word 'harf' has enough unrelated meanings that I'm not actually certain what this rule intends. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 00:53:25 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5J7-00048E-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:53:25 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:60481) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5J3-0001iB-LD (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:53:21 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5J3-0003Y7-KK for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:53:21 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: RE: [Nomic] (proposal) we need this X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:54:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 00:53:21 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >Judgement Procedure > > > > If a member of the List of Voters wishes to assert the validity of a > > claim which refers solely to the rules or gamestate, that entity make > > invoke the Judgement Procedure by publically claiming to be invoking > > the Judgement of the Pope and supplying the statement whose validity is > > under question. The invoking entity may also present an argument > > suporting the statement. ---------- > > Couple of points on this one. I think 'rules and/or gamestate' is > clearer than just or. Make is a typo for may, I presume. And I'm not sure > whether all such disputes can plausibly be resolved into a single > 'statement whose validity is under question'. So I'm voting Nay for the > moment, but I look forward to the rule in general Can you give an example of a dispute which can't be sensibly resolved into a statement whose validity is under question, but could be sensibly resolved using this procedure if this requirement were rephrased? I'm not asserting that such statements don't exist, I'm just wondering how you'd like to see them accommodated. > >White Smoke > > > > When an entity invokes the Judgement of the Pope, it shall be the duty > > of the Clerk of the Vatican to select an entity to act as Pope in the > > resolution of that claim. This selection shall be performed by uniform > > random selection from the set of all entities which: > > a) have informed the Clerk of the Vatican that they are willing to > > act as Pope, and not subsequently retracted that statement > > b) are not considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV > > c) are not the entity invoking the Judgement of the Pope. If this set > > is empty, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to cause it > > to cease being so. ---------- > > Aye, although I'd prefer more definition in how and when the Clerk is to > cause it to cease being so, and preferably what happens if they don't. The definition of 'duty' in the rules is 'is encouraged to do that thing'. I believe all the rules in this proposal group continue to be well-behaved if someone fails to perform their duty, although obviously it will piss people off. There should possibly be some sort of disincentive for neglecting one's duty added at some point. > It might also be worth recording judgements made in a publicly viewable > place, therefore, what do you think? Quite so. Adding it to the Clerk of the Vatican's mandate seems the obvious solution. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 00:54:17 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5Jx-0004A5-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:54:17 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:60514) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5Js-0003Pw-Vk (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:54:12 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5Js-0003bm-Uq for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:54:12 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals (Creation of the Ministry) X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: <4158A58F.9030009@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <41573DBB.7010202@cam.ac.uk> <4158A58F.9030009@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 00:55:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 00:54:12 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > However I also see your interpretation as a valid one. > Possibly this should be clarified. Yes! Destroy rule 4! adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 01:08:31 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5Xj-0004g5-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:08:31 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:45730) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5Xf-0006j9-I7 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:08:27 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CC5Xf-0002YC-0i for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:08:27 +0000 Message-ID: <4158AB81.1090105@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] (proposal) we need this References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 01:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:08:33 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > I would like to propose some more rules, since we're getting to the > point where it would be really nice to be able to resolve disputes. Here > are four separate new-rule proposals, since people might want to > plug-and-play with parts of this: > > ---------- > Clerk of the Vatican > > The Ministry shall contain a post called the Clerk of the Vatican. The > duties of the Clerk of the Vatican shall include maintaining and making > publically available a list of entities who are willing to judge > disputes over the interpretation of the rules or gamestate. ---------- > > ---------- > Judgement Procedure > > If a member of the List of Voters wishes to assert the validity of a > claim which refers solely to the rules or gamestate, that entity make > invoke the Judgement Procedure by publically claiming to be invoking the > Judgement of the Pope and supplying the statement whose validity is > under question. The invoking entity may also present an argument > suporting the statement. ---------- > > ---------- > White Smoke > > When an entity invokes the Judgement of the Pope, it shall be the duty > of the Clerk of the Vatican to select an entity to act as Pope in the > resolution of that claim. This selection shall be performed by uniform > random selection from the set of all entities which: > a) have informed the Clerk of the Vatican that they are willing to act > as Pope, and not subsequently retracted that statement > b) are not considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV > c) are not the entity invoking the Judgement of the Pope If this set is > empty, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to cause it to > cease being so. ---------- > a) allows me to say I'm willing to act as pope, then retract, but not to then say I'm willing again. I'm generally happy with the concept, but being picky is what the game is about > ---------- > Papal Edicts > > When the Judgement of the Pope has been invoked and the Clerk of the > Vatican has selected an entity to act as Pope, the Pope may pass > judgement on the claim. > > Legal judgements shall be: > TRUE if the Pope believes the claim to be true with respect to all > aspects of the current state of the game > FALSE if the Pope believes the claim not to be true with respect to all > aspects of the current state of the game > Either TRUE or FALSE if the Pope believes the claim to be ambiguous with > respect to all aspects of the current state of the game, depending on > the Pope's beliefs about the original intent of the rules and the > entities which have acted on the game, which interpretation makes more > sense and which interpretation will lead to a more enjoyable game > AN OFFENCE AGAINST GOD if the Pope believes that the invocation of > judgement was not correctly made or that it would be otherwise > inappropriate to pass judgement > > When the Pope rules a claim TRUE or FALSE, that ruling shall be used to > determine future interpretations of the rules and gamestate. ---------- > > adam > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 01:17:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5g7-0004yZ-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:17:11 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:33257) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5g4-0005T3-V9 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:17:08 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5g4-0005F3-UI for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:17:08 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Rule five part 2 X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 01:18:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 01:17:08 +0100 Append this to the rule to fix that error: "this affects itself immediately under the interpretation it suddenly takes after every fifth written word, is removed." On Sep 28 2004, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 28 2004, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > > On Sep 28 2004, David (Birch) wrote: > > > > > Once the stupid notice of consensus for now this rule is issued > > > eventually, new rules passed stand, providing, however, every fifth > > > word (not including words in the email title) is considered not > > > ignored, to exist if the Akanomic rule contains the word I "rule" in > > > its title. Remember, This rule only applies blindly to itself and > > > rules not containing higher numbers than three it. > > I'm also worried at the phrase "this rule only applies to itself and > rules containing higher numbers then it" - does this mean that if we > revise, say, Rule 1 to incidentally mention the number five, it's > suddenly struck by this rule? > > adam > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Tue Sep 28 01:20:15 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5j5-00054u-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:20:15 +0100 Received: from bay24-f9.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.59]:1918 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5j1-0008M0-FT (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:20:11 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:20:06 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:19:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- Hanging Chad Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2004 00:20:06.0533 (UTC) FILETIME=[E80A9350:01C4A4F0] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 01:21:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:19:50 +0100 > >On Sep 28 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > >>Hanging Chad >> >>All players shall have unique, positive, integer, reference numbers. > >Consent, but I point out that this rule doesn't actually allow said numbers >to be assigned, it only dictates what they can be ... Aye on both counts :) JJ > >adam > >_______________________________________________ >Nomic-talk mailing list >Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 01:20:43 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5jX-00055e-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:20:43 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:33391) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5jS-00002f-Cy (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:20:38 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5jS-0005TZ-C0 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:20:38 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Rule five part 2 X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 01:21:04 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 01:20:38 +0100 Well, I could argue that no earlier rules contain large numbers, so we could just not revise them in that way. However, If you're still bothered by it, I'll revise that into the wording after collating objections. I'd quite like to pass this. it's fun to play with. On Sep 28 2004, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 28 2004, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > > On Sep 28 2004, David (Birch) wrote: > > > > > Once the stupid notice of consensus for now this rule is issued > > > eventually, new rules passed stand, providing, however, every fifth > > > word (not including words in the email title) is considered not > > > ignored, to exist if the Akanomic rule contains the word I "rule" in > > > its title. Remember, This rule only applies blindly to itself and > > > rules not containing higher numbers than three it. > > I'm also worried at the phrase "this rule only applies to itself and > rules containing higher numbers then it" - does this mean that if we > revise, say, Rule 1 to incidentally mention the number five, it's > suddenly struck by this rule? > > adam > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 01:22:09 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5kv-00059Z-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:22:09 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:33444) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5ks-0007M1-Jj (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:22:06 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5ks-0005az-Ip for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:22:06 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] (proposal) we need this X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: <4158AB81.1090105@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <4158AB81.1090105@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 01:23:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 01:22:06 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > > a) have informed the Clerk of the Vatican that they are willing to act > > as Pope, and not subsequently retracted that statement > > a) allows me to say I'm willing to act as pope, then retract, but not to > then say I'm willing again. I'm generally happy with the concept, but > being picky is what the game is about I'd say that this is ambiguous at best (it depends on whether you bind the statement of willingness inside or outside the existential quantifier), but I can rephrase it if you like. I'll issue an alternative proposed phrasing for this rule once I see whether anyone else has objections. Any opinions on the other three proposed rules in that email? adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 01:24:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5n0-0005EL-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:24:18 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:33516) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5my-0000a1-CS (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:24:16 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CC5my-0005jZ-BZ for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:24:16 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Rule five part 2 X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.172.132] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 01:25:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 01:24:16 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, David (Birch) wrote: > Well, I could argue that no earlier rules contain large numbers, so we > could just not revise them in that way. However, If you're still bothered > by it, I'll revise that into the wording after collating objections. I'd > quite like to pass this. it's fun to play with. If you're revising it, you could just making the numbering condition apply specifically to the rule number rather than any number contained in the rule. adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 01:53:55 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC6Ff-0006Kh-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:53:55 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:48803) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC6FY-0006PZ-JD (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:53:48 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CC6FY-0005zR-0r for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:53:48 +0000 Message-ID: <4158B622.60307@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal: It's broke, so lets fix it. Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 01:54:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:53:54 +0100 Following some discussion on IRC, the general consensus was we have some holes that need patching. Proposal to reword the Rule of Assumed Consent Change the text of "The Rule of Assumed Consent" to read: A member of the list of voters shall be considered to have given their consent to a proposal if the following are true: - The proposal was suggested more then 72 hours ago - The member has not explicitly voted against the proposal Proposal to ensure everything is on the email list: Create the rule: Public Records If a member of the list of voters wishes a view expressed by them to have an effect on the game, it must be recorded by sending an email to the email list. The view shall be considered to have been expressed at the time the email was sent, as recorded by the email list archives. If a view has not been expressed in this manner, it may be ignored by members of the list of voters at their leisure. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Tue Sep 28 02:01:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC6Me-0006d9-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:01:08 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:48323) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC6Ma-00063e-55 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:01:04 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CC6MZ-0002wv-00; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:01:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5Nv-0000JH-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:58:23 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal -- No more ambiguity! Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 02:02:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:58:22 +0100 Change every instance of the word "unambiguous" in the rules to "explicit". From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Tue Sep 28 02:01:09 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC6Mf-0006dH-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:01:09 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:48336) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC6Md-000303-9D (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:01:07 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CC6Mc-0002wv-00; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:01:06 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5Ka-0000IA-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:54:56 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] (proposal) we need this In-Reply-To: Your message of "28 Sep 2004 00:23:59 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 02:02:04 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:54:55 +0100 > Clerk of the Vatican > Judgement Procedure > White Smoke > Papal Edicts I unambiguously consent to these. WC. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Tue Sep 28 02:01:17 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC6Mn-0006dW-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:01:17 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:48328) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC6Mf-0006py-N7 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:01:09 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CC6Ma-0002wv-00; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:01:04 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC5de-0000PJ-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:14:38 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Attempted scam... Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 02:02:06 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:14:38 +0100 I note that Rule Three fails to actually state that the list it requires is the List of Voters; indeed looking at the web page, since it contains a pseudonym it appears to be the List of Handles. Hence, no thing currently exists called the List of Voters. Also, Rule 1 fails to define what an entity is. Therefore I assert that a List of Voters is not an entity, so rule 1 does not apply. I create a List of Voters with my own name on it. I propose the following proposal: ---- Dictatorship The List of Voters is a game entity which names Jonathan Amery, and only Jonathan Amery. This rule overrides Rule 3, List of Voters; Rule 1, Existence of the Game and Rule 5, Rule of Handles. ---- Since I'm the only person named on the List of Voters; I have described the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters; and each such entity has given unambiguous consent. This mail is also a purple coloured Notice of Consent for the above proposal, which becomes part of the rules. WC. From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 02:06:44 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC6S4-0006rf-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:06:44 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:60257) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC6S0-0006UL-Py (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:06:40 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CC6S0-0001QB-Bg for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:06:40 +0000 Message-ID: <4158B927.7070105@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Attempted scam... References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 02:07:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:06:47 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I note that Rule Three fails to actually state that the list it > requires is the List of Voters; indeed looking at the web page, since > it contains a pseudonym it appears to be the List of Handles. > > Hence, no thing currently exists called the List of Voters. > > Also, Rule 1 fails to define what an entity is. > > Therefore I assert that a List of Voters is not an entity, so rule 1 > does not apply. I disagree with this assertion, but I think it's the only hole in the argument... Stuart From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 02:09:37 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC6Uq-0006yi-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:09:36 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:35069) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC6Uo-0004se-0l (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:09:34 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CC6Un-0002SM-Ep for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:09:33 +0000 Message-ID: <4158B9D4.9040606@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money: Summary (3) References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 02:10:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:09:40 +0100 Updated Summary: We're waiting for Dave and Carrie, since the rule of Assumed Consent appears to be functionally equivalent to hitting the game with a dodo. Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" (Version 2, see 18:39 25/09) For: Stuart, JJ, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary, Martin Lester, Mike, Adam Against: No comment: David, , Carrie, Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" For: Stuart, Carrie, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary, Martin Lester, Mike, Adam Against: No comment: David, Reserving Judgement: , JJ Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" For: Stuart, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary, Martin Lester Against: Carrie, Mike, JJ, Adam No comment: David, Reserving Judgement: "Who's the banker in the black?" For: Stuart, JJ, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary, Martin Lester, Mike, Adam Against: No Comment: David, , Carrie, , _______________________________________________ Nomic-talk mailing list Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Tue Sep 28 02:30:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CC6oo-0007ct-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:30:14 +0100 Received: from bay24-f39.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.89]:3410 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CC6oj-0001TM-JJ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:30:09 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:30:02 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:29:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] Attempted scam... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2004 01:30:02.0695 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD261570:01C4A4FA] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 02:31:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:29:50 +0100 > > I note that Rule Three fails to actually state that the list it >requires is the List of Voters; indeed looking at the web page, since >it contains a pseudonym it appears to be the List of Handles. This is true, and should be fixed ASAP. > > Hence, no thing currently exists called the List of Voters. This is also not true, as it was created by the initial state of the game. Just because that section of the rule has now been removed doesn't mean its effects have. > > Also, Rule 1 fails to define what an entity is. That, however, is complete bollocks, since the English language defines what an entity is. How, please, do you think it might be defined such that the List of Voters is not an entity? > > Therefore I assert that a List of Voters is not an entity, so rule 1 >does not apply. > > I create a List of Voters with my own name on it. What allows you to do this, even without the above objections? > > I propose the following proposal: > >---- >Dictatorship > >The List of Voters is a game entity which names Jonathan Amery, and >only Jonathan Amery. > >This rule overrides Rule 3, List of Voters; Rule 1, Existence of the >Game and Rule 5, Rule of Handles. >---- > > Since I'm the only person named on the List of Voters; I have >described the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters; >and each such entity has given unambiguous consent. > >This mail is also a purple coloured Notice of Consent for the above >proposal, which becomes part of the rules. > > WC. > >_______________________________________________ >Nomic-talk mailing list >Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Tue Sep 28 08:08:09 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCC5p-0006fP-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:08:09 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:40532) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCC5n-0008HB-9K (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:08:07 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CCC5l-0004so-00; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:08:06 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCC3q-0002a0-00; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:06:06 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org cc: jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Attempted scam... In-Reply-To: Message from "John-Joseph Wilks" of "Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:29:50 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 08:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:06:06 +0100 > That, however, is complete bollocks, since the English language defines what > an entity is. How, please, do you think it might be defined such that the > List of Voters is not an entity? "Something that has a real existence", "What exists" -- OED. > > Therefore I assert that a List of Voters is not an entity, so rule 1 > >does not apply. > > > > I create a List of Voters with my own name on it. > > What allows you to do this, even without the above objections? Nothing restricts me in any way from doing so, since (by my argument) the LoV isn't an entity existing within the game (and anyway, I'm creating it; not changing it). Incidently, I agree that this is a pile of nitpicking arguments; but it's no more nitpicking than people who argue that the Rule of Assumed Consent doesn't work properly... WC. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Tue Sep 28 08:08:27 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCC67-0006fm-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:08:27 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:40519) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCC5k-0008Uk-Sx (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:08:04 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CCC5j-0004so-00; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:08:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCC0O-0002Y7-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:02:32 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Attempted scam... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:06:47 BST." <4158B927.7070105@cam.ac.uk> References: <4158B927.7070105@cam.ac.uk> From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 08:09:05 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:02:32 +0100 > Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > I note that Rule Three fails to actually state that the list it > > requires is the List of Voters; indeed looking at the web page, since > > it contains a pseudonym it appears to be the List of Handles. > > > > Hence, no thing currently exists called the List of Voters. > > > > Also, Rule 1 fails to define what an entity is. > > > > Therefore I assert that a List of Voters is not an entity, so rule 1 > > does not apply. > > I disagree with this assertion, but I think it's the only hole in the > argument... > I think there're lots of holes in the argument; but I agree that's the one where I had to stretch hardest... Hmm; looking at my copy of the oed; there's a definite argument in English that something that doesn't exist can't be an entity, but I don't think I'll pursue that. WC. From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Tue Sep 28 09:52:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCDic-0002HF-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:52:18 +0100 Received: from bay24-f27.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.77]:4171 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCDiS-0004ng-55 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:52:08 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:52:01 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:51:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Attempted scam... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2004 08:52:01.0551 (UTC) FILETIME=[6B9E61F0:01C4A538] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 09:53:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:51:28 +0100 > > > That, however, is complete bollocks, since the English language defines >what > > an entity is. How, please, do you think it might be defined such that >the > > List of Voters is not an entity? > > "Something that has a real existence", "What exists" -- OED. > > > > > Therefore I assert that a List of Voters is not an entity, so rule 1 > > >does not apply. > > > > > > I create a List of Voters with my own name on it. > > > > What allows you to do this, even without the above objections? > > Nothing restricts me in any way from doing so, since (by my argument) >the LoV isn't an entity existing within the game (and anyway, I'm >creating it; not changing it). However, the rules are descriptive, not proscriptive. They don't tell you what you can't do, they tell you what happens when you do do something you can do. And they don't say you *can* do this. Therefore while you can claim that, it has no meaning within the game. JJ > > Incidently, I agree that this is a pile of nitpicking arguments; but >it's no more nitpicking than people who argue that the Rule of Assumed >Consent doesn't work properly... > > WC. > >_______________________________________________ >Nomic-talk mailing list >Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 12:04:59 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCFn1-0008W4-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:04:59 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:34133) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCFmy-0000a1-NW (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:04:56 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCFmy-0000RZ-MJ for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:04:56 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Attempted scam... X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.163.196] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 12:05:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 12:04:56 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I note that Rule Three fails to actually state that the list it > requires is the List of Voters; indeed looking at the web page, since > it contains a pseudonym it appears to be the List of Handles. I don't think you can argue anything from the appearance of the web page, especially since the web page claims quite unambiguously (although possibly erroneously) that the list given is the List of Voters. Also, the rule describing the List of Handles clearly states that the first element in each pair is an entry in the List of Voters; therefore, if you assert that this list *is* the List of Handles, your argument that there is no List of Voters cannot possibly be true. > Hence, no thing currently exists called the List of Voters. This is a plausible interpretation of the rules. > Also, Rule 1 fails to define what an entity is. True. Since I believe the rest of the rules use 'entity' exclusively to refer to extranomic entities, I submit that the phrasing of Rule 1 should be changed. > Therefore I assert that a List of Voters is not an entity, so rule 1 > does not apply. However, I believe that the phrase "and all entities existing within it" is actually just a clarification, and the effect of the rule would be unchanged if the rule said 'the game has a persistent state which can only change as described by the rules'. Either your declaration that you've created a new List of Voters doesn't intend to change the state of the game or it does; if it doesn't, fine, it doesn't do anything, and if it does, it's prohibited by Rule 1. Therefore, Wild Card's attempted coup fails. However, he has raised the point that there is not currently a definition of what the List of Voters is. I see two possibilities: 1) We accept that the fact that Rule 3 is titled 'List of Voters' implies that the list described therein is the List of Voters, and carry on as normal. 2) We declare that there is no List of Voters. In this case, the rules provide no way for one to be created, and since any change to the game requires the existence of an entity on the List of Voters to make a proposal, the game is irreparably broken and must be abandoned. I'm in favour of taking the first option and fixing the phrasing of Rules 1 and 3 ASAP. Anyone with me? adam From mikec@mxtelecom.com Tue Sep 28 12:08:17 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCFqD-0000H5-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:08:17 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:36382 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCFpz-0006T1-AG (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:08:03 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CCFps-0002fR-Ao for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:07:56 +0100 Message-ID: <415945F8.4010301@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Attempted scam... References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 12:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:07:36 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 28 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > >> I note that Rule Three fails to actually state that the list it >> requires is the List of Voters; indeed looking at the web page, since >> it contains a pseudonym it appears to be the List of Handles. > > > I don't think you can argue anything from the appearance of the web > page, especially since the web page claims quite unambiguously (although > possibly erroneously) that the list given is the List of Voters. Also, > the rule describing the List of Handles clearly states that the first > element in each pair is an entry in the List of Voters; therefore, if > you assert that this list *is* the List of Handles, your argument that > there is no List of Voters cannot possibly be true. > >> Hence, no thing currently exists called the List of Voters. > > > This is a plausible interpretation of the rules. > >> Also, Rule 1 fails to define what an entity is. > > > True. Since I believe the rest of the rules use 'entity' exclusively to > refer to extranomic entities, I submit that the phrasing of Rule 1 > should be changed. > >> Therefore I assert that a List of Voters is not an entity, so rule 1 >> does not apply. > > > However, I believe that the phrase "and all entities existing within it" > is actually just a clarification, and the effect of the rule would be > unchanged if the rule said 'the game has a persistent state which can > only change as described by the rules'. Either your declaration that > you've created a new List of Voters doesn't intend to change the state > of the game or it does; if it doesn't, fine, it doesn't do anything, and > if it does, it's prohibited by Rule 1. > > Therefore, Wild Card's attempted coup fails. However, he has raised the > point that there is not currently a definition of what the List of > Voters is. I see two possibilities: > > 1) We accept that the fact that Rule 3 is titled 'List of Voters' > implies that the list described therein is the List of Voters, and carry > on as normal. > > 2) We declare that there is no List of Voters. In this case, the rules > provide no way for one to be created, and since any change to the game > requires the existence of an entity on the List of Voters to make a > proposal, the game is irreparably broken and must be abandoned. > In favour of the second, and we restart with a slightly more far-reaching and better defined initial ruleset. Mike From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 12:13:13 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCFuy-0000Rp-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:13:12 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:36414) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCFut-0002Fg-KA (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:13:07 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCFut-0002My-JB for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:13:07 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: It's broke, so lets fix it. X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.163.196] In-Reply-To: <4158B622.60307@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <4158B622.60307@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 12:14:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 12:13:07 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Following some discussion on IRC, the general consensus was we have some > holes that need patching. > > Proposal to reword the Rule of Assumed Consent > > Change the text of "The Rule of Assumed Consent" to read: > > A member of the list of voters shall be considered to have given > their consent to a proposal if the following are true: > - The proposal was suggested more then 72 hours ago > - The member has not explicitly voted against the proposal I object to this proposal for now. There seems to be some suggestion that voting against a proposal followed by giving consent to it is not 'unambiguous' and therefore that a vote against a proposal cannot later be changed to a vote in favour. Since this rule uses the phrase 'voted against' (which I think is a little dodgy anyway, given that there's no definition of voting), this would currently make it impossible to prolong discussion on a proposal without shooting it down entirely, so I will not give consent until the proposal to replace 'unambiguous' with 'explicit' is passed. > Create the rule: Public Records I consent. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 12:15:41 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCFxN-0000Y7-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:15:41 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:37094) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCFxK-000286-Q6 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:15:38 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCFxK-0002uR-P9 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:15:38 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal -- No more ambiguity! X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.163.196] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 12:16:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 12:15:38 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Change every instance of the word "unambiguous" in the rules to > "explicit". I hereby issue my consent. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 12:18:22 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCFzy-0000kI-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:18:22 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:37717) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCFzt-0004WM-KW (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:18:17 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCFzt-0003Tv-JZ for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:18:17 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money: Summary (3) X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.163.196] In-Reply-To: <4158B9D4.9040606@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <4158B9D4.9040606@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 12:19:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 12:18:17 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Updated Summary: We're waiting for Dave and Carrie, since the rule of > Assumed Consent appears to be functionally equivalent to hitting the > game with a dodo. I'm not sure that it's *quite* as useless as you suggest, but withholding notice of consensus is of course your prerogative anyway. adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 12:20:13 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCG1l-0000qf-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:20:13 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:36270) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCG1g-0003M4-Hp (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:20:08 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CCG1d-0006Si-0U for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:20:05 +0000 Message-ID: <415948EC.4000007@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Attempted scam... References: <415945F8.4010301@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: <415945F8.4010301@mxtelecom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 12:21:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:20:12 +0100 Mike Cripps wrote: > Adam Biltcliffe wrote: >> >> 1) We accept that the fact that Rule 3 is titled 'List of Voters' >> implies that the list described therein is the List of Voters, and >> carry on as normal. >> >> 2) We declare that there is no List of Voters. In this case, the rules >> provide no way for one to be created, and since any change to the game >> requires the existence of an entity on the List of Voters to make a >> proposal, the game is irreparably broken and must be abandoned. >> > In favour of the second, and we restart with a slightly more > far-reaching and better defined initial ruleset. > As tempting as it is to say "this would be better fixed if we started over" to a variety of problems, I'd prefer us to try to fix the existing rules. Surely part of the point of the game is to try to plug holes like this and create even bigger ones accidentally. Reminds me a bit of one of the societies I was in-unfortunately their membership was so low that they couldn't have quorate in meetings so couldn't change their committee, but they only realised this 3 years after it had got to this stage, so they had no idea who was technically the current committee. They just ignored the problem and rewrote the constitution. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Tue Sep 28 17:01:12 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCKPg-0006hB-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:01:12 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:57707) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCKPb-0002ms-JL (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:01:07 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CCKPX-0005MA-00; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:01:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCKIU-0005pc-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:53:46 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Attempted scam... In-Reply-To: Message from Adam Biltcliffe of "28 Sep 2004 12:04:56 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 17:02:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:53:46 +0100 > On Sep 28 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > > I note that Rule Three fails to actually state that the list it > > requires is the List of Voters; indeed looking at the web page, since > > it contains a pseudonym it appears to be the List of Handles. > > I don't think you can argue anything from the appearance of the web page, > especially since the web page claims quite unambiguously (although possibly > erroneously) that the list given is the List of Voters. Also, the rule > describing the List of Handles clearly states that the first element in > each pair is an entry in the List of Voters; therefore, if you assert that > this list *is* the List of Handles, your argument that there is no List of > Voters cannot possibly be true. I did only say "appears to be" :). > I'm in favour of taking the first option and fixing the phrasing of Rules 1 > and 3 ASAP. Anyone with me? > The first option sounds plausible. WC. From happycarrie@gmail.com Tue Sep 28 17:08:49 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCKX3-00078R-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:08:49 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.203]:47824 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCKWy-00065N-ES (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:08:44 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v18so3467451rnb for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.1.72 with SMTP id 72mr123633rna; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.17 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal and Qurstion In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <41583BDB.9070907@mxtelecom.com> <415842B5.1060706@mxtelecom.com> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 17:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:08:37 +0100 On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:08:10 +0100, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > >>Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>>Proposal: > > >>>---- > > >>>The Rule of Names > > >>> > > >>>The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player > > >>>may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of > > >>>more than half of the List of Voters will become the Name of the Game > > >>>and any other Name Proposals shall be dropped. > > >>> > > >> > > >>Nay - this doesn't preclude the name of the game changing at a later > > >>date. (One can propose more name proposals after the name is picked). > > > > > > > > > "Until a name is chosen"... > > > > > > > Hmmm. OK. What if two names both get more-than-half support? > > > OK, recognising that this version will never get passed; and all > that; a new Proposal... > > Proposal: > ---- > The Rule of Names > > The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player > may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of > more than half of the List of Voters, and strictly more support than > every other name will become the Name of the Game and any other Name > > > Proposals shall be dropped. Nay > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 17:41:30 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCL2g-0000FG-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:41:30 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:33037) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCL2S-0007pC-To (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:41:16 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCL2S-000078-Sr for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:41:16 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal and Qurstion X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.165.203] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 17:42:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 17:41:16 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, Carrie Oliver wrote: > On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:08:10 +0100, Jonathan David Amery > wrote: > > > Proposal: > > ---- > > The Rule of Names > > > > The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player > > may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of > > more than half of the List of Voters, and strictly more support than > > every other name will become the Name of the Game and any other Name > > Proposals shall be dropped. > > Nay Why not? adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 17:56:37 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCLHJ-0000tv-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:56:37 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:36366) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCLHH-0002rz-40 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:56:35 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCLHH-00031z-2z for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:56:35 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.165.203] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] bugfix Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 17:57:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 17:56:35 +0100 A proposal to fix the issues identified by Wild Card with respect to Rule 1, Existence of the Game and Rule 3, List of Voters. ---------- Enact the following rule: The Rule That Won't Exist For Long This rule overrides Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules. If ever this rule is in force, the following definitions shall be added to the Definitions Dictionary: ENTITY - Anything having existence in the real (extranomic) world. RESON - Any construction of the game which has existence in the gameworld defined by the rules. THINGY - synonymous with RESON The following changes shall then be applied to the rules: All occurrences of the word 'entity' in Rule 1, Existence of the Game shall be replaced with 'reson'. The sentence 'This list shall be known as the List of Voters' shall be appended to Rule 3, List of Voters. The Rule That Won't Exist For Long shall be deleted from the rules. ---------- adam From mikec@mxtelecom.com Tue Sep 28 18:24:40 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCLiS-0002Ki-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:24:40 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:41788 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCLiA-0006ZA-9a (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:24:22 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CCLi2-0008LX-CD for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:24:14 +0100 Message-ID: <41599E25.8080109@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Votes Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 18:25:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:23:49 +0100 I hereby expressly vote against all outstanding proposals unless either of the following is true: (a) I have already voted in favour of the most recent version of the proposal (b) I expressly vote in favour of a proposal in an email I send at a later time than I send this one. I also propose the following: ---- You say Tomato and I say Tomato There shall be a "Minister for Clarity" who shall be in charge of vetting all words proposed for submission to the dictionary. The Minister of Clarity shall be responsible for keeping the dictionary up to date, and may define the exact process for adding words to the dictionary. However, the Minister for Clarity shall not be permitted to propose any word for addition to the dictionary (to prevent abuse). ---- Mike From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Tue Sep 28 18:31:40 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCLpE-0002cF-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:31:40 +0100 Received: from bay24-f20.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.70]:1965 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCLox-0007O7-QE (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:31:23 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:28:10 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:27:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] bugfix Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2004 17:28:10.0321 (UTC) FILETIME=[8671AC10:01C4A580] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 18:32:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:27:23 +0100 > >A proposal to fix the issues identified by Wild Card with respect to Rule >1, Existence of the Game and Rule 3, List of Voters. > >---------- >Enact the following rule: > >The Rule That Won't Exist For Long > >This rule overrides Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules. > >If ever this rule is in force, the following definitions shall be added to >the Definitions Dictionary: > >ENTITY - Anything having existence in the real (extranomic) world. RESON - >Any construction of the game which has existence in the gameworld defined >by the rules. THINGY - synonymous with RESON > >The following changes shall then be applied to the rules: > >All occurrences of the word 'entity' in Rule 1, Existence of the Game shall >be replaced with 'reson'. > >The sentence 'This list shall be known as the List of Voters' shall be >appended to Rule 3, List of Voters. > >The Rule That Won't Exist For Long shall be deleted from the rules. >---------- > >adam Aye, looks good. JJ _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From happycarrie@gmail.com Tue Sep 28 18:41:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCLyY-000312-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:41:18 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.199]:2745 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCLyR-0002Bq-Jh (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:41:11 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so510750rnb for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.206.80 with SMTP id d80mr129193rng; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.17 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] (Re)Proposals In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 18:42:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:41:04 +0100 On 28 Sep 2004 00:44:28 +0100, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 27 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > > Dictionary Additions 1 > Sociability > ...I wandered expensively as a bird... > > Aye to all three. > > adam > > > Ditto. Carrie > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From happycarrie@gmail.com Tue Sep 28 18:45:06 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCM2D-00037t-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:45:05 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.204]:10438 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCM2A-0002qb-A6 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:45:02 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 80so2095273rnk for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.80 with SMTP id 80mr35589rnh; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.17 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Rule five part 2 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 18:46:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:44:56 +0100 On 28 Sep 2004 00:10:33 +0100, David (Birch) wrote: > > > I propose the following rule to replace my earlier proposal: > > Rule five. > > Once the stupid notice of consensus for now this rule is issued eventually, > new rules passed stand, providing, however, every fifth word (not including > words in the email title) is considered not ignored, to exist if the > Akanomic rule contains the word I "rule" in its title. Remember, This rule > only applies blindly to itself and rules not containing higher numbers than > three it. > > -- I going to say nay until this makes sense. Carrie > ---------- > dtb26@cam.ac.uk > phone number 07906 638541 > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Tue Sep 28 18:49:47 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCM6l-0003IL-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:49:47 +0100 Received: from bay24-f35.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.85]:3657 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCM6O-0002jM-BG (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:49:24 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:49:03 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:48:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] (proposal) we need this Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2004 17:49:03.0691 (UTC) FILETIME=[7182C1B0:01C4A583] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 18:50:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:48:34 +0100 > >On Sep 28 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >> >Judgement Procedure >> > >> > If a member of the List of Voters wishes to assert the validity of a > >>claim which refers solely to the rules or gamestate, that entity make > >>invoke the Judgement Procedure by publically claiming to be invoking > the >>Judgement of the Pope and supplying the statement whose validity is > >>under question. The invoking entity may also present an argument > >>suporting the statement. ---------- >> >>Couple of points on this one. I think 'rules and/or gamestate' is clearer >>than just or. Make is a typo for may, I presume. And I'm not sure whether >>all such disputes can plausibly be resolved into a single 'statement whose >>validity is under question'. So I'm voting Nay for the moment, but I look >>forward to the rule in general > >Can you give an example of a dispute which can't be sensibly resolved into >a statement whose validity is under question, but could be sensibly >resolved using this procedure if this requirement were rephrased? I'm not >asserting that such statements don't exist, I'm just wondering how you'd >like to see them accommodated. I can't think of any offhand, though I'm still a little wary that they'll manage to come up later. So I'll drop this objection. > >> >White Smoke >> > >> > When an entity invokes the Judgement of the Pope, it shall be the duty >> > of the Clerk of the Vatican to select an entity to act as Pope in the > >>resolution of that claim. This selection shall be performed by uniform > >>random selection from the set of all entities which: >> > a) have informed the Clerk of the Vatican that they are willing to > >>act as Pope, and not subsequently retracted that statement >> > b) are not considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV >> > c) are not the entity invoking the Judgement of the Pope. If this set >> > is empty, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to cause it >> > to cease being so. ---------- >> >>Aye, although I'd prefer more definition in how and when the Clerk is to >>cause it to cease being so, and preferably what happens if they don't. > >The definition of 'duty' in the rules is 'is encouraged to do that thing'. >I believe all the rules in this proposal group continue to be well-behaved >if someone fails to perform their duty, although obviously it will piss >people off. There should possibly be some sort of disincentive for >neglecting one's duty added at some point. Yes, perhaps confiscation of finances? I'd still like it to be specified that the Clerk should try to do this by asking people if they will serve, since I presume that was approximately what you meant, though. I'm not worried about them not doing it, particularly, though > >>It might also be worth recording judgements made in a publicly viewable >>place, therefore, what do you think? > >Quite so. Adding it to the Clerk of the Vatican's mandate seems the obvious >solution. Agreed. > >adam > >_______________________________________________ >Nomic-talk mailing list >Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From happycarrie@gmail.com Tue Sep 28 18:54:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCMB1-0003UC-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:54:11 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.200]:35637 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCMAq-0004vK-FM (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:54:00 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 80so2095711rnk for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.80 with SMTP id 80mr36162rnh; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.17 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money: Summary (3) In-Reply-To: <4158B9D4.9040606@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <4158B9D4.9040606@cam.ac.uk> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 18:55:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:53:56 +0100 On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:09:40 +0100, Stuart Moore wrote: > Updated Summary: We're waiting for Dave and Carrie, since the rule of > Assumed Consent appears to be functionally equivalent to hitting the > game with a dodo. I think I should be offended. > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" > (Version 2, see 18:39 25/09) > For: Stuart, JJ, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary, Martin Lester, Mike, > Adam > Against: > No comment: David, , Carrie, Aye, althought I believe I have already said so. And isn't assumed consent now active so it doesn't matter! > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" > For: Stuart, Carrie, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary, Martin Lester, > Mike, Adam > Against: > No comment: David, > Reserving Judgement: , JJ > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" > For: Stuart, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary, Martin Lester > Against: Carrie, Mike, JJ, Adam > No comment: David, > Reserving Judgement: > > "Who's the banker in the black?" > For: Stuart, JJ, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary, Martin Lester, Mike, Adam > Against: > No Comment: David, , Carrie, , > Aye. Once again I really don't have to say this do I? Carrie > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From happycarrie@gmail.com Tue Sep 28 18:58:51 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCMFX-0003hP-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:58:51 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.203]:34728 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCMFS-0003ks-0G (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:58:46 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 80so2095923rnk for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.80 with SMTP id 80mr36466rnh; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.17 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal and Qurstion In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 18:59:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:58:37 +0100 On 28 Sep 2004 17:41:16 +0100, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 28 2004, Carrie Oliver wrote: > > > On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:08:10 +0100, Jonathan David Amery > > wrote: > > > > > Proposal: > > > ---- > > > The Rule of Names > > > > > > The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player > > > may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of > > > more than half of the List of Voters, and strictly more support than > > > every other name will become the Name of the Game and any other Name > > > Proposals shall be dropped. > > > > Nay > > Why not? > > adam Because I think we should all agree on a name, you're just bitter cos I don't like your name :P Carrie > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 19:29:03 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCMil-000539-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:29:03 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50055) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCMij-0003Hj-RZ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:29:02 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCMij-0001i2-Qc for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:29:01 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Votes X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [81.78.1.8] In-Reply-To: <41599E25.8080109@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <41599E25.8080109@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 19:30:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 19:29:01 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > You say Tomato and I say Tomato > There shall be a "Minister for Clarity" who shall be in charge of > vetting all words proposed for submission to the dictionary. The > Minister of Clarity shall be responsible for keeping the dictionary up > to date, and may define the exact process for adding words to the > dictionary. However, the Minister for Clarity shall not be permitted to > propose any word for addition to the dictionary (to prevent abuse). I'm not sure I understand why it's necessary to have someone personally vet dictionary submissions, and I'm not very keen to see the ability to decide the process for adding words to the dictionary given solely to one person with no outside influence. Mike, any particular reason to do things this way? adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 19:32:59 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCMmZ-0005F0-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:32:59 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50521) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCMmT-0001ox-Gt (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:32:53 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCMmT-0002Ft-Fz for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:32:53 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Votes X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [81.78.1.8] In-Reply-To: <41599E25.8080109@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <41599E25.8080109@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 19:33:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2004 19:32:53 +0100 On Sep 28 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > I hereby expressly vote against all outstanding proposals unless either > of the following is true: Ok. Since you've just vetoed six of my outstanding proposals, at least four of which I think are quite important, I'd like to ask whether this is just to buy time to discuss things before assumed consent kicks in or whether you don't really intend to vote in favour of any of the proposals currently under consideration. adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 19:59:02 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCNBm-0006Dx-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:59:02 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:54943) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCNBg-00069P-KW (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:58:56 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CCNBd-0005Xr-V3 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:58:54 +0000 Message-ID: <4159B474.40708@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] (Re)Proposals References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 20:00:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:59:00 +0100 Aye to all of these John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > Create a Rule as follows > Dictionary Additions 1. > Add the following definitions to the Dictionary, then remove this rule > from the ruleset: > C. = unit of Currency > triangle = unit of distance on the Board > The Grid = The Board > MiniTrue = the Ministry post 'Minister of Truth' > MiniFree = the Ministry post 'Minister of Freedom' > > > > Due to muppetry, I failed to give the following two names, so I'm > re-proposing them with names, which theoretically requires new voting on > them as well. > > > Sociability > Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the same > are Friendly. > Any player whose location is at least 4 triangles from all other players > (under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. > > Prop: JJ > > > ...I wandered expensively as a bird... > 2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at > any time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, > informing the other players of this fact and their new location. > > Prop: JJ > > _________________________________________________________________ > It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 20:05:44 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCNIG-0006YZ-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:05:44 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:43617) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCNIB-0002CG-4E (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:05:39 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CCNI8-0006Bp-J5 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:05:36 +0000 Message-ID: <4159B605.6040304@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Money Money Money: Summary (3) References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <4158B9D4.9040606@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 20:06:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:05:41 +0100 Carrie Oliver wrote: > On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:09:40 +0100, Stuart Moore wrote: > >>Updated Summary: We're waiting for Dave and Carrie, since the rule of >>Assumed Consent appears to be functionally equivalent to hitting the >>game with a dodo. > > > I think I should be offended. Don't be, it was a nice dodo... > > >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" >>(Version 2, see 18:39 25/09) >>For: Stuart, JJ, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary, Martin Lester, Mike, >>Adam >>Against: >>No comment: David, , Carrie, > > > Aye, althought I believe I have already said so. And isn't assumed > consent now active so it doesn't matter! My apologies for not making this clearer, I proposed a 2nd version of the rule in response to people's suggestions > > >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "A job? What's that then?" >>For: Stuart, Carrie, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary, Martin Lester, >>Mike, Adam, JJ >>Against: >>No comment: David, >>Reserving Judgement: >> >>Proposal for the creation of the rule "Bureaucrats (Inc)" >>For: Stuart, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary, Martin Lester >>Against: Carrie, Mike, JJ, Adam >>No comment: David, >>Reserving Judgement: >> >>"Who's the banker in the black?" >>For: Stuart, JJ, Jonathan, Martin O'Leary, Martin Lester, Mike, Adam >>Against: >>No Comment: David, , Carrie, , >> > > Aye. Once again I really don't have to say this do I? Assumed Consent seems (to me) to be broken, so I'm not going to use it (until I consider it fixed). See "It's broke, so let's fix it" for proposed fix. From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Sep 28 20:07:05 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCNJZ-0006aa-00 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:07:05 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:37784) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCNJR-0002SZ-Iy (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:06:57 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CCNJR-0000ZU-4D for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:06:57 +0000 Message-ID: <4159B657.3060001@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] bugfix References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 28 20:08:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:07:03 +0100 Aye, seems a good thing (TM) From mikec@mxtelecom.com Wed Sep 29 10:05:43 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCaP9-0000Px-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:05:43 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:47253 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCaP4-0001qq-GM (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:05:38 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CCaOy-0006Lf-Pm for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:05:32 +0100 Message-ID: <415A7AB2.7020502@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Votes References: <41599E25.8080109@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 10:06:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:04:50 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 28 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > >> I hereby expressly vote against all outstanding proposals unless >> either of the following is true: > > > Ok. Since you've just vetoed six of my outstanding proposals, at least > four of which I think are quite important, I'd like to ask whether this > is just to buy time to discuss things before assumed consent kicks in or > whether you don't really intend to vote in favour of any of the > proposals currently under consideration. > > adam It's the former - I _really_ don't have time at work to sit down and work out exactly what each proposal means / look for badly worded bits etc etc. After tomorrow night I'll be able to give things more decent consideration. I apologise for holding things up. Mike From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 10:34:28 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCaqy-0002GO-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:34:28 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:58351) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCaqt-0000GL-OA (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:34:23 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCaqt-0006ro-Mz for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:34:23 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Votes X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.190.175] In-Reply-To: <415A7AB2.7020502@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <41599E25.8080109@mxtelecom.com> <415A7AB2.7020502@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 10:35:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 29 Sep 2004 10:34:23 +0100 On Sep 29 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > It's the former - I _really_ don't have time at work to sit down and > work out exactly what each proposal means / look for badly worded bits > etc etc. After tomorrow night I'll be able to give things more decent > consideration. I apologise for holding things up. Okay, no worries. Now back to work with you! adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 11:01:20 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCbGy-0003UX-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:01:20 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:38050) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbGs-0005Nl-V6 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:01:14 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbGi-0004Ip-U2 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:01:04 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.190.175] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] doing it right (possibly) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 11:02:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 29 Sep 2004 11:01:04 +0100 Wild Card's coup attempt raised the issue that the rules have never defined exactly what the List of Voters is. There's a proposal under consideration to fix this, but it hasn't passed yet (and in fact, couldn't do until I issue notice on it anyway). Wild Card's coup attempt failed because he attempted to create a List of Voters within the game, which is prohibited by Rule 1, Existence of the Game. I note, however, that there is clear acknowledgement by all parties that extranomic entities can have an effect on the game, viz., the fact that we as extranomic entities change the rules by making and approving proposals. I have a piece of paper here upon which is written: List of Voters 1. Adam Biltcliffe Photographic evidence can be provided on request. In the absence of any other apparent candidate, I submit that this should be considered the List of Voters. Therefore, I am the only member of the List of Voters. In addition, since the List of Voters has not until now existed, the only rules currently in effect are actually the initial ruleset. I therefore make and consent to the following proposal (noting that the issuing of a Notice of Consensus is not required): ---------- Alter the ruleset to be that which it was claimed to be at 11am on Wednesday, September 29th 2004 on the Nomic website (http://www.srcf.ucam.org/nomic). Append the sentence "the name 'List of Voters' shall be considered to refer exclusively to this list" to Rule 3, List of Voters. Enact the following rule: Imperious Emperor Adam Biltcliffe may make any change to the gamestate he desires by making a public declaration that he is doing so. ---------- I note that after this proposal, the List of Voters will be the list we've always considered it to be, ie. all of you will still be on it. Also, the power to change the gamestate is less worldshaking than it would be in a game like Axiom, since under my interpretation, proposals and votes are still considered to be extranomic entities, and hence I can't change them. So, anyone object? adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 11:09:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCbOg-0003uk-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:09:18 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:40005) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbOd-0001e7-MI (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:09:15 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbOd-0006Cd-L8 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:09:15 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.190.175] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] whoops Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 11:10:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 29 Sep 2004 11:09:15 +0100 Dammit, I knew I'd fluff that up. I missed out the important sentence I knew I really had to include. Fortunately, I think there's an out. The new Rule 18, Imperious Emperor declares that I can make any change to the gamestate I desire. This conflicts with Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules, which says that the rules can't change except when a Consensus of Opinion exists, and I forgot to put in an overriding clause, so the rules contain an unresolvable conflict. However, I believe I should still definitely be allowed to make changes to the gamestate *not* affecting the rules. Since the List of Voters now definitely *is* an entity existing within the game, I can change it. So, I remove evryone except me from the List of Voters. Then I propose, consent to and issue a pink Notice of Consensus for the following proposal: Append the sentence 'This rule takes precedence over Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules' to Rule 18, Imperious Emperor. That done, I restore the List of Voters to what it was before I sent this email. Conflict resolved. I'm not updating any of this onto the website just yet, since I thought I'd see if anyone finds fault with my coup first. If they don't, of course, I'm slacking in my duty as Minister of Freedom; sorry about that. adam From mikec@mxtelecom.com Wed Sep 29 11:12:52 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCbS8-00043n-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:12:52 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:48229 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbRp-0004X7-Cv (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:12:33 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CCbRi-0008WJ-DP for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:12:26 +0100 Message-ID: <415A8A60.9050102@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] doing it right (possibly) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 11:13:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:11:44 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Wild Card's coup attempt raised the issue that the rules have never > defined exactly what the List of Voters is. There's a proposal under > consideration to fix this, but it hasn't passed yet (and in fact, > couldn't do until I issue notice on it anyway). > > Wild Card's coup attempt failed because he attempted to create a List of > Voters within the game, which is prohibited by Rule 1, Existence of the > Game. I note, however, that there is clear acknowledgement by all > parties that extranomic entities can have an effect on the game, viz., > the fact that we as extranomic entities change the rules by making and > approving proposals. > > I have a piece of paper here upon which is written: > > List of Voters > 1. Adam Biltcliffe > > Photographic evidence can be provided on request. In the absence of any > other apparent candidate, I submit that this should be considered the > List of Voters. > > Therefore, I am the only member of the List of Voters. In addition, > since the List of Voters has not until now existed, the only rules > currently in effect are actually the initial ruleset. I therefore make > and consent to the following proposal (noting that the issuing of a > Notice of Consensus is not required): > > ---------- Alter the ruleset to be that which it was claimed to be at > 11am on Wednesday, September 29th 2004 on the Nomic website > (http://www.srcf.ucam.org/nomic). > > Append the sentence "the name 'List of Voters' shall be considered to > refer exclusively to this list" to Rule 3, List of Voters. > > Enact the following rule: > > Imperious Emperor > > Adam Biltcliffe may make any change to the gamestate he desires by > making a public declaration that he is doing so. ---------- > > I note that after this proposal, the List of Voters will be the list > we've always considered it to be, ie. all of you will still be on it. > Also, the power to change the gamestate is less worldshaking than it > would be in a game like Axiom, since under my interpretation, proposals > and votes are still considered to be extranomic entities, and hence I > can't change them. > > So, anyone object? > > adam > I object on the grounds that you aren't actually proposing the motion _to_ anyone (due to noone else being on the list of voters). I suggest, therefore, that you have failed to obtain "unabiguous consent to the proposal from each such entity". (From Rule 4 - Consensus of Opinion) From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 11:15:01 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCbUD-00048N-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:15:01 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:48042) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbU2-00037S-Ko (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:14:50 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CCbU1-0001Cz-58 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:14:49 +0000 Message-ID: <415A8B21.4090507@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] whoops References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 11:16:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:14:57 +0100 Don't think you can do that "The game shall contain a list of names which refer to specific entities in the real (extranomic) world." "The game and all entities existing within it have a persistent state which can only change as described by the rules." Therefore the list of names is within the game and hence can only change as described by the rules. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 11:17:35 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCbWh-0004Hx-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:17:35 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:41826) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbWd-0006x9-53 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:17:31 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbWd-0007yp-48 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:17:31 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] doing it right (possibly) X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.190.175] In-Reply-To: <415A8A60.9050102@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <415A8A60.9050102@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 11:18:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 29 Sep 2004 11:17:31 +0100 On Sep 29 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > I object on the grounds that you aren't actually proposing the motion > _to_ anyone (due to noone else being on the list of voters). I suggest, > therefore, that you have failed to obtain "unabiguous consent to the > proposal from each such entity". I've proposed it to all other entities named on the List of Voters - that being none, and I haven't failed to propose it to any of them. Arguably, I didn't actually need to tell anyone what my proposal was, since as soon as I come up with one it fulfils the criterion of having been proposed to all zero other voting entities and having been consented to by all zero other voting entities, so it passes into the rules. Also, I note that if your objection *does* stand, we're left with the even more stupid situation in which I'm the only person on the List of Voters and neither me nor anyone else can do anything to affect the game. adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 11:19:29 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCbYX-0004Ow-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:19:29 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:56847) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbYU-0001fp-1Q (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:19:26 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CCbYT-0004TS-6b for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:19:25 +0000 Message-ID: <415A8C36.1090007@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] doing it right (possibly) References: <415A8A60.9050102@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 11:20:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:19:34 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 29 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > >> I object on the grounds that you aren't actually proposing the motion >> _to_ anyone (due to noone else being on the list of voters). I >> suggest, therefore, that you have failed to obtain "unabiguous consent >> to the proposal from each such entity". > > > I've proposed it to all other entities named on the List of Voters - > that being none, and I haven't failed to propose it to any of them. > Arguably, I didn't actually need to tell anyone what my proposal was, > since as soon as I come up with one it fulfils the criterion of having > been proposed to all zero other voting entities and having been > consented to by all zero other voting entities, so it passes into the > rules. > > Also, I note that if your objection *does* stand, we're left with the > even more stupid situation in which I'm the only person on the List of > Voters and neither me nor anyone else can do anything to affect the game. Yes we could. You could write my name on the list of voters and we share a joint coup. Did I say that out loud? From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 11:21:35 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCbaZ-0004VG-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:21:35 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:42784) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.130]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbaE-0006je-ES (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:21:14 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbaE-0000NM-DV for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:21:14 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] whoops X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.190.175] In-Reply-To: <415A8B21.4090507@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <415A8B21.4090507@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 11:22:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 29 Sep 2004 11:21:14 +0100 On Sep 29 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Don't think you can do that > > "The game shall contain a list of names which refer to specific entities > in the real (extranomic) world." > > "The game and all entities existing within it have a persistent state > which can only change as described by the rules." > > Therefore the list of names is within the game and hence can only change > as described by the rules. This is the 'bugfix' email you're objecting to, right? Rule 18, Imperious Emperor is clearly a rule, and it clearly states that I can change the gamestate to whatever I want. Therefore, the list is changing in a manner described by the rules and so is clearly legal according to the rule you quoted. The problem only arises when it comes to the issue of whether I can change the *rules* by Imperial decree, since the rules say both that I can (Rule 18, Imperious Emperor) and can't (Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules). The bugfix which I just passed by the totally legal method of removing everyone else from the List of Voters and then passing it in the normal way solves this inconsistency. adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 11:23:24 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCbcK-0004Yu-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:23:24 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:35837) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbcF-0005Pm-5m (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:23:19 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CCbcE-00072I-Pk for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:23:18 +0000 Message-ID: <415A8D1F.6050700@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] whoops References: <415A8B21.4090507@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.554, AWL -0.55, ITS_LEGAL 1.11) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 11:24:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:23:27 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 29 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > >> Don't think you can do that >> >> "The game shall contain a list of names which refer to specific >> entities in the real (extranomic) world." >> >> "The game and all entities existing within it have a persistent state >> which can only change as described by the rules." >> >> Therefore the list of names is within the game and hence can only >> change as described by the rules. > > > This is the 'bugfix' email you're objecting to, right? Apologies, was an objection to both > > Rule 18, Imperious Emperor is clearly a rule, and it clearly states that > I can change the gamestate to whatever I want. Therefore, the list is > changing in a manner described by the rules and so is clearly legal > according to the rule you quoted. > > The problem only arises when it comes to the issue of whether I can > change the *rules* by Imperial decree, since the rules say both that I > can (Rule 18, Imperious Emperor) and can't (Rule 2, Mutability of the > Rules). The bugfix which I just passed by the totally legal method of > removing everyone else from the List of Voters and then passing it in > the normal way solves this inconsistency. > > adam > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 11:26:43 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCbfX-0004gr-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:26:43 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:44205) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbfU-0003Uh-C2 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:26:40 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCbfU-0001ce-8W for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:26:40 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] whoops X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.190.175] In-Reply-To: <415A8B21.4090507@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <415A8B21.4090507@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 11:27:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 29 Sep 2004 11:26:40 +0100 On Sep 29 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Don't think you can do that > > "The game shall contain a list of names which refer to specific entities > in the real (extranomic) world." > > "The game and all entities existing within it have a persistent state > which can only change as described by the rules." > > Therefore the list of names is within the game and hence can only change > as described by the rules. Ok, having just been informed that you were actually objecting to the original coup: Your objection is entirely correct. However, it's also irrelevant. As you said, I can't change the list of names as defined by Rule 3 without going through the proper legal procedures. However, the rules do not declare that this list is in fact the List of Voters. The only List of Voters I've seen is the one on my bedroom floor, and I'm the only person on it. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 11:35:55 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCboR-000566-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:35:55 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:46464) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCboL-0000FL-K3 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:35:49 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCboL-0003ge-Iy for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:35:49 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] doing it right (possibly) X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.190.175] In-Reply-To: <415A8C36.1090007@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <415A8A60.9050102@mxtelecom.com> <415A8C36.1090007@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 11:36:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 29 Sep 2004 11:35:49 +0100 On Sep 29 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > > Also, I note that if your objection *does* stand, we're left with the > > even more stupid situation in which I'm the only person on the List of > > Voters and neither me nor anyone else can do anything to affect the > > game. > > Yes we could. You could write my name on the list of voters and we share > a joint coup. > > Did I say that out loud? I admit that the thought had occured to me. Applications for the position of my bestest buddy are welcome. adam From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 11:51:02 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCc34-0005jp-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:51:02 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:34056) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCc2z-00046o-Ee (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:50:57 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CCc2y-0001YO-Lf for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:50:56 +0000 Message-ID: <415A9399.1050103@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.277, AWL 0.28) Subject: [Nomic] The game ended a couple of days ago Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 11:52:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:51:05 +0100 Here's an alternative interpretation, which I'm not persuing since it means the game is in an unchangeable state, but it's worth looking at. "Consensus of Opinion" refers to entities named on the List of Voters. List of Voters is a rule, that used to contain names. Then we got rid of them, at which point no more rules could pass. Hey Ho. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 11:54:16 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCc6C-0005qm-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:54:16 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50822) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCc64-0005hY-P0 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:54:08 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCc64-0007xJ-Nt for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:54:08 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] The game ended a couple of days ago X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.190.175] In-Reply-To: <415A9399.1050103@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <415A9399.1050103@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 11:55:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 29 Sep 2004 11:54:08 +0100 On Sep 29 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Here's an alternative interpretation, which I'm not persuing since it > means the game is in an unchangeable state, but it's worth looking at. > > "Consensus of Opinion" refers to entities named on the List of Voters. > > List of Voters is a rule, that used to contain names. Then we got rid of > them, at which point no more rules could pass. Hey Ho. I think I prefer mine. adam From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 12:49:55 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCcy3-0007sO-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:49:55 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:36457) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCcy1-00068v-4Q (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:49:53 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCcy1-0003nZ-3O for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:49:53 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.190.175] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Imperial Decree #1 Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 12:50:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 29 Sep 2004 12:49:53 +0100 Since the consensus (with a lowercase c) appears to be that my appointment to Emperorhood is valid, I hereby decree, to resolve all ambiguities, that the current state of the rules, List of Voters, List of Handles and occupation of Ministry roles is as presently specified on the Nomic website (which is the state I believe it should have been in after my coup). In particular: * There are nine people on the List of Voters, and it's the same nine as it's always been * Rule 3, List of Voters has been amended to specify that the list it defines is the List of Voters * There is currently no Law of Lizardmen * Rule 18, Imperious Emperor has been enacted, and specifically states that it takes precedence over Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules I also declare my pseudonym to be 'Emperor Explicivist'. I encourage all my subjects to adopt pseudonyms as well. I don't intend to abuse the position of Emperorhood; save for perhaps the occasional decree making fixes to the phrasing of rules, I shall mostly continue to make and vote on proposals like everyone else. adam From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Wed Sep 29 13:01:31 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCd9H-0008Hu-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:01:31 +0100 Received: from bay24-f17.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.67]:3056 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCd91-0006eN-Ia (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:01:15 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 05:01:00 -0700 Received: from 80.3.0.44 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:00:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.44] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] Imperial Decree #1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2004 12:01:00.0682 (UTC) FILETIME=[FCAE36A0:01C4A61B] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 13:02:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:00:52 +0100 > >Since the consensus (with a lowercase c) appears to be that my appointment >to Emperorhood is valid, I hereby decree, to resolve all ambiguities, that >the current state of the rules, List of Voters, List of Handles and >occupation of Ministry roles is as presently specified on the Nomic website >(which is the state I believe it should have been in after my coup). In >particular: > >* There are nine people on the List of Voters, and it's the same nine as >it's always been * Rule 3, List of Voters has been amended to specify that >the list it defines is the List of Voters * There is currently no Law of >Lizardmen * Rule 18, Imperious Emperor has been enacted, and specifically >states that it takes precedence over Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules > >I also declare my pseudonym to be 'Emperor Explicivist'. I encourage all my >subjects to adopt pseudonyms as well. I declare my psuedonym to be 'Moderately High Evil Thingumabob', or MHET for short (does that need to go in the Dictionary? > >I don't intend to abuse the position of Emperorhood; save for perhaps the >occasional decree making fixes to the phrasing of rules, I shall mostly >continue to make and vote on proposals like everyone else. Hrrrm. JJ _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo From happycarrie@gmail.com Wed Sep 29 14:25:28 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCeSW-00042W-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:25:28 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.197]:60154 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCeSK-0001Ht-OP (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:25:16 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so548039rnb for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.1.72 with SMTP id 72mr166126rna; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.17 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] doing it right (possibly) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <415A8A60.9050102@mxtelecom.com> <415A8C36.1090007@cam.ac.uk> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 14:26:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:25:10 +0100 On 29 Sep 2004 11:35:49 +0100, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 29 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > > > Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > > > > Also, I note that if your objection *does* stand, we're left with the > > > even more stupid situation in which I'm the only person on the List of > > > Voters and neither me nor anyone else can do anything to affect the > > > game. > > > > Yes we could. You could write my name on the list of voters and we share > > a joint coup. > > > > Did I say that out loud? > > I admit that the thought had occured to me. Applications for the position > of my bestest buddy are welcome. > > adam > > Ooh, me, me, me! Carrie :) > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From happycarrie@gmail.com Wed Sep 29 14:33:54 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCeag-0004Qz-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:33:54 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.203]:43038 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCeaR-0004Ir-6q (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:33:39 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 80so2128115rnk for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.80 with SMTP id 80mr72614rnh; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.17 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: Nomic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Subject: [Nomic] Proposals Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 14:34:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:33:27 +0100 Okay. You may hate all these suggestions but we need a name so... I propose the following rules: ============== Thats the Name of the Game The game shall have a name and it shall be "Astronomic" ================ Name that Game The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bowling for Buzzards" ============== Thrid Time Lucky The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bobbing for Snapping Turtles" ============== Okay. If those are no good someone else can come up with something. Carrie From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 14:36:40 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCedM-0004b9-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:36:40 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:51269) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCedJ-0006qK-RQ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:36:37 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CCedJ-0007qc-2i for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:36:37 +0000 Message-ID: <415ABA6C.6070107@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 14:37:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:36:44 +0100 Carrie Oliver wrote: > Okay. You may hate all these suggestions but we need a name so... > I propose the following rules: > > ============== > Thats the Name of the Game > > The game shall have a name and it shall be "Astronomic" > > ================ > Name that Game > > The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bowling for Buzzards" > > ============== > Thrid Time Lucky > > The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bobbing for Snapping Turtles" > > ============== My favourite is "Bowling for Buzzards" so I'll vote yay to that, nay to the other two, but I will change my vote if public opinion goes another way From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed Sep 29 14:46:10 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCemY-0004vs-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:46:10 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:57722) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCemU-0000Vp-99 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:46:06 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CCemR-0007Bg-00; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:46:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCegu-0004WI-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:40:20 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:33:27 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 14:47:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:40:20 +0100 > Okay. You may hate all these suggestions but we need a name so... > I propose the following rules: > > ============== > Thats the Name of the Game > > The game shall have a name and it shall be "Astronomic" > > ================ > Name that Game > > The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bowling for Buzzards" > > ============== > Thrid Time Lucky > > The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bobbing for Snapping Turtles" > Aye to all three. From mikec@mxtelecom.com Wed Sep 29 14:48:13 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCeoX-00051M-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:48:13 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:51133 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCeoC-0007wt-5g (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:47:52 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CCeo1-00049r-OH for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:47:41 +0100 Message-ID: <415ABCFB.5000705@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] New Summary (please vote) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 14:49:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:47:39 +0100 Oops, sorry guys. three more votes > > Bored Of Being Board > > There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of > Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of > entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If > at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The > Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). > === > > Proposer: Martin > Aye: JJ, Stumo, adam, Carrie, Madeleine, dok > > +Aye > > > > 1. Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the > same are Friendly. > Any player whose location is at least 4 units from all other players > (under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. > > Prop: JJ > Aye: Madeleine, Stumo +Aye > > > > > 2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at > any time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, > informing the other players of this fact and their new location. > > Prop: JJ > Aye: Madeleine, Stumo > > > Oh, +Aye From mikec@mxtelecom.com Wed Sep 29 14:48:28 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCeom-000521-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:48:28 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:51148 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCeok-0003bD-1r (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:48:26 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CCeob-0004Ae-NC for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:48:17 +0100 Message-ID: <415ABD20.4010009@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 14:49:04 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:48:16 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: >>Okay. You may hate all these suggestions but we need a name so... >>I propose the following rules: >> >>============== >>Thats the Name of the Game >> >>The game shall have a name and it shall be "Astronomic" Aye >> >>================ >>Name that Game >> >>The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bowling for Buzzards" Nay >> >>============== >>Thrid Time Lucky >> >>The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bobbing for Snapping Turtles" >> > > Nay From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 15:46:38 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCfj4-0008NH-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:46:38 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:49982) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCfj1-0003m5-Hw (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:46:35 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCfj1-0000lj-H7 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:46:35 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [81.76.168.82] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 15:47:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 29 Sep 2004 15:46:35 +0100 On Sep 29 2004, Carrie Oliver wrote: > Okay. You may hate all these suggestions but we need a name so... > I propose the following rules: > > ============== > Thats the Name of the Game > > The game shall have a name and it shall be "Astronomic" > ================ Aye! Nay to the other two, but out of interest -- why buzzards? adam From happycarrie@gmail.com Wed Sep 29 16:00:32 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCfwW-0000XO-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:00:32 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.198]:13322 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCfwS-000456-QK (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:00:28 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so552524rnb for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:00:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.206.80 with SMTP id d80mr170258rng; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:00:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.17 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:00:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 16:01:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:00:22 +0100 On 29 Sep 2004 15:46:35 +0100, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 29 2004, Carrie Oliver wrote: > > > Okay. You may hate all these suggestions but we need a name so... > > I propose the following rules: > > > > ============== > > Thats the Name of the Game > > > > The game shall have a name and it shall be "Astronomic" > > ================ > > Aye! > > Nay to the other two, but out of interest -- why buzzards? > > adam > > > Lion King!!!!!! Come on you only watched it... 2 days ago. Carrie > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed Sep 29 16:16:26 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCgBu-0001I1-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:16:26 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:37064) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCgBl-0007uJ-0O (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:16:17 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CCgBY-0002Z0-00; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:16:04 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCg9E-000566-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:13:40 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposal - Community Chest Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 16:17:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:13:39 +0100 Community Chest There exists a class of object called Community Chest Cards. Community Chest Cards may be created at whim out of the ether as required by the rules. When a Community Chest Card is played, it is destroyed. There exists a dictionary of Community Chest Card types, and their actions. Initially this is empty. If a rule does not specify what type of Community Chest Card is created then they are created at random; with an equal likelyhood of each type. Unless otherwise specified by the rules the type of any Community Chest Card is a secret, revealed only to the player who possesses it. Community Chest Card actions have the force of rule. ---- (Before you ask, we do have the technology) From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Wed Sep 29 20:57:31 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCkZv-0004jg-00 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:57:31 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:54048) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCkZm-0008Pw-KX (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:57:22 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CCkZh-0000qd-Ql for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:57:17 +0000 Message-ID: <415B13A7.5080500@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal - Community Chest References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Sep 29 20:58:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:57:27 +0100 Nice. I vote aye Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Community Chest > > There exists a class of object called Community Chest Cards. > > Community Chest Cards may be created at whim out of the ether as > required by the rules. > > When a Community Chest Card is played, it is destroyed. > > There exists a dictionary of Community Chest Card types, and their > actions. Initially this is empty. > > If a rule does not specify what type of Community Chest Card is > created then they are created at random; with an equal likelyhood of > each type. > > Unless otherwise specified by the rules the type of any Community > Chest Card is a secret, revealed only to the player who possesses it. > > Community Chest Card actions have the force of rule. > ---- > > (Before you ask, we do have the technology) > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 00:49:56 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCoCq-0005o5-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:49:56 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:33737) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.130]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCoCn-0000Hm-Ui (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:49:53 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CCoCn-0001Fo-Tj for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:49:53 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal - Community Chest X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.190.191] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 00:50:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 30 Sep 2004 00:49:53 +0100 On Sep 29 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Community Chest Cards may be created at whim out of the ether as > required by the rules. I find this statement confusing. Does this mean players can create cards at whim, or just that the creation of cards by action of the rules is not restricted? Either way I vote yes. Hey, if it turns out to be too broken, I'll just use my Imperial powers to destroy all the cards ;) adam From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 30 05:26:24 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCsWO-0004Oz-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 05:26:24 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:58824) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCsWK-0007Kc-En (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 05:26:20 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CCs80-0004yu-00; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 05:01:12 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCoK5-0007mU-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:57:25 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal - Community Chest In-Reply-To: Your message of "30 Sep 2004 00:49:53 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 05:27:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:57:25 +0100 > On Sep 29 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > > Community Chest Cards may be created at whim out of the ether as > > required by the rules. > > I find this statement confusing. Does this mean players can create cards at > whim, or just that the creation of cards by action of the rules is not > restricted? The latter :) WC. From mikec@mxtelecom.com Thu Sep 30 11:39:22 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCyLK-0007kK-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:39:22 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:37546 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCxB4-0001v9-Dm (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:24:42 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CCxAu-0006Zl-E6 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:24:32 +0100 Message-ID: <415BCFEF.7020903@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal - Community Chest References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 11:40:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:20:47 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Community Chest > > There exists a class of object called Community Chest Cards. > > Community Chest Cards may be created at whim out of the ether as > required by the rules. > > When a Community Chest Card is played, it is destroyed. > > There exists a dictionary of Community Chest Card types, and their > actions. Initially this is empty. > > If a rule does not specify what type of Community Chest Card is > created then they are created at random; with an equal likelyhood of > each type. > > Unless otherwise specified by the rules the type of any Community > Chest Card is a secret, revealed only to the player who possesses it. > > Community Chest Card actions have the force of rule. Vote Aye from me From happycarrie@gmail.com Thu Sep 30 12:09:44 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CCyoi-0000pf-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 12:09:44 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.203]:41856 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CCyoV-0004yx-HG (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 12:09:31 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 80so2165562rnk for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 04:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.80 with SMTP id 80mr310255rnh; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 04:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.17 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 04:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal - Community Chest In-Reply-To: <415BCFEF.7020903@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <415BCFEF.7020903@mxtelecom.com> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 12:10:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 12:09:21 +0100 On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:20:47 +0100, Mike Cripps wrote: > Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > Community Chest > > > > There exists a class of object called Community Chest Cards. > > > > Community Chest Cards may be created at whim out of the ether as > > required by the rules. > > > > When a Community Chest Card is played, it is destroyed. > > > > There exists a dictionary of Community Chest Card types, and their > > actions. Initially this is empty. > > > > If a rule does not specify what type of Community Chest Card is > > created then they are created at random; with an equal likelyhood of > > each type. > > > > Unless otherwise specified by the rules the type of any Community > > Chest Card is a secret, revealed only to the player who possesses it. > > > > Community Chest Card actions have the force of rule. > > Vote Aye from me > Aye Carrie > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From dtb26@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 14:53:36 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD1NI-0000De-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:53:36 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:41978) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD1NF-0001Gu-FP (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:53:33 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CD1NF-0006is-EN for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:53:33 +0100 From: "David (Birch)" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [213.106.167.33] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] My votes. Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 14:54:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 30 Sep 2004 14:53:33 +0100 I'm very busy at the moment, and autoadaption is broken. Therefore I vote "aye" to all current outstanding proposals that do not specificly name me. -- ---------- dtb26@cam.ac.uk phone number 07906 638541 From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 30 15:16:16 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD1jE-0001Fa-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:16:16 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:48686) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD1j6-000710-By (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:16:08 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CD1j3-0004TO-00; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:16:05 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD1e7-0004GQ-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:10:59 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Scotsman's Votes Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 15:17:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:10:59 +0100 I also can't actually find it oh, I see it ok, yes, they all seem sane Aye to the lot :) From mikec@mxtelecom.com Thu Sep 30 15:18:48 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD1lg-0001OK-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:18:48 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:41725 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD1lI-00069g-0o (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:18:24 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CD1lB-00068s-6Z for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:18:17 +0100 Message-ID: <415C159F.4050205@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Scotsman's Votes References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 15:19:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:18:07 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I also can't actually find it > oh, I see it > ok, yes, they all seem sane > Aye to the lot :) > Hush you naughty man. That's in reference to adam's Papal proposals From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 15:18:49 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD1lh-0001OV-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:18:49 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:48084) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD1lb-0007c0-H8 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:18:43 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CD1lb-0004Xi-G9 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:18:43 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.160.126] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Imperial Proclamation #2 Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 15:19:05 2004 X-Original-Date: 30 Sep 2004 15:18:41 +0100 There's been a bit of arguing about whether Rule 11, The Rule of Assumed Consent should be interpreted to mean that a voter who has ever expressed any lack of consent to *anything* is exempt from having their consent assumed under the rule (the literal interpretation), or whether it should be implicit that only an objection to the proposal under consideration counts (the original intent of the rule). Since this seems to be a pointless argument of semantics, I declare that the situation shall be resolved by appending the words 'to that proposal' to Rule 11, The Rule of Assumed Consent, so that it now reads, in full: ---------- Rule 11, The Rule of Assumed Consent A player shall be considered to have given their consent to a proposal if the following are true: The proposal was suggested more then 72 hours ago, and they haven't explicitly expressed a lack of consent to that proposal. ---------- Your benevolent Emperor From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 15:22:53 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD1pd-0001aM-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:22:53 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:49214) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD1pY-00044a-5Y (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:22:48 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CD1pY-0005Sp-4S for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:22:48 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Scotsman's Votes X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.160.126] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 15:23:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 30 Sep 2004 15:22:48 +0100 On Sep 30 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I also can't actually find it > oh, I see it > ok, yes, they all seem sane > Aye to the lot :) And, for context, he was referring to my set of proposals for defining the Judgement of the Pope, in my email timestamped Tue Sep 28 00:25:02 2004. Stuart raised some minor quibbles with phrasing, but with the withdrawal of Mike's objection, no-one has 'explicitly objected', and so these rules are currently due to all pass in nine hours' time. EE From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 30 15:23:09 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD1pt-0001bQ-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:23:09 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:49187) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD1pq-00043i-4X (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:23:06 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CD1pn-0005Fb-00; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:23:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD1lk-0004K0-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:18:52 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Proposals -- I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land && I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 15:24:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:18:52 +0100 I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land The Duty of the Minister of Perspicuity shall be to keep a record of important game events; viz to be a game historian. ---- I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind Initially the Minister of Perspicuity shall be Wild Card. ---- From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 15:26:54 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD1tW-0001kk-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:26:54 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:50195) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD1tU-00018E-9W (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:26:52 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CD1tU-0006N8-8N for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:26:52 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals -- I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land && I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.160.126] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 15:27:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 30 Sep 2004 15:26:52 +0100 On Sep 30 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land > > The Duty of the Minister of Perspicuity shall be to keep a record of > important game events; viz to be a game historian. > ---- > I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind > > Initially the Minister of Perspicuity shall be Wild Card. > ---- I explicitly and unambiguously consent to the passing of both of these proposals. EE From mikec@mxtelecom.com Thu Sep 30 15:30:42 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD1xC-0001uK-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:30:42 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:41909 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD1vP-0001ah-4c (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:28:51 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CD1vI-0006Sf-WD for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:28:45 +0100 Message-ID: <415C1817.5020306@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals -- I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land && I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 15:31:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:28:39 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 30 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > >> I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land >> >> The Duty of the Minister of Perspicuity shall be to keep a record of >> important game events; viz to be a game historian. >> ---- >> I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind >> >> Initially the Minister of Perspicuity shall be Wild Card. >> ---- > > > I explicitly and unambiguously consent to the passing of both of these > proposals. > out of interest, does 'Aye' count as that? But Aye to both Mike From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 16:28:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD2qw-00018F-03 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:28:18 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:60135) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD2di-0003WU-3I (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:14:38 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CD2dD-0000p1-63 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:14:07 +0000 Message-ID: <415C22CB.2070301@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Notices of consent Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 16:29:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:14:19 +0100 These have now passed: Notice of Consent: This is a Gold coloured notice of consent, to state that the following rule has been agreed: "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with balance zero. Balances will be looked after by the Chief Cashier, who should publish a breakdown of balances and transaction history for each day. The post of Chief Cashier will be a Ministry post, should this phrase have any meaning in the game. This is a green coloured notice of consent, to state that the following rule has been agreed: "A job? What's that then?" Each member of the list of voters will have their BANK accounts increased by one currency unit at midnight each night. This is a black coloured notice of consent (with off-black writing for those who care) to state that the following rule has been agreed: "Who's the banker in the black?" The Chief Cashier will be Stuart Moore From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 16:28:19 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD2qx-00018F-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:28:19 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:48597) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD2YK-0002KL-Ej (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:09:04 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CD2XJ-0004UZ-Hz for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:08:01 +0000 Message-ID: <415C2156.8070608@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals -- I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land && I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind References: <415C1817.5020306@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: <415C1817.5020306@mxtelecom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 16:29:06 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:08:06 +0100 Mike Cripps wrote: > Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > >> On Sep 30 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: >> >>> I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land >>> >>> The Duty of the Minister of Perspicuity shall be to keep a record of >>> important game events; viz to be a game historian. >>> ---- >>> I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind >>> >>> Initially the Minister of Perspicuity shall be Wild Card. >>> ---- >> >> >> >> I explicitly and unambiguously consent to the passing of both of these >> proposals. >> > out of interest, does 'Aye' count as that? > > But Aye to both > We can put Aye in the dictionary of course... we could put Aye to mean "I object" and really screw the game ;) From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 16:28:55 2004 Received: from ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.131]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD2rX-0001Aq-01 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:28:55 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:34008) by ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.141]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD2eg-0000jz-QJ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:15:38 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CD2eC-0001eI-23 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:15:08 +0000 Message-ID: <415C2307.20203@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal: It's broke, so lets fix it. References: <4158B622.60307@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4158B622.60307@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 16:29:09 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:15:19 +0100 Stuart Moore wrote: > > Proposal to ensure everything is on the email list: > > Create the rule: Public Records > > If a member of the list of voters wishes a view expressed by them to > have an effect on the game, it must be recorded by sending an email to > the email list. The view shall be considered to have been expressed at > the time the email was sent, as recorded by the email list archives. If > a view has not been expressed in this manner, it may be ignored by > members of the list of voters at their leisure. > I believe this rule is currently blocked by Mike's blanket "No" From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 16:33:26 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD2vu-0001ST-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:33:26 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:47849) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD2vT-0007sm-Av (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:32:59 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CD2vQ-0002zk-4C for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:32:56 +0000 Message-ID: <415C2720.8070808@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals -- I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land && I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 16:34:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:32:48 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land > > The Duty of the Minister of Perspicuity shall be to keep a record of > important game events; viz to be a game historian. > ---- > I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind > > Initially the Minister of Perspicuity shall be Wild Card. > ---- Aye - although I'm wondering if we're cluttering up the rules with these ministry posts and definitions - possibly we move the list of ministry posts and their rolls elsewhere (create a "Mutability of the Ministry" rule similar to the Mutability of the Rules one, possibly allowing for impeachment From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 17:37:57 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD3wL-0004X6-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:37:57 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:53896) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.130]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD3w8-0003sY-5l (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:37:44 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CD3w8-0003aW-4I for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:37:44 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals -- I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land && I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.180.134] In-Reply-To: <415C1817.5020306@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <415C1817.5020306@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 17:38:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 30 Sep 2004 17:37:42 +0100 On Sep 30 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > > > I explicitly and unambiguously consent to the passing of both of these > > proposals. > > out of interest, does 'Aye' count as that? Dunno. I've been pushing vaguely for a formal voting procedure since we started, but everyone else seems happy with the current arrangement. EE From mikec@mxtelecom.com Thu Sep 30 17:48:34 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD46c-00051z-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:48:34 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:43996 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD46V-0001sw-Vv (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:48:28 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CD46P-0002Zq-UR for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:48:21 +0100 Message-ID: <415C38CE.9040203@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Notices of consent References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <415C22CB.2070301@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <415C22CB.2070301@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 17:49:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:48:14 +0100 Stuart Moore wrote: > These have now passed: > > Notice of Consent: This is a Gold coloured notice of consent, to state > that the following rule has been agreed: > > "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" > > Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with > The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account > consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with > balance zero. Balances will be looked after by the Chief Cashier, who > should publish a breakdown of balances and transaction history for each > day. The post of Chief Cashier will be a Ministry post, should this > phrase have any meaning in the game. > > This is a green coloured notice of consent, to state that the following > rule has been agreed: > > "A job? What's that then?" > > Each member of the list of voters will have their BANK accounts > increased by one currency unit at midnight each night. > > This is a black coloured notice of consent (with off-black writing for > those who care) to state that the following rule has been agreed: > > "Who's the banker in the black?" > > The Chief Cashier will be Stuart Moore > > About time to bring this up. It also affects a lot of NoCs from Jonathan. According to "The Rule Of Girls", NOcs must explicitly state what colour paper they are printed on. None of the NoCs in this document, or any proposed by Jonathan are therefore valid. Mike From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 17:48:57 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD46z-000533-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:48:57 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:54682) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD3zs-00001O-0u (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:41:36 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CD3zr-0004Po-W4 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:41:36 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposals -- I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land && I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.180.134] In-Reply-To: <415C2720.8070808@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <415C2720.8070808@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 17:49:06 2004 X-Original-Date: 30 Sep 2004 17:41:35 +0100 On Sep 30 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Aye - although I'm wondering if we're cluttering up the rules with these > ministry posts and definitions - possibly we move the list of ministry > posts and their rolls elsewhere (create a "Mutability of the Ministry" > rule similar to the Mutability of the Rules one, possibly allowing for > impeachment I don't mind keeping the definitions of Ministry roles in the rules, personally, but it would be nice to eliminate the rules saying "the Minister of X shall be Y". Feel free to propose an alternate election procedure. EE From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 17:55:49 2004 Received: from ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.131]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD4Dd-0005OG-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:55:49 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:57561) by ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.131]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD4DW-0003b9-AX (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:55:42 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CD4DW-0007Xh-9T for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:55:42 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Notices of consent X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.180.134] In-Reply-To: <415C38CE.9040203@mxtelecom.com> Message-ID: References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <415C22CB.2070301@cam.ac.uk> <415C38CE.9040203@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 17:56:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 30 Sep 2004 17:55:42 +0100 On Sep 30 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > About time to bring this up. It also affects a lot of NoCs from Jonathan. > > According to "The Rule Of Girls", NOcs must explicitly state what colour > paper they are printed on. None of the NoCs in this document, or any > proposed by Jonathan are therefore valid. I note, however, that all the rule changes on which Jonathan has issued a NoC have nonetheless been made, as I declared them to be part of the rules in Imperial Proclamation #1 yesterday. Whether these Notices are valid is another matter; it depends on whether describing a notice as being a particular colour implies that the paper is that colour or not. EE From mikec@mxtelecom.com Thu Sep 30 18:04:23 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD4Lv-0005z3-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:04:23 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:44216 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD4Lr-0000Y8-KF (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:04:19 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CD4LE-00034Q-08 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:03:40 +0100 Message-ID: <415C3C66.9010307@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Notices of consent References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <415C22CB.2070301@cam.ac.uk> <415C38CE.9040203@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 18:05:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:03:34 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Sep 30 2004, Mike Cripps wrote: > >> About time to bring this up. It also affects a lot of NoCs from Jonathan. >> >> According to "The Rule Of Girls", NOcs must explicitly state what >> colour paper they are printed on. None of the NoCs in this document, >> or any proposed by Jonathan are therefore valid. > > > I note, however, that all the rule changes on which Jonathan has issued > a NoC have nonetheless been made, as I declared them to be part of the > rules in Imperial Proclamation #1 yesterday. Whether these Notices are > valid is another matter; it depends on whether describing a notice as > being a particular colour implies that the paper is that colour or not. > > EE > Oh indeed, I was merely warning him for the future ;) From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 30 22:48:01 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD8mP-0002CE-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:48:01 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:50415) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD8mI-00015W-Tm (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:47:54 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CD8mH-0000R7-00; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:47:53 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD8mC-0007Vd-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:47:48 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Summary 04/09/30 Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 22:49:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:47:48 +0100 Any of these rules will pass by autoadoption if they have no withheld consents: ------ The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, except those which mention it by name. -- Consent: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok, Madeleine, Stumo, Mike, Dunky Withheld: Carrie (based on uncertainty about the matter of rules merely referencing others rather than explicitly overriding them) ------ The Rule of Self-Image The game shall have a name, which shall be "Terrapin Nomic". -- Consent: JJ, adam, dok, Mike, Martin, Madeleine, Maz, Dunky Withheld: Carrie, Stumo ------ Twice the fun; harf the harf! A proposed rules change may be described as harfy. A proposed rules change can only become harfy if: a) No other proposed rules change is harfy. b) The Harfharfer declares that it is harfy. c) It was not proposed by the current Harfharfer. If a harfy rules change takes place then the following events happen: a) The entity which proposed the rules change gains one chocolate biscuit. b) The entity which proposed the rules change becomes the Harfharfer; the previous Harfharfer ceases to be the Harfharfer. c) If the rule change created a rule, then that rule may also be described as harfy. If there is no harfy rules change for three days, but there exist non-harfy proposed rules changes for that entire period, then the Harfharfer is guilty of the Crime of Hogging the Harf. The standard punishment for the Crime of Hogging the Harf shall be confiscation of two chocolate biscuits. Adam Biltcliffe becomes the Harfharfer; The Rule of Girls may be described as harfy; and this paragraph is deleted from the rules. -- Proposer: Madeleine Consent: adam, JJ, dok, Maz, Dunky Withheld: Mike, Carrie ------ But I can't hear it! /* -- REM, Radio Song */ Any text in a rule between C-style comment delimiters; as demonstrated above; has no rules effect, and exists only as a comment -- Proposer: Madeleine Consent: JJ, Maz, Mike, Dunky Withheld: adam, dok ------ Bored Of Being Board There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). -- Proposer: Martin Consent: JJ, Stumo, adam, Carrie, Madeleine, dok, Maz, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ Insufficient Notices Any voting entity who creates a document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus which is not in fact valid shall be guilty of the crime of Taking Insufficient Notice. -- Proposer: adam Consent: Stumo, dok, JJ, Madeleine, Maz, Mike, Dunky ------ I propose changing the wording of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. to: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from each such entity that will be affected differently to all other such entities and all but at most one other such entity, and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. -- Proposer: JJ Consent: Madeleine, Maz, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ **** Proposals after this have times of Assumed Consent noted **** ------ House of Cards A Pack of Cards has 42 cards; consisting of eight ranks; 78ATKQJ9; in each of five suits; BFGKP; and two Jokers. The ranks have the following names: 7 Seven 8 Six A Ace T Ten K King Q Queen J Jack 9 Nine The suits have the following names: B Bombs F Fridges G Guns K Knives P Poisons The Jokers are: The Umpire The Cop -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 00:40:09 2004 Consent: Adam, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ The Rule of Names The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of more than half of the List of Voters, and strictly more support than every other name will become the Name of the Game and any other Name Proposals shall be dropped. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:09:16 2004 Consent: Adam, Dunky Withheld: Carrie, Mike ------ Create a Rule as follows Dictionary Additions 1. Add the following definitions to the Dictionary, then remove this rule from the ruleset: C. = unit of Currency triangle = unit of distance on the Board The Grid = The Board MiniTrue = the Ministry post 'Minister of Truth' MiniFree = the Ministry post 'Minister of Freedom' -- Proposer: JJ Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ Sociability Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the same are Friendly. Any player whose location is at least 4 triangles from all other players (under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. -- Proposer: JJ Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ ...I wandered expensively as a bird... 2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at any time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, informing the other players of this fact and their new location. -- Proposer: JJ Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ Arbitration In the event of something having to be chosen arbitrarily then any person who has to harf that thing may make the choice by whatever means they deem appropriate. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:23 2004 Withheld: Adam, Mike ------ Hanging Chad All players shall have unique, positive, integer, reference numbers. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:33 2004 Consent: Adam, JJ, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ It's easier than learning your ABC Every player shall number their proposals. Proposal numbers shall be of the form a.b; where a shall be the unique reference number of the player, and b shall be a positive integer chosen such that: a) a.b is unique b) b is strictly larger than every other b that that player has ever used for a proposal number. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:27 2004 Withheld: Adam, Mike ------ Rule five. Once the stupid notice of consensus for now this rule is issued eventually, new rules passed stand, providing, however, every fifth word (not including words in the email title) is considered not ignored, to exist if the Akanomic rule contains the word I "rule" in its title. Remember, This rule only applies blindly to itself and rules not containing higher numbers than three it. This affects itself immediately under the interpretation it suddenly takes after every fifth written word, is removed. -- Proposer: Dunky Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:06:23 2004 Withheld: Mike, Carrie ------ Clerk of the Vatican The Ministry shall contain a post called the Clerk of the Vatican. The duties of the Clerk of the Vatican shall include maintaining and making publically available a list of entities who are willing to judge disputes over the interpretation of the rules or gamestate. -- Proposer: Adam Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 Consent: JJ, Wild Card, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ Judgement Procedure If a member of the List of Voters wishes to assert the validity of a claim which refers solely to the rules or gamestate, that entity make invoke the Judgement Procedure by publically claiming to be invoking the Judgement of the Pope and supplying the statement whose validity is under question. The invoking entity may also present an argument suporting the statement. -- Proposer: Adam Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 Consent: JJ, Wild Card, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ White Smoke When an entity invokes the Judgement of the Pope, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to select an entity to act as Pope in the resolution of that claim. This selection shall be performed by uniform random selection from the set of all entities which: a) have informed the Clerk of the Vatican that they are willing to act as Pope, and not subsequently retracted that statement b) are not considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV c) are not the entity invoking the Judgement of the Pope If this set is empty, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to cause it to cease being so. -- Proposer: Adam Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 Consent: JJ, Wild Card, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ Papal Edicts When the Judgement of the Pope has been invoked and the Clerk of the Vatican has selected an entity to act as Pope, the Pope may pass judgement on the claim. Legal judgements shall be: TRUE if the Pope believes the claim to be true with respect to all aspects of the current state of the game FALSE if the Pope believes the claim not to be true with respect to all aspects of the current state of the game Either TRUE or FALSE if the Pope believes the claim to be ambiguous with respect to all aspects of the current state of the game, depending on the Pope's beliefs about the original intent of the rules and the entities which have acted on the game, which interpretation makes more sense and which interpretation will lead to a more enjoyable game AN OFFENCE AGAINST GOD if the Pope believes that the invocation of judgement was not correctly made or that it would be otherwise inappropriate to pass judgement When the Pope rules a claim TRUE or FALSE, that ruling shall be used to determine future interpretations of the rules and gamestate. -- Proposer: Adam Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 Consent: JJ, Wild Card, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ Change every instance of the word "unambiguous" in the rules to "explicit". -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:02:08 2004 Consent: Adam, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ Public Records If a member of the list of voters wishes a view expressed by them to have an effect on the game, it must be recorded by sending an email to the email list. The view shall be considered to have been expressed at the time the email was sent, as recorded by the email list archives. If a view has not been expressed in this manner, it may be ignored by members of the list of voters at their leisure. -- Proposer: Stumo Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:10:24 2004 Consent: Adam, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ The Rule That Won't Exist For Long This rule overrides Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules. If ever this rule is in force, the following definitions shall be added to the Definitions Dictionary: ENTITY - Anything having existence in the real (extranomic) world. RESON - Any construction of the game which has existence in the gameworld defined by the rules. THINGY - synonymous with RESON The following changes shall then be applied to the rules: All occurrences of the word 'entity' in Rule 1, Existence of the Game shall be replaced with 'reson'. The sentence 'This list shall be known as the List of Voters' shall be appended to Rule 3, List of Voters. The Rule That Won't Exist For Long shall be deleted from the rules. -- Proposer: Adam Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 17:57:14 2004 Consent: JJ, Stumo, Dunky Withheld: Mike ------ Thats the Name of the Game The game shall have a name and it shall be "Astronomic" -- Proposer: Carrie Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 Consent: Wild Card, Mike, Adam, Dunky Withheld: Stumo ----- Name that Game The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bowling for Buzzards" -- Proposer: Carrie Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 Consent: Stumo, Wild Card, Dunky Withheld: Mike, Adam ----- Thrid Time Lucky The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bobbing for Snapping Turtles" -- Proposer: Carrie Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 Consent: Wild Card, Dunky Withheld: Stumo, Mike, Adam ----- Community Chest There exists a class of object called Community Chest Cards. Community Chest Cards may be created at whim out of the ether as required by the rules. When a Community Chest Card is played, it is destroyed. There exists a dictionary of Community Chest Card types, and their actions. Initially this is empty. If a rule does not specify what type of Community Chest Card is created then they are created at random; with an equal likelyhood of each type. Unless otherwise specified by the rules the type of any Community Chest Card is a secret, revealed only to the player who possesses it. Community Chest Card actions have the force of rule. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 16:17:13 2004 Consent: Stumo, adam, Carrie, Dunky, Mike ------ I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land The Duty of the Minister of Perspicuity shall be to keep a record of important game events; viz to be a game historian. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Sun Oct 3 15:24:11 2004 Consent: Adam, Mike, Stumo ------ I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind Initially the Minister of Perspicuity shall be Wild Card. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Sun Oct 3 15:24:11 2004 Consent: Adam, Mike, Stumo ------ Summary finished by Wild Card Thu Sep 30 22:47:17 BST 2004 From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Sep 30 22:57:23 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD8vT-0002TO-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:57:23 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:50913) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD8vQ-0007yd-K7 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:57:20 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CD8vN-0001aa-00; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:57:17 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD8vF-0007Zk-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:57:09 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] *CORRECTED* Summary 04/09/30 Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 22:58:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:57:09 +0100 This is the corrected version... Any of these rules will pass by autoadoption if they have no withheld consents: ------ The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, except those which mention it by name. -- Consent: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok, Madeleine, Stumo, Mike Withheld: Carrie (based on uncertainty about the matter of rules merely referencing others rather than explicitly overriding them) ------ The Rule of Self-Image The game shall have a name, which shall be "Terrapin Nomic". -- Consent: JJ, adam, dok, Mike, Martin, Madeleine, Maz Withheld: Carrie, Stumo ------ Twice the fun; harf the harf! A proposed rules change may be described as harfy. A proposed rules change can only become harfy if: a) No other proposed rules change is harfy. b) The Harfharfer declares that it is harfy. c) It was not proposed by the current Harfharfer. If a harfy rules change takes place then the following events happen: a) The entity which proposed the rules change gains one chocolate biscuit. b) The entity which proposed the rules change becomes the Harfharfer; the previous Harfharfer ceases to be the Harfharfer. c) If the rule change created a rule, then that rule may also be described as harfy. If there is no harfy rules change for three days, but there exist non-harfy proposed rules changes for that entire period, then the Harfharfer is guilty of the Crime of Hogging the Harf. The standard punishment for the Crime of Hogging the Harf shall be confiscation of two chocolate biscuits. Adam Biltcliffe becomes the Harfharfer; The Rule of Girls may be described as harfy; and this paragraph is deleted from the rules. -- Proposer: Madeleine Consent: adam, JJ, dok, Maz Withheld: Mike, Carrie ------ But I can't hear it! /* -- REM, Radio Song */ Any text in a rule between C-style comment delimiters; as demonstrated above; has no rules effect, and exists only as a comment -- Proposer: Madeleine Consent: JJ, Maz, Mike, ahdok Withheld: adam ------ Bored Of Being Board There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). -- Proposer: Martin Consent: JJ, Stumo, adam, Carrie, Madeleine, dok, Maz, Mike ------ Insufficient Notices Any voting entity who creates a document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus which is not in fact valid shall be guilty of the crime of Taking Insufficient Notice. -- Proposer: adam Consent: Stumo, dok, JJ, Madeleine, Maz, Mike ------ I propose changing the wording of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. to: A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that proposal from each such entity that will be affected differently to all other such entities and all but at most one other such entity, and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. -- Proposer: JJ Consent: Madeleine, Maz, ahdok Withheld: Mike ------ **** Proposals after this have times of Assumed Consent noted **** ------ House of Cards A Pack of Cards has 42 cards; consisting of eight ranks; 78ATKQJ9; in each of five suits; BFGKP; and two Jokers. The ranks have the following names: 7 Seven 8 Six A Ace T Ten K King Q Queen J Jack 9 Nine The suits have the following names: B Bombs F Fridges G Guns K Knives P Poisons The Jokers are: The Umpire The Cop -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 00:40:09 2004 Consent: Adam, ahdok Withheld: Mike ------ The Rule of Names The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of more than half of the List of Voters, and strictly more support than every other name will become the Name of the Game and any other Name Proposals shall be dropped. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:09:16 2004 Consent: Adam, ahdok Withheld: Carrie, Mike ------ Create a Rule as follows Dictionary Additions 1. Add the following definitions to the Dictionary, then remove this rule from the ruleset: C. = unit of Currency triangle = unit of distance on the Board The Grid = The Board MiniTrue = the Ministry post 'Minister of Truth' MiniFree = the Ministry post 'Minister of Freedom' -- Proposer: JJ Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, ahdok Withheld: Mike ------ Sociability Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the same are Friendly. Any player whose location is at least 4 triangles from all other players (under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. -- Proposer: JJ Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, ahdok Withheld: Mike ------ ...I wandered expensively as a bird... 2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at any time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, informing the other players of this fact and their new location. -- Proposer: JJ Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, ahdok Withheld: Mike ------ Arbitration In the event of something having to be chosen arbitrarily then any person who has to harf that thing may make the choice by whatever means they deem appropriate. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:23 2004 Withheld: Adam, Mike ------ Hanging Chad All players shall have unique, positive, integer, reference numbers. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:33 2004 Consent: Adam, JJ, ahdok Withheld: Mike ------ It's easier than learning your ABC Every player shall number their proposals. Proposal numbers shall be of the form a.b; where a shall be the unique reference number of the player, and b shall be a positive integer chosen such that: a) a.b is unique b) b is strictly larger than every other b that that player has ever used for a proposal number. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:27 2004 Withheld: Adam, Mike ------ Rule five. Once the stupid notice of consensus for now this rule is issued eventually, new rules passed stand, providing, however, every fifth word (not including words in the email title) is considered not ignored, to exist if the Akanomic rule contains the word I "rule" in its title. Remember, This rule only applies blindly to itself and rules not containing higher numbers than three it. This affects itself immediately under the interpretation it suddenly takes after every fifth written word, is removed. -- Proposer: ahdok Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:06:23 2004 Withheld: Mike, Carrie ------ Clerk of the Vatican The Ministry shall contain a post called the Clerk of the Vatican. The duties of the Clerk of the Vatican shall include maintaining and making publically available a list of entities who are willing to judge disputes over the interpretation of the rules or gamestate. -- Proposer: Adam Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 Consent: JJ, Wild Card, ahdok Withheld: Mike ------ Judgement Procedure If a member of the List of Voters wishes to assert the validity of a claim which refers solely to the rules or gamestate, that entity make invoke the Judgement Procedure by publically claiming to be invoking the Judgement of the Pope and supplying the statement whose validity is under question. The invoking entity may also present an argument suporting the statement. -- Proposer: Adam Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 Consent: JJ, Wild Card, ahdok Withheld: Mike ------ White Smoke When an entity invokes the Judgement of the Pope, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to select an entity to act as Pope in the resolution of that claim. This selection shall be performed by uniform random selection from the set of all entities which: a) have informed the Clerk of the Vatican that they are willing to act as Pope, and not subsequently retracted that statement b) are not considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV c) are not the entity invoking the Judgement of the Pope If this set is empty, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to cause it to cease being so. -- Proposer: Adam Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 Consent: JJ, Wild Card, ahdok Withheld: Mike ------ Papal Edicts When the Judgement of the Pope has been invoked and the Clerk of the Vatican has selected an entity to act as Pope, the Pope may pass judgement on the claim. Legal judgements shall be: TRUE if the Pope believes the claim to be true with respect to all aspects of the current state of the game FALSE if the Pope believes the claim not to be true with respect to all aspects of the current state of the game Either TRUE or FALSE if the Pope believes the claim to be ambiguous with respect to all aspects of the current state of the game, depending on the Pope's beliefs about the original intent of the rules and the entities which have acted on the game, which interpretation makes more sense and which interpretation will lead to a more enjoyable game AN OFFENCE AGAINST GOD if the Pope believes that the invocation of judgement was not correctly made or that it would be otherwise inappropriate to pass judgement When the Pope rules a claim TRUE or FALSE, that ruling shall be used to determine future interpretations of the rules and gamestate. -- Proposer: Adam Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 Consent: JJ, Wild Card, ahdok Withheld: Mike ------ Change every instance of the word "unambiguous" in the rules to "explicit". -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:02:08 2004 Consent: Adam, ahdok Withheld: Mike ------ Public Records If a member of the list of voters wishes a view expressed by them to have an effect on the game, it must be recorded by sending an email to the email list. The view shall be considered to have been expressed at the time the email was sent, as recorded by the email list archives. If a view has not been expressed in this manner, it may be ignored by members of the list of voters at their leisure. -- Proposer: Stumo Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:10:24 2004 Consent: Adam, ahdok Withheld: Mike ------ The Rule That Won't Exist For Long This rule overrides Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules. If ever this rule is in force, the following definitions shall be added to the Definitions Dictionary: ENTITY - Anything having existence in the real (extranomic) world. RESON - Any construction of the game which has existence in the gameworld defined by the rules. THINGY - synonymous with RESON The following changes shall then be applied to the rules: All occurrences of the word 'entity' in Rule 1, Existence of the Game shall be replaced with 'reson'. The sentence 'This list shall be known as the List of Voters' shall be appended to Rule 3, List of Voters. The Rule That Won't Exist For Long shall be deleted from the rules. -- Proposer: Adam Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 17:57:14 2004 Consent: JJ, Stumo, ahdok Withheld: Mike ------ Thats the Name of the Game The game shall have a name and it shall be "Astronomic" -- Proposer: Carrie Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 Consent: Wild Card, Mike, Adam, ahdok Withheld: Stumo ----- Name that Game The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bowling for Buzzards" -- Proposer: Carrie Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 Consent: Stumo, Wild Card, ahdok Withheld: Mike, Adam ----- Thrid Time Lucky The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bobbing for Snapping Turtles" -- Proposer: Carrie Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 Consent: Wild Card, ahdok Withheld: Stumo, Mike, Adam ----- Community Chest There exists a class of object called Community Chest Cards. Community Chest Cards may be created at whim out of the ether as required by the rules. When a Community Chest Card is played, it is destroyed. There exists a dictionary of Community Chest Card types, and their actions. Initially this is empty. If a rule does not specify what type of Community Chest Card is created then they are created at random; with an equal likelyhood of each type. Unless otherwise specified by the rules the type of any Community Chest Card is a secret, revealed only to the player who possesses it. Community Chest Card actions have the force of rule. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 16:17:13 2004 Consent: Stumo, adam, Carrie, ahdok, Mike ------ I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land The Duty of the Minister of Perspicuity shall be to keep a record of important game events; viz to be a game historian. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Sun Oct 3 15:24:11 2004 Consent: Adam, Mike, Stumo ------ I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind Initially the Minister of Perspicuity shall be Wild Card. -- Proposer: Wild Card Consent Assumed: Sun Oct 3 15:24:11 2004 Consent: Adam, Mike, Stumo ------ Summary finished by Wild Card Thu Sep 30 22:47:17 BST 2004 From mikec@mxtelecom.com Thu Sep 30 23:17:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD9Ea-0003MS-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:17:08 +0100 Received: from canberra.wapmx.com ([217.207.98.114]:60849) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD9EW-0008Lt-H1 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:17:04 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117] helo=localhost ident=500) by canberra.wapmx.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1CD9BT-0005YD-1p for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:13:55 +0100 Received: from i-83-67-5-120.freedom2surf.net (i-83-67-5-120.freedom2surf.net [83.67.5.120]) by base.mxtelecom.com (IMP) with HTTP for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:13:54 +0100 Message-ID: <1096582434.415c8522be895@base.mxtelecom.com> From: mikec@mxtelecom.com To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] *CORRECTED* Summary 04/09/30 - My Votes+Comments References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.4 X-Originating-IP: 83.67.5.120 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.178, NO_REAL_NAME 0.18) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 23:18:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:13:54 +0100 Quoting Jonathan David Amery : > ------ > Twice the fun; harf the harf! > > A proposed rules change may be described as harfy. > > A proposed rules change can only become harfy if: > a) No other proposed rules change is harfy. > b) The Harfharfer declares that it is harfy. > c) It was not proposed by the current Harfharfer. > > If a harfy rules change takes place then the following events happen: > a) The entity which proposed the rules change gains one chocolate biscuit. > b) The entity which proposed the rules change becomes the Harfharfer; > the previous Harfharfer ceases to be the Harfharfer. > c) If the rule change created a rule, then that rule may also be > described as harfy. > > If there is no harfy rules change for three days, but there exist > non-harfy proposed rules changes for that entire period, then the > Harfharfer is guilty of the Crime of Hogging the Harf. > > The standard punishment for the Crime of Hogging the Harf shall be > confiscation of two chocolate biscuits. > > Adam Biltcliffe becomes the Harfharfer; The Rule of Girls may be > described as harfy; and this paragraph is deleted from the rules. > -- > Proposer: Madeleine > Consent: adam, JJ, dok, Maz > Withheld: Mike, Carrie > Continue to withhold consent. I explicitly do not wish this rule to pass. > ------ > I propose changing the wording of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on > the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other > entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that > proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus > to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has > been reached. > > to: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on > the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other > entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that > proposal from each such entity that will be affected differently to all > other such entities and all but at most one other such entity, and then > posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue > upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. > -- > Proposer: JJ > Consent: Madeleine, Maz, ahdok > +Aye: Mike > > ------ > > **** Proposals after this have times of Assumed Consent noted **** > > ------ > House of Cards > > A Pack of Cards has 42 cards; consisting of eight ranks; 78ATKQJ9; in > each of five suits; BFGKP; and two Jokers. > > The ranks have the following names: > > 7 Seven > 8 Six > A Ace > T Ten > K King > Q Queen > J Jack > 9 Nine > > The suits have the following names: > > B Bombs > F Fridges > G Guns > K Knives > P Poisons > > The Jokers are: > > The Umpire > The Cop > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 00:40:09 2004 > Consent: Adam, ahdok > Withheld: Mike > Keep withheld. It's not assassins nomic after all, even though we're all playing it. > ------ > The Rule of Names > > The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player > may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of > more than half of the List of Voters, and strictly more support than > every other name will become the Name of the Game and any other Name > Proposals shall be dropped. > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:09:16 2004 > Consent: Adam, ahdok +Aye: Mike > Withheld: Carrie > > ------ > Create a Rule as follows > > Dictionary Additions 1. > > Add the following definitions to the Dictionary, then remove this rule from > the ruleset: > C. = unit of Currency > triangle = unit of distance on the Board > The Grid = The Board > MiniTrue = the Ministry post 'Minister of Truth' > MiniFree = the Ministry post 'Minister of Freedom' > -- > Proposer: JJ > Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 > Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, ahdok +Aye: Mike (sorry, don't remember this one at all) > Sociability > > Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the same are > Friendly. > Any player whose location is at least 4 triangles from all other players > (under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. > -- > Proposer: JJ > Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 > Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, ahdok +Aye: Mike (ditto) > ------ > ...I wandered expensively as a bird... > > 2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at any > time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, informing the > other players of this fact and their new location. > -- > Proposer: JJ > Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 > Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, ahdok +Aye: Mike > ------ > Arbitration > > In the event of something having to be chosen arbitrarily then any > person who has to harf that thing may make the choice by whatever > means they deem appropriate. > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:23 2004 > Withheld: Adam, Mike Keep Withheld. > > ------ > Hanging Chad > > All players shall have unique, positive, integer, reference numbers. > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:33 2004 > Consent: Adam, JJ, ahdok > Withheld: Mike > Keep withheld - the wording is too vague. I can have a _lot_ of positive, unique, integer numbers ;) > ------ > It's easier than learning your ABC > > Every player shall number their proposals. Proposal numbers shall be > of the form a.b; where a shall be the unique reference number of the > player, and b shall be a positive integer chosen such that: > > a) a.b is unique > b) b is strictly larger than every other b that that player has ever > used for a proposal number. > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:27 2004 > Withheld: Adam, Mike Given I've withheld for the reference number one, got to keep withheld. > > ------ > Rule five. > > Once the stupid notice of consensus for now this rule is issued eventually, > new rules passed stand, providing, however, every fifth word (not including > words in the email title) is considered not ignored, to exist if the > Akanomic rule contains the word I "rule" in its title. Remember, This rule > only applies blindly to itself and rules not containing higher numbers than > three it. This affects itself immediately under the interpretation it > suddenly takes after every fifth written word, is removed. > -- > Proposer: ahdok > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:06:23 2004 > Withheld: Mike, Carrie Withheld. As the rule isn't in force yet, this is blatantly gobbledegook. > > ------ > Clerk of the Vatican > > The Ministry shall contain a post called the Clerk of the Vatican. The > duties of the Clerk of the Vatican shall include maintaining and making > publically available a list of entities who are willing to judge disputes > over the interpretation of the rules or gamestate. > -- > Proposer: Adam > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 > Consent: JJ, Wild Card, ahdok +Aye: Mike (I'm sure I voted in favour of this one earlier today) > > ------ > Judgement Procedure > > If a member of the List of Voters wishes to assert the validity of a claim > which refers solely to the rules or gamestate, that entity make invoke the > Judgement Procedure by publically claiming to be invoking the Judgement of > the Pope and supplying the statement whose validity is under question. The > invoking entity may also present an argument suporting the statement. > -- > Proposer: Adam > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 > Consent: JJ, Wild Card, ahdok +Aye: Mike (ditto) > ------ > White Smoke > > When an entity invokes the Judgement of the Pope, it shall be the duty of > the Clerk of the Vatican to select an entity to act as Pope in the > resolution of that claim. This selection shall be performed by uniform > random selection from the set of all entities which: > a) have informed the Clerk of the Vatican that they are willing to act as > Pope, and not subsequently retracted that statement > b) are not considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV > c) are not the entity invoking the Judgement of the Pope If this set is > empty, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to cause it to > cease being so. > -- > Proposer: Adam > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 > Consent: JJ, Wild Card, ahdok +Aye: Mike (ditto) > ------ > Papal Edicts > > When the Judgement of the Pope has been invoked and the Clerk of the > Vatican has selected an entity to act as Pope, the Pope may pass judgement > on the claim. > > Legal judgements shall be: > TRUE if the Pope believes the claim to be true with respect to all aspects > of the current state of the game > FALSE if the Pope believes the claim not to be true with respect to all > aspects of the current state of the game > Either TRUE or FALSE if the Pope believes the claim to be ambiguous with > respect to all aspects of the current state of the game, depending on the > Pope's beliefs about the original intent of the rules and the entities > which have acted on the game, which interpretation makes more sense and > which interpretation will lead to a more enjoyable game > AN OFFENCE AGAINST GOD if the Pope believes that the invocation of > judgement was not correctly made or that it would be otherwise > inappropriate to pass judgement > > When the Pope rules a claim TRUE or FALSE, that ruling shall be used to > determine future interpretations of the rules and gamestate. > -- > Proposer: Adam > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 > Consent: JJ, Wild Card, ahdok +Aye: Mike (ditto) > ------ > Change every instance of the word "unambiguous" in the rules to "explicit". > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:02:08 2004 > Consent: Adam, ahdok > Withheld: Mike > Umm, I'll need to look at the ruleset totally again for that. Keep withheld for now, may revise. > ------ > Public Records > > If a member of the list of voters wishes a view expressed by them to > have an effect on the game, it must be recorded by sending an email to > the email list. The view shall be considered to have been expressed at > the time the email was sent, as recorded by the email list archives. If > a view has not been expressed in this manner, it may be ignored by > members of the list of voters at their leisure. > -- > Proposer: Stumo > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:10:24 2004 > Consent: Adam, ahdok +Aye: Mike > ------ > The Rule That Won't Exist For Long > > This rule overrides Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules. > > If ever this rule is in force, the following definitions shall be added to > the Definitions Dictionary: > > ENTITY - Anything having existence in the real (extranomic) world. RESON - > Any construction of the game which has existence in the gameworld defined > by the rules. THINGY - synonymous with RESON > > The following changes shall then be applied to the rules: > > All occurrences of the word 'entity' in Rule 1, Existence of the Game shall > be replaced with 'reson'. > > The sentence 'This list shall be known as the List of Voters' shall be > appended to Rule 3, List of Voters. > > The Rule That Won't Exist For Long shall be deleted from the rules. > -- > Proposer: Adam > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 17:57:14 2004 > Consent: JJ, Stumo, ahdok +Aye: Mike > > Summary finished by Wild Card Thu Sep 30 22:47:17 BST 2004 > Voting finished by Mike Cripps Thu Sep 30 23:13:?? BST 2004 Mike From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 23:53:28 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD9nk-0004on-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:53:28 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:41479) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD9nh-0001vp-92 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:53:25 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CD9nh-00061K-83 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:53:25 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] *CORRECTED* Summary 04/09/30 X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.180.12] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 23:54:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 30 Sep 2004 23:53:23 +0100 I'm pretty sure I objected (read: withheld consent) to the following proposal: > ------ > I propose changing the wording of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity > named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all > other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent > to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of > Consensus to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus > of Opinion has been reached. > > to: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity > named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all > other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent > to that proposal from each such entity that will be affected differently > to all other such entities and all but at most one other such entity, and > then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing > the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. -- Proposer: > JJ Consent: Madeleine, Maz, ahdok Withheld: Mike > ------ Also, Mike has now given his consent for all the proposals relating to the Pope and the Vatican. And does anyone else have anything to say about the legitimacy or otherwise of Stuart's Notices of Consensus for the banking rules? Whether or not they've passed will affect both the numbering of future additions to the ruleset and the amount of money in our BANK accounts. EE From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 23:55:05 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD9pJ-0004sL-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:55:05 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:39736) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD9pB-0005aq-CP (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:54:57 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CD9pA-0007PR-Dk for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:54:56 +0000 Message-ID: <415C8ECB.1080701@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] *CORRECTED* Summary 04/09/30 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 23:56:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:55:07 +0100 This drove mozilla wild when replying, it detected a -- (dash-dash-space) line half way through and decided everything after it was a signature and not included in the reply. So apologies for any weird formatting in my reply. Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Twice the fun; harf the harf! > > A proposed rules change may be described as harfy. > > A proposed rules change can only become harfy if: a) No other > proposed rules change is harfy. b) The Harfharfer declares that it is > harfy. c) It was not proposed by the current Harfharfer. > > If a harfy rules change takes place then the following events happen: > a) The entity which proposed the rules change gains one chocolate > biscuit. b) The entity which proposed the rules change becomes the > Harfharfer; the previous Harfharfer ceases to be the Harfharfer. c) > If the rule change created a rule, then that rule may also be > described as harfy. > > If there is no harfy rules change for three days, but there exist > non-harfy proposed rules changes for that entire period, then the > Harfharfer is guilty of the Crime of Hogging the Harf. > > The standard punishment for the Crime of Hogging the Harf shall be > confiscation of two chocolate biscuits. > > Adam Biltcliffe becomes the Harfharfer; The Rule of Girls may be > described as harfy; and this paragraph is deleted from the rules. -- > Proposer: Madeleine Consent: adam, JJ, dok, Maz Withheld: Mike, > Carrie Aye > I propose changing the wording of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity > named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to > all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous > consent to that proposal from each such entity and then posts a > public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue > upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. > > to: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity > named on the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to > all other entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous > consent to that proposal from each such entity that will be affected > differently to all other such entities and all but at most one other > such entity, and then posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other > members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has been > reached. -- Proposer: JJ Consent: Madeleine, Maz, ahdok Withheld: > Mike Nay ------ Hanging Chad Nay Rule five. Nay ------ Thats the Name of the Game The game shall > have a name and it shall be "Astronomic" -- Proposer: Carrie Consent > Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 Consent: Wild Card, Mike, Adam, > ahdok Withheld: Stumo I now grant consent, since everyone else seemed to prefer this one From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 30 23:57:37 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD9rl-0004xm-00 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:57:37 +0100 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]:42476) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD9rV-0005uU-El (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:57:21 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CD9rT-0008Hi-Up for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:57:20 +0000 Message-ID: <415C8F5B.5040702@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Notices of consent Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 30 23:58:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:57:31 +0100 These have now passed: Notice of Consent: This is a notice of consent printed on Gold paper, to state that the following rule has been agreed: "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with balance zero. Balances will be looked after by the Chief Cashier, who should publish a breakdown of balances and transaction history for each day. The post of Chief Cashier will be a Ministry post, should this phrase have any meaning in the game. This is a notice of consent printed on green paper, to state that the following rule has been agreed: "A job? What's that then?" Each member of the list of voters will have their BANK accounts increased by one currency unit at midnight each night. This is a notice of consent printed on black paper (with off-black writing for those who care) to state that the following rule has been agreed: "Who's the banker in the black?" The Chief Cashier will be Stuart Moore From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 01 00:03:54 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD9xq-0005Kd-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:03:54 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:42621) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD9xo-0000ig-2A (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:03:52 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CD9xo-0007AL-1A for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:03:52 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.180.12] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] a modest proposal Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 00:04:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 01 Oct 2004 00:03:51 +0100 Just to keep things exciting, a new rule proposal: ---------- Congratulations! Any player issuing a Notice of Consensus which results in the creation of a rule whose full name (as defined by Rule 6, The Rule of Structured Names) begins with the string "Rule 50" shall receive 50 units of Currency. ---------- EE From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 01 00:05:46 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CD9ze-0005OY-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:05:46 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:47943) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CD9zb-0007IE-03 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:05:43 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CD9zW-000780-7Q for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:05:38 +0000 Message-ID: <415C914D.7040108@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] a modest proposal References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 00:06:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:05:49 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Just to keep things exciting, a new rule proposal: > > ---------- > Congratulations! > > Any player issuing a Notice of Consensus which results in the creation > of a rule whose full name (as defined by Rule 6, The Rule of Structured > Names) begins with the string "Rule 50" shall receive 50 units of > Currency. ---------- It'll keep things moving until about rule 47/48 when people will start waiting... Ah what the hell, it's only money. Aye From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 01 00:08:46 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDA2Y-0005W9-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:08:46 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:42968) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDA2V-0006yV-0v (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:08:43 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CDA2U-0007ks-WD for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:08:43 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Notices of consent X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.180.12] In-Reply-To: <415C8F5B.5040702@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <415C8F5B.5040702@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 00:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 01 Oct 2004 00:08:42 +0100 On Sep 30 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > These have now passed: > > Notice of Consent: This is a notice of consent printed on Gold paper, to > state that the following rule has been agreed: I really, really hate to have to mention this, but the rules do not refer to such entity as a 'notice of consent'. You probably meant 'notice of consensus', which is of course a name with an entirely different meaning. EE From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 01 00:12:10 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDA5q-0005by-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:12:10 +0100 Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.141]:56131) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDA5j-0001sj-Fh (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:12:03 +0100 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CDA5g-0001d9-UJ for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:12:01 +0000 Message-ID: <415C92CB.5060206@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Notices of consent References: <4153FDDA.3050802@cam.ac.uk> <415C8F5B.5040702@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <415C8F5B.5040702@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [82.68.48.166] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.185, AWL 0.18) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 00:13:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:12:11 +0100 Sod it, I'm heading down the pub. Gah, pubs closed, except for scotland and I can't really make it there in time. Right. Stick this in your pipe and smoke it. Stuart Moore wrote: > These have now passed: > > Notice of Consensus: This is a notice of consent printed on Gold paper, to > state > that the following rule has been agreed: > > "Screw you, Anti Capitalists" > > Each member of the list of voters will have an associated account with > The "Bank of Anarchic Neurotic Kleptomaniacs" (The BANK). This account > consists of a non-negative integer of Currency. All accounts begin with > balance zero. Balances will be looked after by the Chief Cashier, who > should publish a breakdown of balances and transaction history for each > day. The post of Chief Cashier will be a Ministry post, should this > phrase have any meaning in the game. > > This is a notice of consensus printed on green paper, to state that the > following > rule has been agreed: > > "A job? What's that then?" > > Each member of the list of voters will have their BANK accounts > increased by one currency unit at midnight each night. > > This is a notice of consensus printed on black paper (with off-black > writing for > those who care) to state that the following rule has been agreed: > > "Who's the banker in the black?" > > The Chief Cashier will be Stuart Moore > From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 01 01:05:22 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDAvK-0007GV-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:05:22 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:46070) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.130]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDAvG-0005b2-JI (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:05:18 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CDAlz-0003ID-Vk for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:55:43 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.180.12] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] NoCs: five more rules Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 01:06:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 01 Oct 2004 00:55:43 +0100 This is a Notice of Consensus, printed upon white paper, to inform all players that the addition of the following rule has now achieved Consensus of Opinion via Assumed Consent and will therefore take effect as of now: ---------- Insufficient Notices Any voting entity who creates a document purporting to be a Notice of Consensus which is not in fact valid shall be guilty of the crime of Taking Insufficient Notice. ---------- This is a Notice of Consensus, printed upon white paper, to inform all players that the addition of the following rule has now achieved Consensus of Opinion via Assumed Consent and will therefore take effect as of now: ---------- Clerk of the Vatican The Ministry shall contain a post called the Clerk of the Vatican. The duties of the Clerk of the Vatican shall include maintaining and making publically available a list of entities who are willing to judge disputes over the interpretation of the rules or gamestate. ---------- This is a Notice of Consensus, printed upon white paper, to inform all players that the addition of the following rule has now achieved Consensus of Opinion via Assumed Consent and will therefore take effect as of now: ---------- Judgement Procedure If a member of the List of Voters wishes to assert the validity of a claim which refers solely to the rules or gamestate, that entity make invoke the Judgement Procedure by publically claiming to be invoking the Judgement of the Pope and supplying the statement whose validity is under question. The invoking entity may also present an argument suporting the statement. ---------- This is a Notice of Consensus, printed upon white paper, to inform all players that the addition of the following rule has now achieved Consensus of Opinion via Assumed Consent and will therefore take effect as of now: ---------- White Smoke When an entity invokes the Judgement of the Pope, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to select an entity to act as Pope in the resolution of that claim. This selection shall be performed by uniform random selection from the set of all entities which: a) have informed the Clerk of the Vatican that they are willing to act as Pope, and not subsequently retracted that statement b) are not considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV c) are not the entity invoking the Judgement of the Pope If this set is empty, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to cause it to cease being so. ---------- This is a Notice of Consensus, printed upon white paper, to inform all players that the addition of the following rule has now achieved Consensus of Opinion via Assumed Consent and will therefore take effect as of now: ---------- Papal Edicts When the Judgement of the Pope has been invoked and the Clerk of the Vatican has selected an entity to act as Pope, the Pope may pass judgement on the claim. Legal judgements shall be: TRUE if the Pope believes the claim to be true with respect to all aspects of the current state of the game FALSE if the Pope believes the claim not to be true with respect to all aspects of the current state of the game Either TRUE or FALSE if the Pope believes the claim to be ambiguous with respect to all aspects of the current state of the game, depending on the Pope's beliefs about the original intent of the rules and the entities which have acted on the game, which interpretation makes more sense and which interpretation will lead to a more enjoyable game AN OFFENCE AGAINST GOD if the Pope believes that the invocation of judgement was not correctly made or that it would be otherwise inappropriate to pass judgement When the Pope rules a claim TRUE or FALSE, that ruling shall be used to determine future interpretations of the rules and gamestate. ---------- EE From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 01 01:27:51 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDBH5-0007mf-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:27:51 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:47369) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDBH0-00064k-AB (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:27:46 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CDBH0-0005uu-99 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:27:46 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.180.12] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] volunteers? Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 01:28:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 01 Oct 2004 01:27:45 +0100 Would anyone like to be Clerk of the Vatican? EE From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Fri Oct 01 09:56:20 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDJDA-0004V8-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:56:20 +0100 Received: from bay24-f14.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.64]:4894 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDJD4-0006Fk-Ae (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:56:14 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 01:56:01 -0700 Received: from 131.111.8.103 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:55:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [131.111.8.103] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] *CORRECTED* Summary 04/09/30 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Oct 2004 08:56:01.0692 (UTC) FILETIME=[79FE3DC0:01C4A794] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 09:57:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:55:54 +0100 > >This is the corrected version... > >Any of these rules will pass by autoadoption if they have no withheld >consents: > >------ >The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: > >A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by >name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, >except those which mention it by name. >-- >Consent: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok, Madeleine, Stumo, Mike >Withheld: Carrie (based on uncertainty about the matter of rules merely >referencing others rather than explicitly overriding them) > >------ >The Rule of Self-Image > >The game shall have a name, which shall be "Terrapin Nomic". >-- >Consent: JJ, adam, dok, Mike, Martin, Madeleine, Maz >Withheld: Carrie, Stumo > >------ >Twice the fun; harf the harf! > >A proposed rules change may be described as harfy. > >A proposed rules change can only become harfy if: >a) No other proposed rules change is harfy. >b) The Harfharfer declares that it is harfy. >c) It was not proposed by the current Harfharfer. > >If a harfy rules change takes place then the following events happen: >a) The entity which proposed the rules change gains one chocolate biscuit. >b) The entity which proposed the rules change becomes the Harfharfer; >the previous Harfharfer ceases to be the Harfharfer. >c) If the rule change created a rule, then that rule may also be >described as harfy. > >If there is no harfy rules change for three days, but there exist >non-harfy proposed rules changes for that entire period, then the >Harfharfer is guilty of the Crime of Hogging the Harf. > >The standard punishment for the Crime of Hogging the Harf shall be >confiscation of two chocolate biscuits. > >Adam Biltcliffe becomes the Harfharfer; The Rule of Girls may be >described as harfy; and this paragraph is deleted from the rules. >-- >Proposer: Madeleine >Consent: adam, JJ, dok, Maz >Withheld: Mike, Carrie > >------ >But I can't hear it! > >/* -- REM, Radio Song */ > >Any text in a rule between C-style comment delimiters; as demonstrated >above; has no rules effect, and exists only as a comment >-- >Proposer: Madeleine >Consent: JJ, Maz, Mike, ahdok >Withheld: adam > >------ >Bored Of Being Board > >There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of >Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of >entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If >at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The >Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). >-- >Proposer: Martin >Consent: JJ, Stumo, adam, Carrie, Madeleine, dok, Maz, Mike > >------ >Insufficient Notices > >Any voting entity who creates a document purporting to be a Notice of >Consensus which is not in fact valid shall be guilty of the crime of Taking >Insufficient Notice. >-- >Proposer: adam >Consent: Stumo, dok, JJ, Madeleine, Maz, Mike > >------ >I propose changing the wording of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: > >A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named >on >the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other >entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that >proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus >to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion >has >been reached. > >to: > >A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named >on >the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other >entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that >proposal from each such entity that will be affected differently to all >other such entities and all but at most one other such entity, and then >posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue >upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. >-- >Proposer: JJ >Consent: Madeleine, Maz, ahdok >Withheld: Mike > >------ > >**** Proposals after this have times of Assumed Consent noted **** > >------ >House of Cards > >A Pack of Cards has 42 cards; consisting of eight ranks; 78ATKQJ9; in >each of five suits; BFGKP; and two Jokers. > >The ranks have the following names: > >7 Seven >8 Six >A Ace >T Ten >K King >Q Queen >J Jack >9 Nine > >The suits have the following names: > >B Bombs >F Fridges >G Guns >K Knives >P Poisons > >The Jokers are: > >The Umpire >The Cop >-- >Proposer: Wild Card >Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 00:40:09 2004 >Consent: Adam, ahdok >Withheld: Mike > Nay. whether or not withheld consent means no, which I don't think it should, this is a no. >------ >The Rule of Names > >The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player >may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of >more than half of the List of Voters, and strictly more support than >every other name will become the Name of the Game and any other Name >Proposals shall be dropped. >-- >Proposer: Wild Card >Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:09:16 2004 >Consent: Adam, ahdok >Withheld: Carrie, Mike > Aye >------ >Create a Rule as follows > >Dictionary Additions 1. > >Add the following definitions to the Dictionary, then remove this rule from >the ruleset: >C. = unit of Currency >triangle = unit of distance on the Board >The Grid = The Board >MiniTrue = the Ministry post 'Minister of Truth' >MiniFree = the Ministry post 'Minister of Freedom' >-- >Proposer: JJ >Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 >Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, ahdok >Withheld: Mike > >------ >Sociability > >Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the same >are >Friendly. >Any player whose location is at least 4 triangles from all other players >(under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. >-- >Proposer: JJ >Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 >Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, ahdok >Withheld: Mike > >------ >...I wandered expensively as a bird... > >2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at any >time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, informing the >other players of this fact and their new location. >-- >Proposer: JJ >Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 >Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, ahdok >Withheld: Mike > >------ >Arbitration > >In the event of something having to be chosen arbitrarily then any >person who has to harf that thing may make the choice by whatever >means they deem appropriate. >-- >Proposer: Wild Card >Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:23 2004 >Withheld: Adam, Mike Nay, again on the word harf. I think I already said that. > >------ >Hanging Chad > >All players shall have unique, positive, integer, reference numbers. >-- >Proposer: Wild Card >Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:33 2004 >Consent: Adam, JJ, ahdok >Withheld: Mike > >------ >It's easier than learning your ABC > >Every player shall number their proposals. Proposal numbers shall be >of the form a.b; where a shall be the unique reference number of the >player, and b shall be a positive integer chosen such that: > > a) a.b is unique > b) b is strictly larger than every other b that that player has ever >used for a proposal number. >-- >Proposer: Wild Card >Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:27 2004 >Withheld: Adam, Mike > >------ >Rule five. > >Once the stupid notice of consensus for now this rule is issued eventually, >new rules passed stand, providing, however, every fifth word (not including >words in the email title) is considered not ignored, to exist if the >Akanomic rule contains the word I "rule" in its title. Remember, This rule >only applies blindly to itself and rules not containing higher numbers than >three it. This affects itself immediately under the interpretation it >suddenly takes after every fifth written word, is removed. >-- >Proposer: ahdok >Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:06:23 2004 >Withheld: Mike, Carrie > >------ >Clerk of the Vatican > >The Ministry shall contain a post called the Clerk of the Vatican. The >duties of the Clerk of the Vatican shall include maintaining and making >publically available a list of entities who are willing to judge disputes >over the interpretation of the rules or gamestate. >-- >Proposer: Adam >Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 >Consent: JJ, Wild Card, ahdok >Withheld: Mike > >------ >Judgement Procedure > >If a member of the List of Voters wishes to assert the validity of a claim >which refers solely to the rules or gamestate, that entity make invoke the >Judgement Procedure by publically claiming to be invoking the Judgement of >the Pope and supplying the statement whose validity is under question. The >invoking entity may also present an argument suporting the statement. >-- >Proposer: Adam >Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 >Consent: JJ, Wild Card, ahdok >Withheld: Mike > >------ >White Smoke > >When an entity invokes the Judgement of the Pope, it shall be the duty of >the Clerk of the Vatican to select an entity to act as Pope in the >resolution of that claim. This selection shall be performed by uniform >random selection from the set of all entities which: > a) have informed the Clerk of the Vatican that they are willing to act >as >Pope, and not subsequently retracted that statement > b) are not considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV > c) are not the entity invoking the Judgement of the Pope If this set is >empty, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to cause it to >cease being so. >-- >Proposer: Adam >Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 >Consent: JJ, Wild Card, ahdok >Withheld: Mike > >------ >Papal Edicts > >When the Judgement of the Pope has been invoked and the Clerk of the >Vatican has selected an entity to act as Pope, the Pope may pass judgement >on the claim. > >Legal judgements shall be: > TRUE if the Pope believes the claim to be true with respect to all >aspects >of the current state of the game > FALSE if the Pope believes the claim not to be true with respect to all >aspects of the current state of the game > Either TRUE or FALSE if the Pope believes the claim to be ambiguous with >respect to all aspects of the current state of the game, depending on the >Pope's beliefs about the original intent of the rules and the entities >which have acted on the game, which interpretation makes more sense and >which interpretation will lead to a more enjoyable game > AN OFFENCE AGAINST GOD if the Pope believes that the invocation of >judgement was not correctly made or that it would be otherwise >inappropriate to pass judgement > >When the Pope rules a claim TRUE or FALSE, that ruling shall be used to >determine future interpretations of the rules and gamestate. >-- >Proposer: Adam >Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 >Consent: JJ, Wild Card, ahdok >Withheld: Mike > >------ >Change every instance of the word "unambiguous" in the rules to "explicit". >-- >Proposer: Wild Card >Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:02:08 2004 >Consent: Adam, ahdok >Withheld: Mike Not voting at this time, on the basis that I need to go right through the ruleset to check that. > >------ >Public Records > >If a member of the list of voters wishes a view expressed by them to >have an effect on the game, it must be recorded by sending an email to >the email list. The view shall be considered to have been expressed at >the time the email was sent, as recorded by the email list archives. If >a view has not been expressed in this manner, it may be ignored by >members of the list of voters at their leisure. >-- >Proposer: Stumo >Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:10:24 2004 >Consent: Adam, ahdok >Withheld: Mike > Aye >------ >The Rule That Won't Exist For Long > >This rule overrides Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules. > >If ever this rule is in force, the following definitions shall be added to >the Definitions Dictionary: > >ENTITY - Anything having existence in the real (extranomic) world. RESON - >Any construction of the game which has existence in the gameworld defined >by the rules. THINGY - synonymous with RESON > >The following changes shall then be applied to the rules: > >All occurrences of the word 'entity' in Rule 1, Existence of the Game shall >be replaced with 'reson'. > >The sentence 'This list shall be known as the List of Voters' shall be >appended to Rule 3, List of Voters. > >The Rule That Won't Exist For Long shall be deleted from the rules. >-- >Proposer: Adam >Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 17:57:14 2004 >Consent: JJ, Stumo, ahdok >Withheld: Mike This is redundant now, right? The effects have all been passed by Imperial Edict. I hence vote Nay, since I don't want This List... to be appended *again*. > >------ >Thats the Name of the Game > >The game shall have a name and it shall be "Astronomic" >-- >Proposer: Carrie >Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 >Consent: Wild Card, Mike, Adam, ahdok >Withheld: Stumo Aye, but I still prefer Terrapin Nomic. (Imperial Edict?) > >----- >Name that Game > >The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bowling for Buzzards" >-- >Proposer: Carrie >Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 >Consent: Stumo, Wild Card, ahdok >Withheld: Mike, Adam Nay > >----- >Thrid Time Lucky > >The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bobbing for Snapping Turtles" >-- >Proposer: Carrie >Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 >Consent: Wild Card, ahdok >Withheld: Stumo, Mike, Adam Nay > >----- >Community Chest > >There exists a class of object called Community Chest Cards. > >Community Chest Cards may be created at whim out of the ether as >required by the rules. > >When a Community Chest Card is played, it is destroyed. > >There exists a dictionary of Community Chest Card types, and their >actions. Initially this is empty. > >If a rule does not specify what type of Community Chest Card is >created then they are created at random; with an equal likelyhood of >each type. > >Unless otherwise specified by the rules the type of any Community >Chest Card is a secret, revealed only to the player who possesses it. > >Community Chest Card actions have the force of rule. >-- >Proposer: Wild Card >Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 16:17:13 2004 >Consent: Stumo, adam, Carrie, ahdok, Mike what the hell. Aye. > >------ >I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land > >The Duty of the Minister of Perspicuity shall be to keep a record of >important game events; viz to be a game historian. >-- >Proposer: Wild Card >Consent Assumed: Sun Oct 3 15:24:11 2004 >Consent: Adam, Mike, Stumo Aye, though I'd prefer a definition of important. > >------ >I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind > >Initially the Minister of Perspicuity shall be Wild Card. >-- >Proposer: Wild Card >Consent Assumed: Sun Oct 3 15:24:11 2004 >Consent: Adam, Mike, Stumo Fine. We really should get a committee election procedure up, rather than having to do it by rule. I would offer one, but I lack access in my room at the moment and hence don't have the time. JJ > >------ > >Summary finished by Wild Card Thu Sep 30 22:47:17 BST 2004 > > >_______________________________________________ >Nomic-talk mailing list >Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Fri Oct 01 10:13:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDJTW-000634-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:13:14 +0100 Received: from bay24-f2.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.52]:4338 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDJTR-0005nU-E8 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:13:09 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 02:10:01 -0700 Received: from 131.111.8.103 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:09:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [131.111.8.103] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] a modest proposal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Oct 2004 09:10:01.0557 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E977850:01C4A796] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 10:14:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:09:45 +0100 > >Just to keep things exciting, a new rule proposal: > >---------- >Congratulations! > >Any player issuing a Notice of Consensus which results in the creation of a >rule whose full name (as defined by Rule 6, The Rule of Structured Names) >begins with the string "Rule 50" shall receive 50 units of Currency. >---------- Might as well say aye, I suspect this'll end up buggered around by Imperial Edict nearer the time though. I also hereby offer myself as an entity who is willing to be placed on the list to judge dispute, that is, I will serve as Pope if asked. I do not wish to be Clerk of the Vatican though. JJ > >EE > >_______________________________________________ >Nomic-talk mailing list >Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Oct 01 11:23:31 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDKZX-00009G-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:23:31 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:45026) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDKZB-0000ny-Bd (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:23:09 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CDKZ7-000724-00; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:23:05 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDKU3-0003Kb-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:17:51 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] volunteers? In-Reply-To: Your message of "01 Oct 2004 01:27:45 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 11:24:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:17:50 +0100 > Would anyone like to be Clerk of the Vatican? > Oh, go on, I'll do it... WC. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Oct 01 11:23:32 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDKZY-00009P-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:23:32 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:45013) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDKZA-0000nV-3I (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:23:08 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CDKZ5-000724-00; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:23:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDKYw-0003Nn-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:22:54 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Invocation of Judgement Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 11:24:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:22:54 +0100 I call upon the Pope to judge the following claim: --- It is possible to unrevokably 'vote' against a proposal From mikec@mxtelecom.com Fri Oct 01 11:26:15 2004 Received: from ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.131]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDKcB-0000FS-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:26:15 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:52051 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.141]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDKbv-0007Dm-3c (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:25:59 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CDKbk-0005mH-Gl for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:25:48 +0100 Message-ID: <415D30AA.9070804@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Notice of eligibility Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 11:27:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:25:46 +0100 Dear God, I would like to be considered for the role of Pope. Please find my CV attached. Yours Faithfully, Mike Cripps From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 01 12:45:01 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDLqP-0003ub-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:45:01 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:36677) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDLqM-0004cu-Je (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:44:58 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CDLqM-0000wH-Ip for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:44:58 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: RE: [Nomic] *CORRECTED* Summary 04/09/30 X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.136.4] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 12:46:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 01 Oct 2004 12:44:58 +0100 On Oct 1 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >------ > >The Rule That Won't Exist For Long > > > >This rule overrides Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules. > > > > If ever this rule is in force, the following definitions shall be added > > to the Definitions Dictionary: > > > > ENTITY - Anything having existence in the real (extranomic) world. > > RESON - Any construction of the game which has existence in the > > gameworld defined by the rules. THINGY - synonymous with RESON > > > >The following changes shall then be applied to the rules: > > > > All occurrences of the word 'entity' in Rule 1, Existence of the Game > > shall be replaced with 'reson'. > > > >The sentence 'This list shall be known as the List of Voters' shall be > >appended to Rule 3, List of Voters. > > > >The Rule That Won't Exist For Long shall be deleted from the rules. > >-- > >Proposer: Adam > >Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 17:57:14 2004 > >Consent: JJ, Stumo, ahdok > >Withheld: Mike > > This is redundant now, right? The effects have all been passed by > Imperial Edict. I hence vote Nay, since I don't want This List... to be > appended *again*. On the contrary, the only effect that has been passed is the change to Rule 3. I'd quite like to see the others go in, personally ... > >------ > >Thats the Name of the Game > > > >The game shall have a name and it shall be "Astronomic" > >-- > >Proposer: Carrie > >Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 > >Consent: Wild Card, Mike, Adam, ahdok > >Withheld: Stumo > > Aye, but I still prefer Terrapin Nomic. (Imperial Edict?) Unfortunately for you, I prefer Astronomic. EE From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 01 12:47:01 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDLsL-0003zx-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:47:01 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:37017) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDLs7-00035o-Vx (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:46:48 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CDLs7-0001NQ-Uc for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:46:47 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: RE: [Nomic] a modest proposal X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.136.4] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 12:47:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 01 Oct 2004 12:46:47 +0100 On Oct 1 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > >Congratulations! > > Might as well say aye, I suspect this'll end up buggered around by > Imperial Edict nearer the time though. I'm hurt by your lack of faith. You don't think I'm capable of buggering this about without employing my Imperial powers? EE From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 01 12:56:59 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDM1z-0004OH-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:56:59 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:39793) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDM1x-00006W-Rr (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:56:57 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CDM1x-0003fi-Qq for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:56:57 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Invocation of Judgement X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.136.4] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 12:57:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 01 Oct 2004 12:56:57 +0100 On Oct 1 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > I call upon the Pope to judge the following claim: > > --- > It is possible to unrevokably 'vote' against a proposal Since there is no Clerk of the Vatican, I do not believe this invocation does anything. Unless anyone says anything to the contrary soon, I may appoint Wild Card Clerk of the Vatican by Edict, since we ought to have one and I suspect only the people checking the list fairly frequently are in a position to do it at the moment anyway. I also propose the following new rule: ---------- Court Records It shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to keep a publically accessible record of past invocations of the Judgement of the Pope and their outcomes. ---------- EE From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Oct 01 13:21:28 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDMPg-0005Vl-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:21:28 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.195]:22713 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDMPa-0003KR-Em (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:21:22 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so633938rnb for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 05:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.1.72 with SMTP id 72mr835291rna; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 05:21:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.17 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 05:21:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Summary 04/09/30 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 13:22:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:21:15 +0100 I note witheld means Nay. I am going to restate all my votes to make this clear. On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:47:48 +0100, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Any of these rules will pass by autoadoption if they have no withheld > consents: > > ------ > The 'Exception that proves the' Rule: > > A rule may override another rule if and only if it mentions that rule by > name. The only exception is this rule, which overrides all others, > except those which mention it by name. > -- > Consent: Maz, JJ, Martin, adam, dok, Madeleine, Stumo, Mike, Dunky > Withheld: Carrie (based on uncertainty about the matter of rules merely > referencing others rather than explicitly overriding them) No-one else sees this as a problem so I'll vote Aye. Which I believe I have done in another summary. > > ------ > The Rule of Self-Image > > The game shall have a name, which shall be "Terrapin Nomic". > -- > Consent: JJ, adam, dok, Mike, Martin, Madeleine, Maz, Dunky > Withheld: Carrie, Stumo > This is still a Nay. > ------ > Twice the fun; harf the harf! > > A proposed rules change may be described as harfy. > > A proposed rules change can only become harfy if: > a) No other proposed rules change is harfy. > b) The Harfharfer declares that it is harfy. > c) It was not proposed by the current Harfharfer. > > If a harfy rules change takes place then the following events happen: > a) The entity which proposed the rules change gains one chocolate biscuit. > b) The entity which proposed the rules change becomes the Harfharfer; > the previous Harfharfer ceases to be the Harfharfer. > c) If the rule change created a rule, then that rule may also be > described as harfy. > > If there is no harfy rules change for three days, but there exist > non-harfy proposed rules changes for that entire period, then the > Harfharfer is guilty of the Crime of Hogging the Harf. > > The standard punishment for the Crime of Hogging the Harf shall be > confiscation of two chocolate biscuits. > > Adam Biltcliffe becomes the Harfharfer; The Rule of Girls may be > described as harfy; and this paragraph is deleted from the rules. > -- > Proposer: Madeleine > Consent: adam, JJ, dok, Maz, Dunky > Withheld: Mike, Carrie > Also Nay > ------ > But I can't hear it! > > /* -- REM, Radio Song */ > > Any text in a rule between C-style comment delimiters; as demonstrated > above; has no rules effect, and exists only as a comment > -- > Proposer: Madeleine > Consent: JJ, Maz, Mike, Dunky > Withheld: adam, dok > Nay > ------ > Bored Of Being Board > > There shall exist an infinite, 2-dimensional integer grid (a copy of > Z^2), henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of > entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. If > at any point a member of the List of Voters lacks a location on The > Board, their location shall be set to (0,0). > -- > Proposer: Martin > Consent: JJ, Stumo, adam, Carrie, Madeleine, dok, Maz, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > > ------ > Insufficient Notices > > Any voting entity who creates a document purporting to be a Notice of > Consensus which is not in fact valid shall be guilty of the crime of Taking > Insufficient Notice. > -- > Proposer: adam > Consent: Stumo, dok, JJ, Madeleine, Maz, Mike, Dunky > Aye > ------ > I propose changing the wording of Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion from: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on > the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other > entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that > proposal from each such entity and then posts a public Notice of Consensus > to the other members detailing the issue upon which Consensus of Opinion has > been reached. > > to: > > A Consensus of Opinion on a particular issue exists when one entity named on > the List of Voters makes a proposal describing the issue to all other > entities named on the List of Voters, obtains unambiguous consent to that > proposal from each such entity that will be affected differently to all > other such entities and all but at most one other such entity, and then > posts a public Notice of Consensus to the other members detailing the issue > upon which Consensus of Opinion has been reached. > -- > Proposer: JJ > Consent: Madeleine, Maz, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > Nay > ------ > > **** Proposals after this have times of Assumed Consent noted **** > > ------ > House of Cards > > A Pack of Cards has 42 cards; consisting of eight ranks; 78ATKQJ9; in > each of five suits; BFGKP; and two Jokers. > > The ranks have the following names: > > 7 Seven > 8 Six > A Ace > T Ten > K King > Q Queen > J Jack > 9 Nine > > The suits have the following names: > > B Bombs > F Fridges > G Guns > K Knives > P Poisons > > The Jokers are: > > The Umpire > The Cop > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 00:40:09 2004 > Consent: Adam, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > Aye > ------ > The Rule of Names > > The Game shall have a Name. Until a name is chosen then any player > may propose Names. Any Name that recieves the explicit support of > more than half of the List of Voters, and strictly more support than > every other name will become the Name of the Game and any other Name > Proposals shall be dropped. > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:09:16 2004 > Consent: Adam, Dunky > Withheld: Carrie, Mike > Nay > ------ > Create a Rule as follows > > Dictionary Additions 1. > > Add the following definitions to the Dictionary, then remove this rule from > the ruleset: > C. = unit of Currency > triangle = unit of distance on the Board > The Grid = The Board > MiniTrue = the Ministry post 'Minister of Truth' > MiniFree = the Ministry post 'Minister of Freedom' > -- > Proposer: JJ > Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 > Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > > ------ > Sociability > > Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the same are > Friendly. > Any player whose location is at least 4 triangles from all other players > (under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. > -- > Proposer: JJ > Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 > Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > > ------ > ...I wandered expensively as a bird... > > 2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at any > time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, informing the > other players of this fact and their new location. > -- > Proposer: JJ > Consent Assumed: Thu Sep 30 23:53:11 2004 > Consent: Adam, Carrie, Stumo, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > > ------ > Arbitration > > In the event of something having to be chosen arbitrarily then any > person who has to harf that thing may make the choice by whatever > means they deem appropriate. > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:23 2004 > Withheld: Adam, Mike > Nay > ------ > Hanging Chad > > All players shall have unique, positive, integer, reference numbers. > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:33 2004 > Consent: Adam, JJ, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > Nay > ------ > It's easier than learning your ABC > > Every player shall number their proposals. Proposal numbers shall be > of the form a.b; where a shall be the unique reference number of the > player, and b shall be a positive integer chosen such that: > > a) a.b is unique > b) b is strictly larger than every other b that that player has ever > used for a proposal number. > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:00:27 2004 > Withheld: Adam, Mike > Nay > ------ > Rule five. > > Once the stupid notice of consensus for now this rule is issued eventually, > new rules passed stand, providing, however, every fifth word (not including > words in the email title) is considered not ignored, to exist if the > Akanomic rule contains the word I "rule" in its title. Remember, This rule > only applies blindly to itself and rules not containing higher numbers than > three it. This affects itself immediately under the interpretation it > suddenly takes after every fifth written word, is removed. > -- > Proposer: Dunky > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:06:23 2004 > Withheld: Mike, Carrie > Nay > ------ > Clerk of the Vatican > > The Ministry shall contain a post called the Clerk of the Vatican. The > duties of the Clerk of the Vatican shall include maintaining and making > publically available a list of entities who are willing to judge disputes > over the interpretation of the rules or gamestate. > -- > Proposer: Adam > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 > Consent: JJ, Wild Card, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > Aye > ------ > Judgement Procedure > > If a member of the List of Voters wishes to assert the validity of a claim > which refers solely to the rules or gamestate, that entity make invoke the > Judgement Procedure by publically claiming to be invoking the Judgement of > the Pope and supplying the statement whose validity is under question. The > invoking entity may also present an argument suporting the statement. > -- > Proposer: Adam > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 > Consent: JJ, Wild Card, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > Aye > ------ > White Smoke > > When an entity invokes the Judgement of the Pope, it shall be the duty of > the Clerk of the Vatican to select an entity to act as Pope in the > resolution of that claim. This selection shall be performed by uniform > random selection from the set of all entities which: > a) have informed the Clerk of the Vatican that they are willing to act as > Pope, and not subsequently retracted that statement > b) are not considered to be lizardmen from Antares IV > c) are not the entity invoking the Judgement of the Pope If this set is > empty, it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Vatican to cause it to > cease being so. > -- > Proposer: Adam > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 > Consent: JJ, Wild Card, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > Aye > ------ > Papal Edicts > > When the Judgement of the Pope has been invoked and the Clerk of the > Vatican has selected an entity to act as Pope, the Pope may pass judgement > on the claim. > > Legal judgements shall be: > TRUE if the Pope believes the claim to be true with respect to all aspects > of the current state of the game > FALSE if the Pope believes the claim not to be true with respect to all > aspects of the current state of the game > Either TRUE or FALSE if the Pope believes the claim to be ambiguous with > respect to all aspects of the current state of the game, depending on the > Pope's beliefs about the original intent of the rules and the entities > which have acted on the game, which interpretation makes more sense and > which interpretation will lead to a more enjoyable game > AN OFFENCE AGAINST GOD if the Pope believes that the invocation of > judgement was not correctly made or that it would be otherwise > inappropriate to pass judgement > > When the Pope rules a claim TRUE or FALSE, that ruling shall be used to > determine future interpretations of the rules and gamestate. > -- > Proposer: Adam > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 00:25:09 2004 > Consent: JJ, Wild Card, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > Aye > ------ > Change every instance of the word "unambiguous" in the rules to "explicit". > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:02:08 2004 > Consent: Adam, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > Nay > ------ > Public Records > > If a member of the list of voters wishes a view expressed by them to > have an effect on the game, it must be recorded by sending an email to > the email list. The view shall be considered to have been expressed at > the time the email was sent, as recorded by the email list archives. If > a view has not been expressed in this manner, it may be ignored by > members of the list of voters at their leisure. > -- > Proposer: Stumo > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 02:10:24 2004 > Consent: Adam, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > Aye > ------ > The Rule That Won't Exist For Long > > This rule overrides Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules. > > If ever this rule is in force, the following definitions shall be added to > the Definitions Dictionary: > > ENTITY - Anything having existence in the real (extranomic) world. RESON - > Any construction of the game which has existence in the gameworld defined > by the rules. THINGY - synonymous with RESON > > The following changes shall then be applied to the rules: > > All occurrences of the word 'entity' in Rule 1, Existence of the Game shall > be replaced with 'reson'. > > The sentence 'This list shall be known as the List of Voters' shall be > appended to Rule 3, List of Voters. > > The Rule That Won't Exist For Long shall be deleted from the rules. > -- > Proposer: Adam > Consent Assumed: Fri Oct 1 17:57:14 2004 > Consent: JJ, Stumo, Dunky > Withheld: Mike > Aye > ------ > Thats the Name of the Game > > The game shall have a name and it shall be "Astronomic" > -- > Proposer: Carrie > Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 > Consent: Wild Card, Mike, Adam, Dunky > Withheld: Stumo > > ----- > Name that Game > > The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bowling for Buzzards" > -- > Proposer: Carrie > Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 > Consent: Stumo, Wild Card, Dunky > Withheld: Mike, Adam > > ----- > Thrid Time Lucky > > The game shall have a name and it shall be "Bobbing for Snapping Turtles" > -- > Proposer: Carrie > Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 14:34:29 2004 > Consent: Wild Card, Dunky > Withheld: Stumo, Mike, Adam > > ----- > Community Chest > > There exists a class of object called Community Chest Cards. > > Community Chest Cards may be created at whim out of the ether as > required by the rules. > > When a Community Chest Card is played, it is destroyed. > > There exists a dictionary of Community Chest Card types, and their > actions. Initially this is empty. > > If a rule does not specify what type of Community Chest Card is > created then they are created at random; with an equal likelyhood of > each type. > > Unless otherwise specified by the rules the type of any Community > Chest Card is a secret, revealed only to the player who possesses it. > > Community Chest Card actions have the force of rule. > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Sat Oct 2 16:17:13 2004 > Consent: Stumo, adam, Carrie, Dunky, Mike > > ------ > I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land > > The Duty of the Minister of Perspicuity shall be to keep a record of > important game events; viz to be a game historian. > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Sun Oct 3 15:24:11 2004 > Consent: Adam, Mike, Stumo > This seems really pointless but if you really want too... Aye > ------ > I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind > > Initially the Minister of Perspicuity shall be Wild Card. > -- > Proposer: Wild Card > Consent Assumed: Sun Oct 3 15:24:11 2004 > Consent: Adam, Mike, Stumo > Aye > ------ All done, Carrie > > Summary finished by Wild Card Thu Sep 30 22:47:17 BST 2004 > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From mikec@mxtelecom.com Fri Oct 01 14:55:26 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDNsc-0001FP-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:55:26 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:54710 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDNsV-0003hj-OM (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:55:19 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CDNsP-00015W-BH for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:55:13 +0100 Message-ID: <415D61BD.7030204@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Invocation of Judgement References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 14:56:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:55:09 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Oct 1 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > >> I call upon the Pope to judge the following claim: >> >> --- >> It is possible to unrevokably 'vote' against a proposal > > > Since there is no Clerk of the Vatican, I do not believe this invocation > does anything. > > Unless anyone says anything to the contrary soon, I may appoint Wild > Card Clerk of the Vatican by Edict, since we ought to have one and I > suspect only the people checking the list fairly frequently are in a > position to do it at the moment anyway. Yeah, sounds fair enough to me. Monitor soon! Monitor soon! Mike From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Oct 01 15:23:11 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDOJT-0002Ya-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:23:11 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:33284) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDOJN-00008E-BI (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:23:05 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CDOJM-0002nS-00; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:23:04 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDOD9-0004as-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:16:39 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Invocation of Judgement In-Reply-To: Your message of "01 Oct 2004 12:56:57 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 15:24:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:16:39 +0100 > On Oct 1 2004, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > > I call upon the Pope to judge the following claim: > > > > --- > > It is possible to unrevokably 'vote' against a proposal > > Since there is no Clerk of the Vatican, I do not believe this invocation > does anything. > There's nothing in the rules I can see that means that it does. Might just go into the prospective Clerk's "in tray". WC. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 01 17:21:51 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDQAJ-0007V8-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:21:51 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:46529) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDQAE-00022C-80 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:21:46 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CDQAE-0002Z7-75 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:21:46 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [81.78.21.79] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Imperial Proclamation #3 Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 17:22:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 01 Oct 2004 17:21:46 +0100 In the interests of expediency, Wild Card is hereby appointed Clerk of the Vatican, subject to review in a few days if anyone has issues with this undemocratic intervention. I will at some point proffer myself as a potential Pope, but not before Sunday as I am spending tomorrow in Birmingham. EE From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Oct 01 17:46:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDQXu-0008Pi-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:46:14 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:43169) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDQXn-0002tX-EY (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:46:07 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CDQXj-0004OW-00; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:46:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDQT7-0005Zc-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:41:17 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Invocation of Judgement In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:22:54 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 17:47:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:41:17 +0100 > I call upon the Pope to judge the following claim: > > --- > It is possible to unrevokably 'vote' against a proposal > I declare Garath to be the Pope for this claim. WC. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Oct 01 17:46:15 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDQXv-0008Po-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:46:15 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:43176) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDQXo-0002rl-Ay (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:46:08 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CDQXl-0004OW-00; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:46:05 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDQRq-0005YY-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:39:58 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Imperial Proclamation #3 In-Reply-To: Your message of "01 Oct 2004 17:21:46 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 17:47:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:39:57 +0100 > In the interests of expediency, Wild Card is hereby appointed Clerk of the > Vatican, subject to review in a few days if anyone has issues with this > undemocratic intervention. > > I will at some point proffer myself as a potential Pope, but not before > Sunday as I am spending tomorrow in Birmingham. > Current Potential Popes are Garath and Scotsman. WC. From mikec@mxtelecom.com Fri Oct 01 18:30:08 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDREO-0002Ju-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:30:08 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:57119 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDREA-0005FV-Cl (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:29:54 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CDRE4-00051W-9z for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:29:48 +0100 Message-ID: <415D9407.5070704@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Coup Attempt Number 3 Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 18:31:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:29:43 +0100 1) This is a Notice of Consensus printed on brown paper, to inform all players that the addition of the following rule has now acheived Consensus of Opinion via assumed Consent and will therefore take effect as of now: ------- You say Tomato and I say Tomato There shall be a "Minister for Clarity" who shall be in charge of vetting all words proposed for submission to the dictionary. The Minister of Clarity shall be responsible for keeping the dictionary up to date, and may define the exact process for adding words to the dictionary. However, the Minister for Clarity shall not be permitted to propose any word for addition to the dictionary (to prevent abuse). -------- 2) I assign myself the pseudonym "The Minister of Clarity" 3) I define the process of adding a word to the dictionary to be "Give public notice of the word and definition to be added. If The Minister of Clarity deems it suitable it shall be added to the dictionary, with immediate effect" 4) I give public notice that I wish to define the word "hour" (plural=hours) as "1/72 of a second" 5) I (being "The Minister of Clarity") deem the definition of the word 'hour' suitable, and hereby add it to the dictionary. 6) I propose the following: -------- Change the wording of Rule 18 (Imperious Emperor) as follows: The name of the rule becomes "Imperious Emperors" The wording of the rule becomes "Mike Cripps and Jonathan Amery may make any change to the gamestate they desire by making a public declaration that they are doing so" --------- 7) By the time you read this, more than 72 "hours" (72 1/72s of a second) have passed since I proposed this, so I now post a notice of consensus: This is a Notice of Consensus printed on orange paper, to inform all players that the following proposal has now acheived Consensus of Opinion via assumed Consent and will therefore take effect as of now: -------- Change the wording of Rule 18 (Imperious Emperor) as follows: The name of the rule becomes "Imperious Emperors" The wording of the rule becomes "Mike Cripps and Jonathan Amery may make any change to the gamestate they desire by making a public declaration that they are doing so" --------- 8) I publically announce, as Emperor, that all reference to 'Minister of' in the newly enacted rule ("You say Tomato and I say Tomato") be changed to "Minister for'. 9) I publically announce, as Emperor, that the definition of 'hours' in the dictionary shall be removed, effective now. That should do it, I think... Mike From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Oct 01 21:57:05 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDUSf-0000Qp-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:57:05 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:58030) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDUSa-0004lS-1o (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:57:00 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CDUSY-0007Pf-00; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:56:58 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDUSH-0007Ag-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:56:41 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Imperial Proclamation #3 In-Reply-To: Your message of "01 Oct 2004 17:21:46 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 21:58:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:56:40 +0100 > In the interests of expediency, Wild Card is hereby appointed Clerk of the > Vatican, subject to review in a few days if anyone has issues with this > undemocratic intervention. > I've created: http://www.pick.ucam.org/ucgi/~jdamery/astronomic/wiki?VaticanRecords Feel free to store other stuff on this wiki too; but regard it as "vaguely tested"... :) WC. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Oct 01 22:11:48 2004 Received: from ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.131]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDUgu-00011O-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:11:48 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:58781) by ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.141]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDUgp-0000rJ-IO (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:11:43 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CDUgn-0000P5-00; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:11:41 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDUgj-0007HR-00 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:11:37 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Request for Judgement Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 1 22:12:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:11:36 +0100 With my "personal hat" on I request that the following Claim be Judged: --- This mail of adam's did not constitute an "explicit lack of consent": http://www.srcf.ucam.org/pipermail/nomic-talk/2004-September/000341.html --- I now put my "Clerk of the Vatican" hat on, and toss my coin... Heads: Mike Tails: Garath I get a heads. Mike is assigned as Pope for this query. From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Sat Oct 02 12:42:57 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDiHx-0003Td-00 for ; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:42:57 +0100 Received: from mewo2.joh.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.237.249]:32871) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CDiHv-0003Hs-Nd (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:42:55 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Coup Attempt Number 3 From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: <415D9407.5070704@mxtelecom.com> References: <415D9407.5070704@mxtelecom.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1096717307.2912.3.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Oct 2 12:43:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:41:48 +0100 On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 18:29, Mike Cripps wrote: > ------- > You say Tomato and I say Tomato > There shall be a "Minister for Clarity" who shall be in charge of > vetting all words proposed for submission to the dictionary. The > Minister of Clarity shall be responsible for keeping the dictionary up > to date, and may define the exact process for adding words to the > dictionary. However, the Minister for Clarity shall not be permitted to > propose any word for addition to the dictionary (to prevent abuse). > -------- Unfortunately, the "Minister for Clarity" has not vetted your proposed submission. Therefore it doesn't take effect. Martin From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Sat Oct 02 12:52:59 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDiRf-0003oH-00 for ; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:52:59 +0100 Received: from mewo2.joh.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.237.249]:32888) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.150]:25) with asmtp (mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1CDiRb-0006El-TO (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:52:55 +0100 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Coup Attempt Number 3 From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: <415D9407.5070704@mxtelecom.com> References: <415D9407.5070704@mxtelecom.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1096717908.2912.6.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Oct 2 12:53:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:51:48 +0100 On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 18:29, Mike Cripps wrote: > 7) By the time you read this, more than 72 "hours" (72 1/72s of a > second) have passed since I proposed this, so I now post a notice of > consensus: > > This is a Notice of Consensus printed on orange paper, to inform all > players that the following proposal has now acheived Consensus of > Opinion via assumed Consent and will therefore take effect as of now: > > -------- > Change the wording of Rule 18 (Imperious Emperor) as follows: > The name of the rule becomes "Imperious Emperors" > The wording of the rule becomes "Mike Cripps and Jonathan Amery may make > any change to the gamestate they desire by making a public declaration > that they are doing so" > --------- This notice is invalid as it was issued before consent had been obtained (before 72 hours/1 second had passed). I now object to the proposal it mentioned. Martin From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Sat Oct 02 20:45:22 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDpoo-00023g-00 for ; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:45:22 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:36666) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDpok-0001sp-Ep (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:45:18 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CDpok-0008HD-Dd for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:45:18 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.160.183] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Invocation of judgement Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Oct 2 20:46:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 02 Oct 2004 20:45:18 +0100 I hereby state that I am willing to act as Pope in matters of dispute resolution (not that it matters for the invocation I'm about to make, obviously. I note that we should maybe have a way of excluding other involved parties from passing judgement on an issue too, since although I trust everyone here to be reasonable in their judging of a claim, it seems mean if nothing else to potentially make someone judge their own actions invalid). First, I'd like to congratulate Mike on a very competent coup attempt. I certainly didn't intend for the Tomato rule to pass (although not because I saw the very cunning loophole embedded in it), but I admit that my email of Tue Sep 28 19:30:02 2004 is not sufficiently explicit in denying consent. However ... I would like to invoke the Judgement of the Pope in resolving the validity of the following claim: Adam Biltcliffe expressed an explicit lack of consent to the proposal by Mike Cripps to create a rule entitled 'You say Tomato and I say Tomato'. My reasoning is as follows: In the penultimate paragraph of my email of Mon Sep 27 21:16:01 2004, I made the statement 'I hereby object to all proposals to which I have not explicitly given consent'. I did not state that this applied only to proposals currently under consideration. I therefore assert that my intent was to object to *all* possible proposals unless I gave explicit consent to them, and therefore that my consent to a proposal can never be assumed unless given explicitly. Therefore there was not a Consensus of Opinion on the passing of the rule 'You say Tomato and I say Tomato', and in addition to not being Emperor, Mike Cripps is guilty of two counts of Taking Insufficient Notice. If I am in fact currently still Emperor, I hereby declare that before he wreaks any more havoc, Mike Cripps' shall be assigned the pseudonym 'Sneaky Git'. EE From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Sat Oct 02 20:59:31 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDq2V-0002QB-00 for ; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:59:31 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:37554) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDq2T-0003BE-8n (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:59:29 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CDq2T-00019P-7k for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:59:29 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.160.183] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] a clarification Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Oct 2 21:00:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 02 Oct 2004 20:59:29 +0100 Having just thought about this for a little longer, I'm pretty sure I'm still Emperor. I can't see any way it can be argued that Martin's objection to Mike's NoC for his amendment to Rule 18, Imperious Emperor was invalid, since the proposal and the NoC were clearly posted at the same time, less than one second apart. Therefore I believe that only the first six actions in Mike's email were legal (and so I vote an explicit no to his proposal to amend Rule 18 to make himself and Wild Card Emperors, just for safety's sake). This wouldn't make any difference, since he could just carry out the same coup again with the one-second delay inserted, except that I just changed his pseudonym as an afterthought to my last email, and he can't change it back. Now, before anyone else tries the same trick, I'll make the following declarations (copied and pasted from Mike's email, natch): 8) I publically announce, as Emperor, that all reference to 'Minister of' in the newly enacted rule ("You say Tomato and I say Tomato") be changed to "Minister for'. 9) I publically announce, as Emperor, that the definition of 'hours' in the dictionary shall be removed, effective now. Loophole fixed, n'est-ce pas? EE (still probably in power) From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Sat Oct 02 21:46:09 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDqld-0003rc-00 for ; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:46:09 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:36900) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CDqla-00051L-JZ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:46:06 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CDqlX-0003P1-00; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:46:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CDqjL-0005w9-00 for ; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:43:47 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Invocation of judgement In-Reply-To: Your message of "02 Oct 2004 20:45:18 BST." References: From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Oct 2 21:47:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:43:46 +0100 > Adam Biltcliffe expressed an explicit lack of consent to the proposal by > Mike Cripps to create a rule entitled 'You say Tomato and I say Tomato'. > Mike gets this one too; and I have to admit that the argument is quite convincing.... WC. From happycarrie@gmail.com Wed Oct 06 01:30:39 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CEzhX-0000Oy-00 for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 01:30:39 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.195]:22656 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CEzhS-0004Y6-RO (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 01:30:34 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 80so2342248rnk for ; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.80 with SMTP id 80mr2279872rnh; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.17 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: Nomic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.055, AWL 0.03, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Subject: [Nomic] NoC Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 6 01:31:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 01:30:28 +0100 This is a Notice of Consensus for the following rule and is printed on girly pink paper. Thats the Name of the Game The game shall have a name and it shall be "Astronomic" Carrie From mikec@mxtelecom.com Wed Oct 06 10:19:44 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CF7xY-0003tw-00 for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:19:44 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:35274 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CF7xT-0003JC-9y (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:19:39 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CF7xN-0003Fj-9u for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:19:33 +0100 Message-ID: <4163B89B.3060500@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Papal judgement References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 6 10:20:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:19:23 +0100 The Pope rules TRUE - the email from Adam Biltcliffe on 27/9/04 at 21:15 does show sufficient proof of intent that you wished to explicitly object against all proposals unless otherwise stated. Mike Cripps is found guilty of two counts of Taking Insufficient Notice. Judgement Ends From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 06 12:44:27 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFADb-0004SB-00 for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:44:27 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:44933) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.130]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFADX-0003Ur-CP (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:44:23 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CFADX-0007Ri-Bc for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:44:23 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [131.111.230.111] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] go again? Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 6 12:45:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 06 Oct 2004 12:44:23 +0100 I believe Mike's coup has now been resolved; since a lot of people seem to have been waiting for this before doing anything else to the game, I point out that the road is now clear again. The website (http://www.srcf.ucam.org/nomic ) should now be up-to-date with the current state of the game. I think there are also quite a few proposals which can now be passed via Assumed Consent. EE From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Wed Oct 06 18:45:25 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFFqv-0001Bc-00 for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:45:25 +0100 Received: from bay24-f36.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.86]:4899 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFFqn-0004PI-KA (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:45:17 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:45:03 -0700 Received: from 131.111.8.101 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:44:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [131.111.8.101] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: [Nomic] NoCs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Oct 2004 17:45:03.0070 (UTC) FILETIME=[3564E7E0:01C4ABCC] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 6 18:46:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:44:19 +0100 This is a Notice of Consensus for the following proposal, printed on mauve-coloured paper: > >Dictionary Additions 1. > >Add the following definitions to the Dictionary, then remove this rule from >the ruleset: >C.   =  unit of Currency >triangle  =  unit of distance on the Board >The Grid = The Board >MiniTrue = the Ministry post 'Minister of Truth' >MiniFree = the Ministry post 'Minister of Freedom' This is a Notice of Consensus for the following proposal, printed on orange-coloured paper: >Sociability > >Any two players whose locations on the Bored of Being Board are the same >are >Friendly. >Any player whose location is at least 4 triangles from all other players >(under a Euclidean metric) is a Loner. >-- This is a Notice of Consensus for the following proposal, printed on Violet-coloured paper: >------ >...I wandered expensively as a bird... > >2. Any player may spend a unit of Currency from their BANK account at any >time to move their location one orthogonal unit on the Board, informing the >other players of this fact and their new location. >-- _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Wed Oct 06 19:04:27 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFG9L-0002Iv-00 for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 19:04:27 +0100 Received: from bay24-f41.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.91]:3892 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFG9H-0007St-Cq (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 19:04:23 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:04:05 -0700 Received: from 131.111.8.101 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:03:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [131.111.8.101] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Oct 2004 18:04:05.0689 (UTC) FILETIME=[DE72BA90:01C4ABCE] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Judgement Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 6 19:05:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 19:03:14 +0100 Judgement was called on the following statement: It is possible to irrevocably 'vote' against a proposal. The Pope rules TRUE, for the following reasons: a vote along the lines of 'No. This vote overrides all other votes I make, past, present and future' would be sufficient except in the case of a Yes vote with a similar condition, but that would be paradoxical and therefore ambiguous, and so would count as a Nay vote. Judgement ends _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 06 20:26:16 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFHQW-0007Qc-00 for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:26:16 +0100 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1093 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.155]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFHQS-0007sa-ON (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:26:12 +0100 Message-ID: <416446DB.1020308@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] I move to (1,0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 6 20:27:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:26:19 +0100 Haha From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 06 20:38:56 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFHcm-0008Ah-00 for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:38:56 +0100 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1098 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.155]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFHcY-0001bz-O6 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:38:43 +0100 Message-ID: <416449AF.6030405@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Call for Judgement Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 6 20:39:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:38:23 +0100 I call for the Judgement of the Pope on the following statement: 'The person referred to in Rule 18 is not Adam Biltcliffe but is in fact the person who judges this statement. There is a rule "Stuart is rather too drunk" which states "Stuart Moore is the Grand Vizier, who may change the game state as he wishes by publically declaring so, and may only be overruled by the person referred to in rule 18. This rule takes precedence over Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules"' From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed Oct 06 21:01:10 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFHyI-0000yz-00 for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:01:10 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:52096) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFHyE-00005Y-27 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:01:06 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CFHyB-0002Nc-00 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:01:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFHtW-0002oX-00 for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:56:14 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Call for Judgement In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:38:23 BST." <416449AF.6030405@cam.ac.uk> References: <416449AF.6030405@cam.ac.uk> From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 6 21:02:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:56:14 +0100 > I call for the Judgement of the Pope on the following statement: > > 'The person referred to in Rule 18 is not Adam Biltcliffe but is in fact > the person who judges this statement. There is a rule "Stuart is rather > too drunk" which states "Stuart Moore is the Grand Vizier, who may > change the game state as he wishes by publically declaring so, and may > only be overruled by the person referred to in rule 18. This rule takes > precedence over Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules"' > This CFJ is assigned to EmperorExplicivist WC. From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 06 23:57:35 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFKj1-0001xk-00 for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:57:35 +0100 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1126 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.155]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFKiw-0005Qg-Cn (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:57:30 +0100 Message-ID: <41647824.3090309@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Call for Judgement References: <416449AF.6030405@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 6 23:58:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:56:36 +0100 Jonathan David Amery wrote: >>I call for the Judgement of the Pope on the following statement: >> >>'The person referred to in Rule 18 is not Adam Biltcliffe but is in fact >>the person who judges this statement. There is a rule "Stuart is rather >>too drunk" which states "Stuart Moore is the Grand Vizier, who may >>change the game state as he wishes by publically declaring so, and may >>only be overruled by the person referred to in rule 18. This rule takes >>precedence over Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules"' >> > > This CFJ is assigned to EmperorExplicivist > > WC. Bugger. Oh well, he can create a contradiction here if he wants... From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Oct 07 07:58:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFSEE-00009o-00 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:58:18 +0100 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1063 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.155]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFSEC-0002qk-7g (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:58:16 +0100 Message-ID: <4164E90E.3010004@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060803020809030900070502" X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] [Fwd: Re: New subscription request to list Nomic-talk from orsonbradford@gmail.com] Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Oct 7 07:59:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:58:22 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060803020809030900070502 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone wants to join. Any opinions? Do we let him on the list? --------------060803020809030900070502 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Re: New subscription request to list Nomic-talk from orsonbradford@gmail.com" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Re: New subscription request to list Nomic-talk from orsonbradford@gmail.com" Return-Path: Received: from ppsw-8-intramail.csi.cam.ac.uk ([192.168.128.138]) by cyrus-1.csi.private.cam.ac.uk (Cyrus v2.1.16-HERMES) with LMTP; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 04:54:15 +0100 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.193]:1491 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFPM1-0004ZB-3v (return-path ) for stjm2@cam.ac.uk; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 04:54:09 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 75so1377573rnk for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.165.18 with SMTP id n18mr1914815rne; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.92.54 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <75172e041006205458ab3cc7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:54:02 -0400 From: nosro Reply-To: nosro To: Stuart Moore Subject: Re: New subscription request to list Nomic-talk from orsonbradford@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <4164785C.5030009@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20041006201701.8354.96938.Mailman@student.cusu.cam.ac.uk> <4164785C.5030009@cam.ac.uk> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Hello, Sorry, I didn't know if I could write anything in the subscription request. I am interested in Astronomic. I would like to observe for a while and perhaps join in -- if it is open for new players. I have some Nomic experience from Blognomic (blognomic.blogspot.com). Looking up one of our new players, WildCard, led me here. Orson Bradford --------------060803020809030900070502-- From happycarrie@gmail.com Thu Oct 07 08:58:25 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFTAP-0002yL-00 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:58:25 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.197]:15569 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFTAK-0007Pj-NE (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:58:20 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v18so3810073rnb for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:58:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.179.32 with SMTP id b32mr43963rnf; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:58:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.17 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:58:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] [Fwd: Re: New subscription request to list Nomic-talk from orsonbradford@gmail.com] In-Reply-To: <4164E90E.3010004@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4164E90E.3010004@cam.ac.uk> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Oct 7 08:59:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:58:13 +0100 Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:58:22 +0100, Stuart Moore wrote: > Someone wants to join. Any opinions? Do we let him on the list? > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: nosro > To: Stuart Moore > Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:54:02 -0400 > Subject: Re: New subscription request to list Nomic-talk from orsonbradford@gmail.com > Hello, > > Sorry, I didn't know if I could write anything in the subscription > request. I am interested in Astronomic. I would like to observe for a > while and perhaps join in -- if it is open for new players. > > I have some Nomic experience from Blognomic (blognomic.blogspot.com). > Looking up one of our new players, WildCard, led me here. > > Orson Bradford > > > I note we still don't have a way to let people join. Do we? Carrie From mikec@mxtelecom.com Thu Oct 07 10:43:19 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFUnu-0002L1-00 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:43:18 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:53847 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFUnq-00050Q-K9 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:43:14 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CFUnk-0005mQ-Ao for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:43:08 +0100 Message-ID: <41650FA3.9070708@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] Papal Judgement Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Oct 7 10:44:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:42:59 +0100 In response to ---- On Fri Oct 01 22:12:20 2004 WildCard? asked that the following claim be judged: This mail of adam's did not constitute an "explicit lack of consent": http://www.srcf.ucam.org/pipermail/nomic-talk/2004-September/000341.html It was assigned reference number J1WC002 ---- I rule TRUE Mike From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Oct 07 17:08:15 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFaoR-0002bg-00 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:08:15 +0100 Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk ([193.201.200.170]:48800) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFaoK-0004T7-1r (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:08:08 +0100 Received: from [172.16.22.11] (helo=cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp (return-path jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org) id 1CFaoF-0000Tf-00 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:08:03 +0100 Received: from jdamery by cleopatra.empire.pick.ucam.org (mailhost for ysolde.ucam.org) with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFamZ-0000k8-00 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:06:19 +0100 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org From: Jonathan David Amery Message-Id: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Subject: [Nomic] NoCs Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Oct 7 17:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:06:18 +0100 This entire email is printed on palatinate[1] paper. This is a Notice of Consensus for: ------ I'm gonna be a History Maker in this land The Duty of the Minister of Perspicuity shall be to keep a record of important game events; viz to be a game historian. ------ This is also a Notice of Consensus for: ------ I'm gonna be a Speaker of Truth to all Mankind Initially the Minister of Perspicuity shall be Wild Card. ------ WC. [1] That is, in the purple of the University of Durham From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Thu Oct 07 21:41:30 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFf4s-0007kt-00 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 21:41:30 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:47701) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFf4n-0007ys-DY (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 21:41:25 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CFf4n-0007br-CW for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 21:41:25 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [131.111.205.243] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] new players Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Oct 7 21:42:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 07 Oct 2004 21:41:25 +0100 I'm keen to let new players join in general, and certainly to let anyone who asks onto the mailing list. I do note as a general point, though, that this is a dangerous thing to start doing when players still have the ability to veto proposals by themselves, and I'd like to make yet another case for majority rule. EE From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 08 11:23:05 2004 Received: from ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.131]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFrtx-0006fx-00 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:23:05 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:46174) by ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.131]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFrtp-0003M3-Rf (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:22:58 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CFrtp-0001WY-Po for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:22:57 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [128.232.108.71] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] conflict! Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 8 11:24:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 08 Oct 2004 11:22:57 +0100 I do think we need a better precedence heuristic for rules than "must override other rules explicitly by name". At the moment, I believe there is a conflict over whether Rule 28 can be removed from the ruleset, and so I shall attempt to initiate the conflict resolution procedure as defined in Rule 7, The Rule of Conflict. I seek the Pope's judgement on the following claim: A conflict exists in the rules between Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules, which states that a change to the rules may only take place when a Consensus of Opinion exists with respect to that change, and Rule 28, Dictionary Additions 1, which states that it should be removed from the ruleset as soon as the changes it describes have been applied. EE From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 08 11:27:02 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFrxm-0006rW-00 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:27:02 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:47467) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFrxg-0007Uh-R8 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:26:56 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CFrxg-0002k7-Pm for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:26:56 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [128.232.108.71] In-Reply-To: <416449AF.6030405@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <416449AF.6030405@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Judgement Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 8 11:28:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 08 Oct 2004 11:26:56 +0100 On Oct 6 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > I call for the Judgement of the Pope on the following statement: > > 'The person referred to in Rule 18 is not Adam Biltcliffe but is in fact > the person who judges this statement. There is a rule "Stuart is rather > too drunk" which states "Stuart Moore is the Grand Vizier, who may > change the game state as he wishes by publically declaring so, and may > only be overruled by the person referred to in rule 18. This rule takes > precedence over Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules"' Rule 24, Judgement Procedure states that the Judgement of the Pope may be invoked to determine 'the validity of a claim which refers solely to the rules or gamestate'. This claim makes reference to 'the person who judges this statement' which was a matter of neither the rules nor the gamestate at the time the claim was made. I therefore judge that this claim is not valid and so AN OFFENCE AGAINST GOD. EE From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 08 14:57:30 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFvFS-0001dP-00 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:57:30 +0100 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1375 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CFvFP-0007s7-Ap (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:57:27 +0100 Message-ID: <41666D6D.9020205@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Judgement References: <416449AF.6030405@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Oct 8 14:58:05 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:35:25 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Oct 6 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > >> I call for the Judgement of the Pope on the following statement: >> >> 'The person referred to in Rule 18 is not Adam Biltcliffe but is in >> fact the person who judges this statement. There is a rule "Stuart is >> rather too drunk" which states "Stuart Moore is the Grand Vizier, who >> may change the game state as he wishes by publically declaring so, and >> may only be overruled by the person referred to in rule 18. This rule >> takes precedence over Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules"' > > > Rule 24, Judgement Procedure states that the Judgement of the Pope may > be invoked to determine 'the validity of a claim which refers solely to > the rules or gamestate'. This claim makes reference to 'the person who > judges this statement' which was a matter of neither the rules nor the > gamestate at the time the claim was made. I therefore judge that this > claim is not valid and so AN OFFENCE AGAINST GOD. > Yay. I may not be the Grand Vizier, but I got the best judgement type... But I hope it also makes my point that the judgement procedure as it stands could allow an arbitary statement to be declared true on someone's whim, when it really ought to be false... I'm not sure there's much we can do about it. Could a Judgement be invoked on "Judgement Foo is incorrect, and it's correct status should be..."? From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Mon Oct 11 17:00:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CH2ar-0002Qw-00 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:00:13 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45454) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.135]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CH2aj-0006EG-7C (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:00:05 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CH2aj-00033B-64 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:00:05 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [131.111.244.27] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] displeasure Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Oct 11 17:01:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 11 Oct 2004 17:00:05 +0100 Subjects, I can't help but note that we have yet to see any evidence of the Minister of Truth or the Chief Cashier performing any of their appointed duties. Should we expect to see anything any time soon? EE From mikec@mxtelecom.com Mon Oct 11 17:01:56 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CH2cW-0002tB-00 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:01:56 +0100 Received: from base.mxtelecom.com ([217.207.98.117]:43889 helo=chinook.mxtelecom.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CH2cQ-0000xI-K9 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:01:50 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.57] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CH2cJ-0005wF-VR for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:01:44 +0100 Message-ID: <416AAE9C.1050308@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] displeasure References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Oct 11 17:02:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:02:36 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Subjects, > > I can't help but note that we have yet to see any evidence of the > Minister of Truth or the Chief Cashier performing any of their appointed > duties. Should we expect to see anything any time soon? > > EE > I'm sick! But I'm Back In Business baby! Mike (Sneaky Git) From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Mon Oct 11 17:48:06 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CH3LC-0008FV-00 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:48:06 +0100 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1274 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CH3L5-0006qy-3r (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:47:59 +0100 Message-ID: <416AB943.6090400@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] displeasure References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Oct 11 17:49:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:48:03 +0100 Wot Mike said. I'll do something soon. I've got to run now, tomorrow should be doable. Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Subjects, > > I can't help but note that we have yet to see any evidence of the > Minister of Truth or the Chief Cashier performing any of their appointed > duties. Should we expect to see anything any time soon? > > EE > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Oct 19 15:34:58 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CJv4k-0004IZ-00 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:34:58 +0100 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1244 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CJv4f-0004sh-RN (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:34:53 +0100 Message-ID: <41752610.1070307@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Bank Balances Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Oct 19 15:35:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:34:56 +0100 All players have a bank balance of 17C, with the exception of Stuart Moore who has a bank balance of 16C due to moving to (1,0) on 6/10/04 From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Oct 19 15:56:48 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CJvPs-0005aw-00 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:56:48 +0100 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1253 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CJvPp-0001vT-I2 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:56:45 +0100 Message-ID: <41752AE6.506@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] The founding fathers (and mother) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Oct 19 15:57:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:55:34 +0100 This post contains a number of proposals. Proposal to create the rule "The founding fathers (and mother)" The list "The founding fathers (and mother)" contains the entities known as Adam Biltcliffe, Carrie Oliver, David Birch, John-Joseph Wilks, Jonathan Amery, Martin Lester, Martin O'Leary, Mike Cripps and Stuart Moore Proposal to create the rule "The Power of Veto" The "Veto holders" is the intersection of "The Founding fathers (and mother)" with the "List of Voters". If this set is non-empty, and at least one third of its members state that they veto a given proposal before it has obtained a Consensus of Opinion, then that proposal will never be able to obtain a Consensus of Opinion. This overrides Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion. A veto must be explicitly stated for each proposal. It is possible to vote against a proposal without vetoing it, and to veto a proposal whilst voting either for or against a proposal. Once a veto has been stated, it cannot be withdrawn. --End of proposals-- The idea is to ensure that if the game is opened up to other players we still retain some control over it. Once this (or something else) had gone through, I'd be happy to allow us to move to a method of voting that allowed majority rule. Stuart From happycarrie@gmail.com Tue Oct 19 16:01:46 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CJvUg-0005pE-00 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:01:46 +0100 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.199]:41903 helo=mproxy.gmail.com) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CJvUb-0004G3-CQ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:01:41 +0100 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v18so142745rnb for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:01:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=ctzTlvKQyv8iZUffmLLcctX4eQwjDbAI0kmR41mmje/cMdB3BAlTW7vC6tVmunb6voCmDYbFXipWUHY3p4n47+NXMdWCZTX0VpCGIhBZaEPEvdnPgUdSKbcrdbBMxBavPEOgfAhL82O9EH87PMbAYjEUU+sHaKsVCEmFHFGhfWI Received: by 10.38.206.72 with SMTP id d72mr1092415rng; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.17 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Bank Balances In-Reply-To: <41752610.1070307@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <41752610.1070307@cam.ac.uk> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Oct 19 16:02:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:01:34 +0100 On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:34:56 +0100, Stuart Moore wrote: > All players have a bank balance of 17C, with the exception of Stuart > Moore who has a bank balance of 16C due to moving to (1,0) on 6/10/04 Ummm.... no. There is no grid, so you can't have moved. Carrie > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk > From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Oct 19 16:04:59 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CJvXn-00065i-00 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:04:59 +0100 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1259 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CJvXk-0004Ja-Ii (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:04:56 +0100 Message-ID: <41752D15.7020809@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Bank Balances References: <41752610.1070307@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Oct 19 16:05:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:04:53 +0100 Carrie Oliver wrote: > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:34:56 +0100, Stuart Moore wrote: > >>All players have a bank balance of 17C, with the exception of Stuart >>Moore who has a bank balance of 16C due to moving to (1,0) on 6/10/04 > > > Ummm.... no. There is no grid, so you can't have moved. > Yet rule 30 suggests I can... hmm From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Tue Oct 19 20:05:19 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CJzIN-0003bJ-00 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:05:19 +0100 Received: from bay24-f8.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.58]:23266 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.145]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CJzIK-00007J-OJ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:05:16 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:05:03 -0700 Received: from 131.111.8.96 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:04:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [131.111.8.96] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Bank Balances Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2004 19:05:03.0110 (UTC) FILETIME=[89CFA260:01C4B60E] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Oct 19 20:06:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:04:07 +0100 > >Carrie Oliver wrote: > >>On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:34:56 +0100, Stuart Moore wrote: >> >>>All players have a bank balance of 17C, with the exception of Stuart >>>Moore who has a bank balance of 16C due to moving to (1,0) on 6/10/04 >> >> >>Ummm.... no. There is no grid, so you can't have moved. >> > >Yet rule 30 suggests I can... > >hmm You can spend the money, but there's no effect without a grid. Monkey, feel like consensusing the Grid anytime? JJ > > >_______________________________________________ >Nomic-talk mailing list >Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Tue Oct 19 20:31:28 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CJzhf-0004w3-00 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:31:27 +0100 Received: from bay24-f31.bay24.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.81]:30295 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CJzhc-0003Gb-2I (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:31:24 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:28:04 -0700 Received: from 131.111.8.96 by by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:27:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [131.111.8.96] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: RE: [Nomic] The founding fathers (and mother) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2004 19:28:04.0138 (UTC) FILETIME=[C0F7C8A0:01C4B611] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Oct 19 20:32:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:27:01 +0100 My own proposal, and a vote: Create the rule: "Elections" If there is ever a Ministry Post which is not occupied by an entity, then any member of the List of Voters may offer eirself as a candidate to fulfil that role. If within the next 24 hours no member of the List of Voters has expressed an explicit desire for it not to take place, and at least one member not the candidate has expressed consent, then the candidate shall take on the post. > >This post contains a number of proposals. > >Proposal to create the rule "The founding fathers (and mother)" > >The list "The founding fathers (and mother)" contains the entities known as >Adam Biltcliffe, Carrie Oliver, David Birch, John-Joseph Wilks, Jonathan >Amery, Martin Lester, Martin O'Leary, Mike Cripps and Stuart Moore > > >Proposal to create the rule "The Power of Veto" > >The "Veto holders" is the intersection of "The Founding fathers (and >mother)" with the "List of Voters". If this set is non-empty, and at least >one third of its members state that they veto a given proposal before it >has obtained a Consensus of Opinion, then that proposal will never be able >to obtain a Consensus of Opinion. This overrides Rule 4, Consensus of >Opinion. > >A veto must be explicitly stated for each proposal. It is possible to vote >against a proposal without vetoing it, and to veto a proposal whilst voting >either for or against a proposal. Once a veto has been stated, it cannot be >withdrawn. > >--End of proposals-- > >The idea is to ensure that if the game is opened up to other players we >still retain some control over it. Once this (or something else) had gone >through, I'd be happy to allow us to move to a method of voting that >allowed majority rule. Sounds good. I'll vote aye to both of those at the moment. > >Stuart > > >_______________________________________________ >Nomic-talk mailing list >Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org >http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 20 11:36:15 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CKDpH-00012o-00 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:36:15 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:60370) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CKDpB-00023a-DN (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:36:09 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CKDpB-0003Hk-CA for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:36:09 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] The founding fathers (and mother) X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [128.232.108.60] In-Reply-To: <41752AE6.506@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <41752AE6.506@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 20 11:37:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 20 Oct 2004 11:36:09 +0100 On Oct 19 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > This post contains a number of proposals. > > Proposal to create the rule "The founding fathers (and mother)" > > The list "The founding fathers (and mother)" contains the entities known > as Adam Biltcliffe, Carrie Oliver, David Birch, John-Joseph Wilks, > Jonathan Amery, Martin Lester, Martin O'Leary, Mike Cripps and Stuart > Moore Aye to this. > Proposal to create the rule "The Power of Veto" > > The "Veto holders" is the intersection of "The Founding fathers (and > mother)" with the "List of Voters". If this set is non-empty, and at > least one third of its members state that they veto a given proposal > before it has obtained a Consensus of Opinion, then that proposal will > never be able to obtain a Consensus of Opinion. This overrides Rule 4, > Consensus of Opinion. > > A veto must be explicitly stated for each proposal. It is possible to > vote against a proposal without vetoing it, and to veto a proposal > whilst voting either for or against a proposal. Once a veto has been > stated, it cannot be withdrawn. I can't say I'm ultimately in favour of this; it feels as though it might hamper the future evolution of the game, although that's probably not something worth worrying about right now. Nonetheless, I'll say aye to it now in order to get things going and we can see about changing them later if we want. EE From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 20 11:44:28 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CKDxE-0001Kx-00 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:44:28 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:34939) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.130]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CKDx0-0003zg-Jq (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:44:14 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CKDx0-0005Ku-E3 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:44:14 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: RE: [Nomic] The founding fathers (and mother) X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [128.232.108.60] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 20 11:45:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 20 Oct 2004 11:44:14 +0100 On Oct 19 2004, John-Joseph Wilks wrote: > My own proposal, and a vote: > > Create the rule: "Elections" > > If there is ever a Ministry Post which is not occupied by an entity, > then any member of the List of Voters may offer eirself as a candidate to > fulfil that role. If within the next 24 hours no member of the List of > Voters has expressed an explicit desire for it not to take place, and at > least one member not the candidate has expressed consent, then the > candidate shall take on the post. Aye, although 24 hours seems rather short. Can I suggest we also create a means for impeachment should it ever turn out to be necessary? It seems we have yet to hear anything from the Minister of Truth or the Minister of Perspicuity. Any possibility of reports soon? The Clerk of the Vatican also seems to be a bit behind; for example, I haven't yet seen the invocation I made in http://www.srcf.ucam.org/pipermail/nomic-talk/2004-October/000441.html assigned to a Pope, nor has the last judgement I passed been added to the Records. Also, if this passes it will be the first actual instance of Spivak pronouns in the rules. Since they're not part of standard English, ought we to define them? EE From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 20 15:06:49 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CKH73-0002r5-00 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:06:49 +0100 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1178) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:25) with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.43) id 1CKH6w-0007u5-Ds (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:06:42 +0100 Message-ID: <417670FC.2060308@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] The founding fathers (and mother) References: <41752AE6.506@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 20 15:07:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:06:52 +0100 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Oct 19 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > >> This post contains a number of proposals. >> >> Proposal to create the rule "The founding fathers (and mother)" >> >> The list "The founding fathers (and mother)" contains the entities >> known as Adam Biltcliffe, Carrie Oliver, David Birch, John-Joseph >> Wilks, Jonathan Amery, Martin Lester, Martin O'Leary, Mike Cripps and >> Stuart Moore > > > Aye to this. > >> Proposal to create the rule "The Power of Veto" >> >> The "Veto holders" is the intersection of "The Founding fathers (and >> mother)" with the "List of Voters". If this set is non-empty, and at >> least one third of its members state that they veto a given proposal >> before it has obtained a Consensus of Opinion, then that proposal will >> never be able to obtain a Consensus of Opinion. This overrides Rule 4, >> Consensus of Opinion. >> >> A veto must be explicitly stated for each proposal. It is possible to >> vote against a proposal without vetoing it, and to veto a proposal >> whilst voting either for or against a proposal. Once a veto has been >> stated, it cannot be withdrawn. > > > I can't say I'm ultimately in favour of this; it feels as though it > might hamper the future evolution of the game, although that's probably > not something worth worrying about right now. Nonetheless, I'll say aye > to it now in order to get things going and we can see about changing > them later if we want. Cheers. I take the point that it doesn't allow as much flexibility as some systems (e.g. simple majority) but it paves the way to allowing more flexibility than we already have (taking 3 people to veto rather than 1 is an improvement IMHO) From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Oct 26 16:07:51 2004 Received: from ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.132]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CMSvP-0004uf-00 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:07:51 +0100 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1346) by ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.152]:25) with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.43) id 1CMSvF-0000in-2T (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:07:41 +0100 Message-ID: <417E6840.40509@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] By the power of the Rule of Handles... Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Oct 26 16:08:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:07:44 +0100 By the power of the Rule of Handles, I declare my pseudonym to be "The Founding fathers (and mother)" From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Oct 26 16:08:04 2004 Received: from ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.132]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CMSvc-0004x0-00 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:08:04 +0100 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1347) by ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.152]:25) with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.43) id 1CMSvV-0000kr-Ep (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:07:57 +0100 Message-ID: <417E6846.5000804@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] The founding fathers (and mother) References: <41752AE6.506@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <41752AE6.506@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Oct 26 16:09:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:07:50 +0100 This is a notice of consensus printed on a rather smug looking yellow piece of paper. The following proposal has passed: Proposal to create the rule "The Power of Veto" The "Veto holders" is the intersection of "The Founding fathers (and mother)" with the "List of Voters". If this set is non-empty, and at least one third of its members state that they veto a given proposal before it has obtained a Consensus of Opinion, then that proposal will never be able to obtain a Consensus of Opinion. This overrides Rule 4, Consensus of Opinion. A veto must be explicitly stated for each proposal. It is possible to vote against a proposal without vetoing it, and to veto a proposal whilst voting either for or against a proposal. Once a veto has been stated, it cannot be withdrawn. From stjm2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 27 14:00:20 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CMnPX-0006Ny-00 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:00:19 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:55682) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CMnPU-0002mQ-I7 (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:00:16 +0100 Received: from stjm2 (helo=localhost) by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CMnPU-0000J5-Fs for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:00:16 +0100 From: Stuart Moore X-X-Sender: stjm2@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Application to be Pope Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 27 14:01:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:00:16 +0100 (BST) I wish to make it known that I am willing to act as Pope From stjm2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 27 14:06:01 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CMnV2-0006mi-00 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:06:00 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:58184) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.130]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CMnUu-0006QU-El (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:05:52 +0100 Received: from stjm2 (helo=localhost) by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CMnUt-0001h4-O7 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:05:52 +0100 From: Stuart Moore X-X-Sender: stjm2@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Proposal Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 27 14:06:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:05:51 +0100 (BST) Proposal for the creation of the rule "The Floberygibbut of Manchester (South) and his many taco shells, what?" If a player has a pseudonym in the List of Handles, they may chose to unset this name by paying 3C. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 27 14:14:46 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CMndW-0007Ny-00 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:14:46 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:33104) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CMndN-0006Rv-3P (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:14:37 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CMndN-0003od-1X for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:14:37 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [128.232.108.63] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 27 14:15:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 27 Oct 2004 14:14:36 +0100 On Oct 27 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Proposal for the creation of the rule "The Floberygibbut of Manchester > (South) and his many taco shells, what?" > > If a player has a pseudonym in the List of Handles, they may chose to > unset this name by paying 3C. No, no, no, no, no. We've seen too many uses of Malenkai's Loophole already. And I'd like pseudonyms to be persistent so that the bookkeeping makes sense. EE From stjm2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 27 14:17:00 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CMnfg-0007Vf-00 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:17:00 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:33810) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CMnfZ-0002BP-Ok (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:16:53 +0100 Received: from stjm2 (helo=localhost) by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CMnX7-0002HK-V7 for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:08:09 +0100 From: Stuart Moore X-X-Sender: stjm2@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 27 14:17:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:08:09 +0100 (BST) On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > Proposal for the creation of the rule "The Floberygibbut of Manchester > (South) and his many taco shells, what?" > > If a player has a pseudonym in the List of Handles, they may chose to unset > this name by paying 3C. I both vote for and veto this proposal, because I probably can... From stjm2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 27 14:18:03 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CMngh-0007Z3-00 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:18:03 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:34196) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CMnga-00034H-UH (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:17:57 +0100 Received: from stjm2 (helo=localhost) by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CMnWg-0002Af-GS for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:07:43 +0100 From: Stuart Moore X-X-Sender: stjm2@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 27 14:19:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:07:42 +0100 (BST) Proposal for the creation of the rule "The Floberygibbut of Manchester (South) and his many taco shells, what? No, really this time without the mistakes. Haha boom" If a player has a pseudonym in the List of Handles, they may chose to unset this pseudonym by paying 3C. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 27 14:30:54 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CMnt8-00008n-00 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:30:54 +0100 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:38463) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]:25) with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CMnt6-0001yY-MQ (return-path ) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:30:52 +0100 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CMnsw-0007fF-La for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:30:42 +0100 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [128.232.108.63] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 27 14:31:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 27 Oct 2004 14:30:42 +0100 On Oct 27 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > > Proposal for the creation of the rule "The Floberygibbut of Manchester > (South) and his many taco shells, what? No, really this time without > the mistakes. Haha boom" > > If a player has a pseudonym in the List of Handles, they may chose to > unset this pseudonym by paying 3C. Still no. EE From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Nov 19 23:20:55 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CVI3j-0001A5-00 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:20:55 +0000 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:45817) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.134]:25) with esmtp id 1CVI3h-0002Iq-EZ (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:20:53 +0000 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CVI3h-0007Wx-Fm for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:20:53 +0000 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [131.111.244.27] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Imperial Proclamation #4 Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Nov 19 23:21:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 19 Nov 2004 23:20:53 +0000 As Emperor, I declare that the following rule shall come into existence: ----------- Rule 33, The Rule Of Endings Should there be no activity on the nomic-talk email list for a continuous period of one week, the game will immediately end and Adam Biltcliffe will be declared the winner. ----------- EE From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Sat Nov 20 02:30:49 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CVL1V-00075k-00 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:30:49 +0000 Received: from mewoleary.joh.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.237.249]:37453) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.155]:25) with esmtpsa (LOGIN:mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1CVL1U-0003ay-HJ (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:30:48 +0000 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Imperial Proclamation #4 From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1100917847.10850.5.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Nov 20 02:31:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:30:47 +0000 Adam is a smelly poo. Discuss. From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sat Nov 20 02:33:49 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CVL4P-0007AQ-00 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:33:49 +0000 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1920) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.156]:25) with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1CVL4M-0004Yk-MH (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:33:46 +0000 Message-ID: <419EAD0A.7030005@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Imperial Proclamation #4 References: <1100917847.10850.5.camel@mewo2> In-Reply-To: <1100917847.10850.5.camel@mewo2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Nov 20 02:34:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:33:46 +0000 Martin O'Leary wrote: > Adam is a smelly poo. Discuss. Adam is a smelly poo discus? What'd happen if you throw one of those? I wouldn't worry, I'm setting up a cronjob to make sure it never comes to pass... > > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Sat Nov 20 02:36:34 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CVL74-0007Dh-00 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:36:34 +0000 Received: from mewoleary.joh.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.237.249]:37486) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.153]:25) with esmtpsa (LOGIN:mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1CVL72-0007AV-Ba (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:36:32 +0000 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Imperial Proclamation #4 From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: <419EAD0A.7030005@cam.ac.uk> References: <1100917847.10850.5.camel@mewo2> <419EAD0A.7030005@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1100918191.10850.9.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Nov 20 02:37:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:36:32 +0000 On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 02:33, Stuart Moore wrote: > Martin O'Leary wrote: > > Adam is a smelly poo. Discuss. > > Adam is a smelly poo discus? What'd happen if you throw one of those? > Well, I would imagine it would cause you to smell a bit. Not that this would be an issue for Mr Biltcliffe, given that he SMELLS LIKE FAECES. From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sat Nov 20 02:38:41 2004 Received: from ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.132]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CVL97-0007HR-00 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:38:41 +0000 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1942) by ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.152]:25) with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1CVL95-00053n-8Q (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:38:39 +0000 Message-ID: <419EAE2F.8070801@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Imperial Proclamation #4 References: <1100917847.10850.5.camel@mewo2> <419EAD0A.7030005@cam.ac.uk> <1100918191.10850.9.camel@mewo2> In-Reply-To: <1100918191.10850.9.camel@mewo2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Nov 20 02:39:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:38:39 +0000 Martin O'Leary wrote: > On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 02:33, Stuart Moore wrote: > >>Martin O'Leary wrote: >> >>>Adam is a smelly poo. Discuss. >> >>Adam is a smelly poo discus? What'd happen if you throw one of those? >> > > Well, I would imagine it would cause you to smell a bit. Not that this > would be an issue for Mr Biltcliffe, given that he SMELLS LIKE FAECES. You mean he smells by using his nose? That doesn't seem that surprising to me From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Sat Nov 20 02:46:28 2004 Received: from ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.132]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CVLGe-0007So-00 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:46:28 +0000 Received: from mewoleary.joh.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.237.249]:37487) by ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.152]:25) with esmtpsa (LOGIN:mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1CVLGS-0005vD-9Y (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:46:16 +0000 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Imperial Proclamation #4 From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: <419EAE2F.8070801@cam.ac.uk> References: <1100917847.10850.5.camel@mewo2> <419EAD0A.7030005@cam.ac.uk> <1100918191.10850.9.camel@mewo2> <419EAE2F.8070801@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1100918776.10850.11.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Nov 20 02:47:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:46:16 +0000 On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 02:38, Stuart Moore wrote: > Martin O'Leary wrote: > > > On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 02:33, Stuart Moore wrote: > > > >>Martin O'Leary wrote: > >> > >>>Adam is a smelly poo. Discuss. > >> > >>Adam is a smelly poo discus? What'd happen if you throw one of those? > >> > > > > Well, I would imagine it would cause you to smell a bit. Not that this > > would be an issue for Mr Biltcliffe, given that he SMELLS LIKE FAECES. > > You mean he smells by using his nose? That doesn't seem that surprising > to me Your faeces has a nose? What have you been eating? From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sat Nov 20 02:48:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.132]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CVLIQ-0007Va-00 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:48:18 +0000 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1960) by ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.152]:25) with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1CVLIJ-0006F7-8r (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:48:11 +0000 Message-ID: <419EB06B.80702@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Imperial Proclamation #4 References: <1100917847.10850.5.camel@mewo2> <419EAD0A.7030005@cam.ac.uk> <1100918191.10850.9.camel@mewo2> <419EAE2F.8070801@cam.ac.uk> <1100918776.10850.11.camel@mewo2> In-Reply-To: <1100918776.10850.11.camel@mewo2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Nov 20 02:49:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:48:11 +0000 Martin O'Leary wrote: > On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 02:38, Stuart Moore wrote: > >>Martin O'Leary wrote: >> >> >>>On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 02:33, Stuart Moore wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Martin O'Leary wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Adam is a smelly poo. Discuss. >>>> >>>>Adam is a smelly poo discus? What'd happen if you throw one of those? >>>> >>> >>>Well, I would imagine it would cause you to smell a bit. Not that this >>>would be an issue for Mr Biltcliffe, given that he SMELLS LIKE FAECES. >> >>You mean he smells by using his nose? That doesn't seem that surprising >>to me > > > Your faeces has a nose? What have you been eating? > Faces have a nose. And large amounts of crisps and jaffa cakes, as you should know, although I might go and make a BLT baguette with sausage and cheese now everyone has left... From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Sat Nov 20 02:53:17 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CVLNE-0007g2-00 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:53:16 +0000 Received: from mewoleary.joh.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.237.249]:37488) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:25) with esmtpsa (LOGIN:mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1CVLND-0003YL-RU (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:53:15 +0000 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Imperial Proclamation #4 From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: <419EB06B.80702@cam.ac.uk> References: <1100917847.10850.5.camel@mewo2> <419EAD0A.7030005@cam.ac.uk> <1100918191.10850.9.camel@mewo2> <419EAE2F.8070801@cam.ac.uk> <1100918776.10850.11.camel@mewo2> <419EB06B.80702@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1100919194.10850.13.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Nov 20 02:54:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:53:15 +0000 On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 02:48, Stuart Moore wrote: > Martin O'Leary wrote: > > > On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 02:38, Stuart Moore wrote: > > > >>Martin O'Leary wrote: > >> > >> > >>>On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 02:33, Stuart Moore wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>Martin O'Leary wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Adam is a smelly poo. Discuss. > >>>> > >>>>Adam is a smelly poo discus? What'd happen if you throw one of those? > >>>> > >>> > >>>Well, I would imagine it would cause you to smell a bit. Not that this > >>>would be an issue for Mr Biltcliffe, given that he SMELLS LIKE FAECES. > >> > >>You mean he smells by using his nose? That doesn't seem that surprising > >>to me > > > > > > Your faeces has a nose? What have you been eating? > > > > Faces have a nose. And large amounts of crisps and jaffa cakes, as you > should know, although I might go and make a BLT baguette with sausage > and cheese now everyone has left... You really should learn the difference between faces and faeces before you start talking shit. From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sat Nov 20 02:57:27 2004 Received: from ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.132]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CVLRH-0007nC-00 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:57:27 +0000 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1983) by ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.152]:25) with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1CVLRE-0007Od-8H (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:57:24 +0000 Message-ID: <419EB294.1050501@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Imperial Proclamation #4 References: <1100917847.10850.5.camel@mewo2> <419EAD0A.7030005@cam.ac.uk> <1100918191.10850.9.camel@mewo2> <419EAE2F.8070801@cam.ac.uk> <1100918776.10850.11.camel@mewo2> <419EB06B.80702@cam.ac.uk> <1100919194.10850.13.camel@mewo2> In-Reply-To: <1100919194.10850.13.camel@mewo2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Nov 20 02:58:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:57:24 +0000 Martin O'Leary wrote: > On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 02:48, Stuart Moore wrote: > >>Martin O'Leary wrote: >> >> >>>On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 02:38, Stuart Moore wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Martin O'Leary wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 02:33, Stuart Moore wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Martin O'Leary wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Adam is a smelly poo. Discuss. >>>>>> >>>>>>Adam is a smelly poo discus? What'd happen if you throw one of those? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Well, I would imagine it would cause you to smell a bit. Not that this >>>>>would be an issue for Mr Biltcliffe, given that he SMELLS LIKE FAECES. >>>> >>>>You mean he smells by using his nose? That doesn't seem that surprising >>>>to me >>> >>> >>>Your faeces has a nose? What have you been eating? >>> >> >>Faces have a nose. And large amounts of crisps and jaffa cakes, as you >>should know, although I might go and make a BLT baguette with sausage >>and cheese now everyone has left... > > > You really should learn the difference between faces and faeces before > you start talking shit. > So's your mother From stjm2@srcf.ucam.org Thu Nov 25 00:00:03 2004 Received: from stjm2 by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CX73K-0003Ll-00 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 00:00:02 +0000 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Message-Id: From: Stuart Moore Subject: [Nomic] This email is just to piss Adam off Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Nov 25 00:11:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 00:00:02 +0000 foo From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sat Nov 27 12:58:30 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CY29m-0007Q9-00 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:58:30 +0000 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1126) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.155]:25) with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1CY29e-00057A-IF (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:58:22 +0000 Message-ID: <41A879FF.8080003@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] Proposal Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Nov 27 12:59:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:58:39 +0000 De namer de gamer ist Deutscher Erotica Auf Mine Links, YAAAAAAAAAAAARRRR! From mewo2@cam.ac.uk Sat Nov 27 13:19:14 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CY2Tq-00006y-00 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:19:14 +0000 Received: from mewoleary.joh.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.237.249]:51421) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.156]:25) with esmtpsa (LOGIN:mewo2) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1CY2To-00060t-Ll (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:19:12 +0000 Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal From: Martin O'Leary To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org In-Reply-To: <41A879FF.8080003@cam.ac.uk> References: <41A879FF.8080003@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1101561552.2926.12.camel@mewo2> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 (1.4.6-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Nov 27 13:20:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:19:12 +0000 On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 12:58, Stuart Moore wrote: > De namer de gamer ist Deutscher Erotica > Auf Mine Links, > > YAAAAAAAAAAAARRRR! Dear Lord you can't spell. From stjm2@srcf.ucam.org Sun Nov 28 00:00:03 2004 Received: from stjm2 by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CYCTz-0001Z3-00 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 00:00:03 +0000 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Message-Id: From: Stuart Moore Subject: [Nomic] This email is just to piss Adam off Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Nov 28 00:01:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 00:00:03 +0000 foo From stjm2@srcf.ucam.org Wed Dec 01 00:00:02 2004 Received: from stjm2 by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CZHuc-0007WF-00 for ; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 00:00:02 +0000 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Message-Id: From: Stuart Moore Subject: [Nomic] This email is just to piss Adam off Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 1 00:01:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 00:00:02 +0000 foo From stjm2@srcf.ucam.org Sat Dec 04 00:00:02 2004 Received: from stjm2 by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CaNLG-00062k-00 for ; Sat, 04 Dec 2004 00:00:02 +0000 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Message-Id: From: Stuart Moore Subject: [Nomic] This email is just to piss Adam off Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Dec 4 00:01:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 00:00:02 +0000 foo From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Thu Dec 09 22:36:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CcWtW-0003qo-00 for ; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 22:36:18 +0000 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:3044) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.155]:25) with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1CcWtV-0003Sd-GH (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Thu, 09 Dec 2004 22:36:17 +0000 Message-ID: <41B8D362.8010705@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal References: <41A879FF.8080003@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <41A879FF.8080003@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Dec 9 22:37:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 22:36:18 +0000 This is a notice of consensus printed on yellow paper. There's a watermark too. The following rule should be entered into the ruleset Rule 33: NULL De namer de gamer ist Deutscher Erotica Auf Mine Links, YAAAAAAAAAAAARRRR! Although I guess most people couldn't care less... ho hum From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Dec 10 00:37:48 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CcYn6-0004fO-00 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:37:48 +0000 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:46719) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.156]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:amgb2) id 1CcYn3-0005HM-M6 (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:37:45 +0000 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local (PRAYER:amgb2) id 1CcYn3-0006it-6p (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:37:45 +0000 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Proposal X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [131.111.205.243] In-Reply-To: <41B8D362.8010705@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <41A879FF.8080003@cam.ac.uk> <41B8D362.8010705@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Dec 10 00:38:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 10 Dec 2004 00:37:44 +0000 On Dec 9 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > This is a notice of consensus printed on yellow paper. There's a > watermark too. > > The following rule should be entered into the ruleset > > Rule 33: NULL > De namer de gamer ist Deutscher Erotica > Auf Mine Links, > > YAAAAAAAAAAAARRRR! No, no, no. You're all wrong. By precedent of Papal judgement, I made a statement a while ago which was agreed to have constituted blanket objection to all past or future proposals which I didn't explicitly agree to, such as this one. Therefore, I declare you guilty of Taking Insufficient Notice. EE From happycarrie@gmail.com Tue Dec 14 15:50:38 2004 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CeEwg-0004ZA-00 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:50:38 +0000 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.195]:10704) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp id 1CeEwS-0006rQ-2B (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:50:24 +0000 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 1so76863rny for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:50:20 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=EkUgiCgCxnUK6fNRZ0rEjcfyz80prjjh0rq0Jecm0dWN+vRWbZ0X3+51kaFFDDcmJC6ggv0bQRqxq2uQeWjU1VHMO2sqGw8ZZofIxYWhTUzp+qd4MmdPujguW5LuJIEXPTSR+UcUdMIvtLqTbJEudvs7JKdU10u/Fs/v99xAmWE= Received: by 10.38.1.62 with SMTP id 62mr36541rna; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:50:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.8.7 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:50:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: Nomic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Subject: [Nomic] Some rules Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Dec 14 15:51:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:50:20 +0000 Hey, its about time something happened so I have been busy inventing some rules, even if they are not very good they may atleast get this going again... ------------------------- Board again! There is a square board of size 30x30 with spaces numbered along each axis from 0 to 29, henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of entities upon it, shall be considered part of the state of the game. All members on the List of Voters shall have a location on the Board at any one time. ------------------------- This is the world as we know it, and I feel fine. The board consists entiry of water to begin with except at the points the players, that is to say members on the List of Voters, start which are considered to contain small sandy islands to avoid drowning. Players begin at points selected by themselves. ------------------------- There be pirates in this game, Yarrrrr! All players in this game are considered to be aboard ships and are pirates! The ships are all of equal size initially (that is to say rubber dingyies) though the colour maybe selected as may the name of the ship. This information shall be stored in a list, henceforth known as the List of Pirates. Boats maybe moored along side an island. ------------------------- The coordinates of power. There shall be a list avaliable to all players of the location of all islands currently present on the map and of all players current coordinates. This list shall be known as the List of Locations. ------------------------ The Navigator There shall be a member of the ministry who's job is to unhold the rule of the coordinates of power. They shall hold the List of Locations and supply updated copies upon request by a member of the List of Voters. This shall initially be Carrie Oliver. ----------------------- There you go, have fun! :) Carrie From mikec@mxtelecom.com Tue Dec 14 15:56:20 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CeF2C-0004nr-00 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:56:20 +0000 Received: from chinook.mxtelecom.com ([82.110.36.82]:58805) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp id 1CeF1w-0000dn-FV (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:56:04 +0000 Received: from hostess.mxtelecom.com ([192.168.2.116] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CeF1u-0005Ta-Hz for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:56:02 +0000 Message-ID: <41BF0CF3.7070601@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Some rules References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Dec 14 15:57:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:55:31 +0000 Carrie Oliver wrote: > Hey, its about time something happened so I have been busy inventing > some rules, even if they are not very good they may atleast get this > going again... > > ------------------------- > > Board again! > > There is a square board of size 30x30 with spaces numbered along each > axis from 0 to 29, > henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of entities upon it, > shall be considered part of the state of the game. All members on the > List of Voters shall > have a location on the Board at any one time. > > ------------------------- > > This is the world as we know it, and I feel fine. > > The board consists entiry of water to begin with except at the points > the players, that > is to say members on the List of Voters, start which are considered to > contain small > sandy islands to avoid drowning. Players begin at points selected by themselves. > > ------------------------- > > There be pirates in this game, Yarrrrr! > > All players in this game are considered to be aboard ships and are pirates! > The ships are all of equal size initially (that is to say rubber > dingyies) though the > colour maybe selected as may the name of the ship. This information > shall be stored in > a list, henceforth known as the List of Pirates. Boats maybe moored > along side an island. > > ------------------------- > > The coordinates of power. > > There shall be a list avaliable to all players of the location of all > islands currently > present on the map and of all players current coordinates. This list > shall be known as the > List of Locations. > > ------------------------ > > The Navigator > > There shall be a member of the ministry who's job is to unhold the > rule of the coordinates > of power. They shall hold the List of Locations and supply updated > copies upon request > by a member of the List of Voters. This shall initially be Carrie Oliver. > > ----------------------- > > There you go, have fun! :) > > Carrie > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk I vote AYE to all these proposals. From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Tue Dec 14 17:13:18 2004 Received: from ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.132]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CeGEg-0000P6-00 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:13:18 +0000 Received: from pc122.hughes.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.196.217]:1571) by ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.152]:25) with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1CeGEb-0001xY-83 (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:13:13 +0000 Message-ID: <41BF1F2D.70905@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Some rules References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Dec 14 17:14:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:13:17 +0000 Carrie Oliver wrote: > Hey, its about time something happened so I have been busy inventing > some rules, even if they are not very good they may atleast get this > going again... > > ------------------------- > > Board again! > > There is a square board of size 30x30 with spaces numbered along each > axis from 0 to 29, > henceforth known as The Board. The Board, and the location of entities upon it, > shall be considered part of the state of the game. All members on the > List of Voters shall > have a location on the Board at any one time. > > ------------------------- > > This is the world as we know it, and I feel fine. > > The board consists entiry of water to begin with except at the points > the players, that > is to say members on the List of Voters, start which are considered to > contain small > sandy islands to avoid drowning. Players begin at points selected by themselves. > > ------------------------- > > There be pirates in this game, Yarrrrr! > > All players in this game are considered to be aboard ships and are pirates! > The ships are all of equal size initially (that is to say rubber > dingyies) though the > colour maybe selected as may the name of the ship. This information > shall be stored in > a list, henceforth known as the List of Pirates. Boats maybe moored > along side an island. > > ------------------------- > > The coordinates of power. > > There shall be a list avaliable to all players of the location of all > islands currently > present on the map and of all players current coordinates. This list > shall be known as the > List of Locations. > > ------------------------ > > The Navigator > > There shall be a member of the ministry who's job is to unhold the > rule of the coordinates > of power. They shall hold the List of Locations and supply updated > copies upon request > by a member of the List of Voters. This shall initially be Carrie Oliver. > > ----------------------- > > There you go, have fun! :) > > Carrie > I vote "Arrrrrrrrrrrrr" to all these proposals, and lose the game. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Dec 15 16:44:40 2004 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CecGW-0001ck-00 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:44:40 +0000 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:39774) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.153]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:amgb2) id 1CecGT-0002pl-B2 (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:44:37 +0000 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local (PRAYER:amgb2) id 1CecGT-00064c-A8 (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:44:37 +0000 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Some rules X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [131.111.244.27] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 15 16:45:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 15 Dec 2004 16:44:37 +0000 On Dec 14 2004, Carrie Oliver wrote: > Hey, its about time something happened so I have been busy inventing > some rules, even if they are not very good they may atleast get this > going again... > > Board again! > This is the world as we know it, and I feel fine. > There be pirates in this game, Yarrrrr! > The coordinates of power. > The Navigator I vote in favour of all the above-named proposals. I have a couple of minor issues with the phrasing of the last one, but in the interests of expediency I shall allow it to pass and propose the following rule myself: ---------- The Navigator II If at any point a rule exists whose name ends with 'The Navigator', the following two changes shall be made to the rules, overriding Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules: 1) The rule in question shall be altered to read as follows: "The duty of the Navigator shall be to make the contents of the List of Locations available to all players upon request." 2) The rule 'The Navigator II' shall be deleted from the ruleset. ---------- I also propose a new rule: ---------- Casting Adrift If a player has not selected an initial location on the Board within three days of the point at which that player could first have done so, any other player may declare that player to be 'cast adrift' at any non-island location on the board, which becomes the adrift player's new location. Rather than the starting situation specified in 'This is the world as we know it, and I feel fine' and 'There be pirates in this game, Yarrrrr!', the adrift player's location shall *not* be an island, and their ship shall be a 'small plank of wood'. ---------- From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Dec 15 16:53:27 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CecP1-0001vf-00 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:53:27 +0000 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:42001) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.156]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:amgb2) id 1CecOx-00071k-M2 (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:53:23 +0000 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local (PRAYER:amgb2) id 1CecOx-0007tT-Q2 (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:53:23 +0000 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [131.111.244.27] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] one more Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 15 16:54:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 15 Dec 2004 16:53:23 +0000 Also, if we're kicking off again, I suggest the following rule: ---------- Sanity Check If the perception of the state of the game which is commonly held by all players is called into question by something which happened at least two weeks previously, the previous perception shall be held to be correct, even if it later shown to have been invalid. ---------- Basically: mistakes which no-one notices for more than two weeks can be ignored, for the sake of sanity. EE From happycarrie@gmail.com Wed Dec 15 18:35:01 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CedzJ-0006Oa-00 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:35:01 +0000 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.194]:2662) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp id 1CedzF-0008LZ-RH (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:34:57 +0000 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 40so566692rnz for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:34:54 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=Bh90uQ1gsb8VjaW0ppqG9HeUOq/BuRV/bdJMs5V7KfVKc5yKZ6IWIukqrgFZg1KXpLEYdzLBDI431O+IqUPfWDWWApe53ptrghJ9mjHuNVw7xdo6oXgPOvL4gV3HNwf7QvvFbBgg2tydHSdW0nvwe8RRDFkm3/JotohiGamPIlY= Received: by 10.38.8.44 with SMTP id 44mr409897rnh; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.8.7 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:34:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] one more In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 15 18:36:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:34:54 +0000 On 15 Dec 2004 16:53:23 +0000, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Also, if we're kicking off again, I suggest the following rule: > > ---------- > Sanity Check > > If the perception of the state of the game which is commonly held by all > players is called into question by something which happened at least two > weeks previously, the previous perception shall be held to be correct, even > if it later shown to have been invalid. ---------- > > Basically: mistakes which no-one notices for more than two weeks can be > ignored, for the sake of sanity. > > EE > I vote aye From happycarrie@gmail.com Wed Dec 15 18:40:26 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Cee4Y-0006Xj-00 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:40:26 +0000 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.202]:14973) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.148]:25) with esmtp id 1Cee4U-0000hy-Sc (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:40:22 +0000 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 40so566955rnz for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:40:21 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=OVpax9mlWANKDW70ud0Z1aZfeEft2tQ80+F6iQe0CSAzfD1Ag8GWooSJM2TSrQ48dRfYsGSGwwIHjnNEJGsWd5P205c1krxOzeeTE62MV2n/ehM4Me+mAZ9laNkBDSp53eyy1m+bwc81VaVY9eRA5JLXrHOcEDRl6WG5XpLK7qo= Received: by 10.38.8.45 with SMTP id 45mr1016220rnh; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:40:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.8.7 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:40:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Some rules In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 15 18:41:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:40:21 +0000 On 15 Dec 2004 16:44:37 +0000, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Dec 14 2004, Carrie Oliver wrote: > > > Hey, its about time something happened so I have been busy inventing > > some rules, even if they are not very good they may atleast get this > > going again... > > > > Board again! > > This is the world as we know it, and I feel fine. > > There be pirates in this game, Yarrrrr! > > The coordinates of power. > > The Navigator > > I vote in favour of all the above-named proposals. I have a couple of minor > issues with the phrasing of the last one, but in the interests of > expediency I shall allow it to pass and propose the following rule myself: > > ---------- > The Navigator II > > If at any point a rule exists whose name ends with 'The Navigator', the > following two changes shall be made to the rules, overriding Rule 2, > Mutability of the Rules: > > 1) The rule in question shall be altered to read as follows: > > "The duty of the Navigator shall be to make the contents of the List of > Locations available to all players upon request." > > 2) The rule 'The Navigator II' shall be deleted from the ruleset. > ---------- > > I also propose a new rule: > > ---------- > Casting Adrift > > If a player has not selected an initial location on the Board within three > days of the point at which that player could first have done so, any other > player may declare that player to be 'cast adrift' at any non-island > location on the board, which becomes the adrift player's new location. > > Rather than the starting situation specified in 'This is the world as we > know it, and I feel fine' and 'There be pirates in this game, Yarrrrr!', > the adrift player's location shall *not* be an island, and their ship shall > be a 'small plank of wood'. ---------- > I vote aye to casting adrift. Does Navigator II not mean that there is no longer a specified navigator? Carrie From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Dec 15 18:46:16 2004 Received: from ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.132]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CeeAC-0006jC-00 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:46:16 +0000 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:36361) by ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.152]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:amgb2) id 1CeeA7-0004k8-7w (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:46:11 +0000 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local (PRAYER:amgb2) id 1CeeA7-0002Pk-E6 (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:46:11 +0000 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] Some rules X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [131.111.244.27] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 15 18:47:02 2004 X-Original-Date: 15 Dec 2004 18:46:11 +0000 On Dec 15 2004, Carrie Oliver wrote: > Does Navigator II not mean that there is no longer a specified navigator? Umm ... I should perhaps have thought about this some more, but I think your rule should make you the Navigator, then get rewritten. The rule won't say who's Navigator any more, but that's ok, because it'll still be you unless something changes it. adam From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Thu Dec 16 15:02:22 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Cex94-0005qt-00 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:02:22 +0000 Received: from bay104-f5.bay104.hotmail.com ([65.54.175.15]:60833 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp id 1Cex8u-00014O-Cv (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:02:12 +0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 07:02:03 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 80.3.0.40 by by104fd.bay104.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:01:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.40] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] Some rules Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Dec 2004 15:02:03.0989 (UTC) FILETIME=[33EFD050:01C4E380] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER 0.00) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Dec 16 15:03:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:01:29 +0000 >>Hey, its about time something happened so I have been busy inventing >>some rules, even if they are not very good they may atleast get this >>going again... >> >>Board again! >>This is the world as we know it, and I feel fine. >>There be pirates in this game, Yarrrrr! >>The coordinates of power. >>The Navigator > >I vote in favour of all the above-named proposals. I have a couple of minor >issues with the phrasing of the last one, but in the interests of >expediency I shall allow it to pass and propose the following rule myself: > I vote Aye, modulo spellings and typos when they actually enter into the rules. I'm afraid I cannot accept them entering with them in, I don't even want to *think* about how exploitable they might be. Did we ever get the rules that allowed movement on theBoard and suchlike passed? >---------- >The Navigator II > >If at any point a rule exists whose name ends with 'The Navigator', the >following two changes shall be made to the rules, overriding Rule 2, >Mutability of the Rules: > >1) The rule in question shall be altered to read as follows: > >"The duty of the Navigator shall be to make the contents of the List of >Locations available to all players upon request." > >2) The rule 'The Navigator II' shall be deleted from the ruleset. >---------- > Aye. > >I also propose a new rule: > >---------- >Casting Adrift > >If a player has not selected an initial location on the Board within three >days of the point at which that player could first have done so, any other >player may declare that player to be 'cast adrift' at any non-island >location on the board, which becomes the adrift player's new location. > >Rather than the starting situation specified in 'This is the world as we >know it, and I feel fine' and 'There be pirates in this game, Yarrrrr!', >the adrift player's location shall *not* be an island, and their ship shall >be a 'small plank of wood'. ---------- > > Aye again, and also to Sanity Check from the next post. From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Dec 22 12:20:02 2004 Received: from ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.132]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Ch5TG-0006Jw-00 for ; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 12:20:02 +0000 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:52209) by ppsw-2.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.152]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:amgb2) id 1Ch5T3-0003Wq-7g (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Wed, 22 Dec 2004 12:19:49 +0000 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local (PRAYER:amgb2) id 1Ch5T3-0007HG-BE (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Wed, 22 Dec 2004 12:19:49 +0000 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.184.225] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] notices of consensus Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 22 12:21:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Dec 2004 12:19:49 +0000 This is a Notice of Consensus, printed on lime green paper, for the following rule, which shall now be added to the ruleset: ---------- The Navigator II If at any point a rule exists whose name ends with 'The Navigator', the following two changes shall be made to the rules, overriding Rule 2, Mutability of the Rules: 1) The rule in question shall be altered to read as follows: "The duty of the Navigator shall be to make the contents of the List of Locations available to all players upon request." 2) The rule 'The Navigator II' shall be deleted from the ruleset. ---------- This is a Notice of Consensus, printed on electric blue paper, for the following rule, which shall now be added to the ruleset: ---------- Casting Adrift If a player has not selected an initial location on the Board within three days of the point at which that player could first have done so, any other player may declare that player to be 'cast adrift' at any non-island location on the board, which becomes the adrift player's new location. Rather than the starting situation specified in 'This is the world as we know it, and I feel fine' and 'There be pirates in this game, Yarrrrr!', the adrift player's location shall *not* be an island, and their ship shall be a 'small plank of wood'. ---------- This is a Notice of Consensus, printed on shiny silver paper, for the following rule, which shall now be added to the ruleset: ---------- Sanity Check If the perception of the state of the game which is commonly held by all players is called into question by something which happened at least two weeks previously, the previous perception shall be held to be correct, even if it later shown to have been invalid. ---------- EE From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Dec 22 12:35:10 2004 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Ch5hu-0000Ws-00 for ; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 12:35:10 +0000 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:54882) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:amgb2) id 1Ch5hs-00046D-RJ (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Wed, 22 Dec 2004 12:35:08 +0000 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local (PRAYER:amgb2) id 1Ch5hs-0001E1-EF (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Wed, 22 Dec 2004 12:35:08 +0000 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.184.225] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] you lazy bastards Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 22 12:36:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 22 Dec 2004 12:35:08 +0000 Minister of Truth, are there any unresolved proposals apart from the ones Carrie posted last week? Chief Cashier, how much money is in my BANK account? Minister of Perspicuity, have there been any important game events so far? Clerk of the Vatican, have all pending invocations of judgement been resolved? EE From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Dec 24 02:39:23 2004 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ChfMR-0008Ta-00 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 02:39:23 +0000 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166]:2709 helo=home.stuartmoore.org.uk) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp id 1ChfMN-0001hP-Er (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Fri, 24 Dec 2004 02:39:19 +0000 Received: from [10.0.0.125] (helo=[10.0.0.125]) by home.stuartmoore.org.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ChfMM-00028c-Fo for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 02:39:18 +0000 Message-ID: <41CB8163.4000800@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] you lazy bastards References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 10.0.0.125 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: stjm2@cam.ac.uk X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on home.stuartmoore.org.uk); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.05, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.05) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Dec 24 02:40:02 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 02:39:31 +0000 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > Minister of Truth, are there any unresolved proposals apart from the > ones Carrie posted last week? > > Chief Cashier, how much money is in my BANK account? I've put up a script at http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~stjm2/money.pl which will give the entire income from rule 20. Currently that stands at 84C. No one has spent any money yet, except for possibly me, depending on what people make of http://www.srcf.ucam.org/pipermail/nomic-talk/2004-October/000432.html Anyone got any opinions on that? > > Minister of Perspicuity, have there been any important game events so far? > > Clerk of the Vatican, have all pending invocations of judgement been > resolved? > > EE > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Fri Dec 24 15:04:26 2004 Received: from ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.135]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ChqzS-0005IG-00 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:04:26 +0000 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:52292) by ppsw-5.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.155]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:amgb2) id 1ChqzQ-0006V7-Hr (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:04:24 +0000 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local (PRAYER:amgb2) id 1ChqzQ-0007oa-GA (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:04:24 +0000 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] you lazy bastards X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.157.96] In-Reply-To: <41CB8163.4000800@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <41CB8163.4000800@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Dec 24 15:05:01 2004 X-Original-Date: 24 Dec 2004 15:04:24 +0000 On Dec 24 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > No one has spent any money yet, except for possibly me, depending on > what people make of > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/pipermail/nomic-talk/2004-October/000432.html > > Anyone got any opinions on that? I was under the impression that that declaration was made before the rule allowing you to move was passed, and so couldn't be valid. N'est-ce pas? EE From j_jwilks@hotmail.com Fri Dec 24 18:10:15 2004 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ChttH-0005i1-00 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 18:10:15 +0000 Received: from bay104-f16.bay104.hotmail.com ([65.54.175.26]:10116 helo=hotmail.com) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.146]:25) with esmtp id 1ChttD-0005EI-KA (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Fri, 24 Dec 2004 18:10:11 +0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:10:03 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 80.3.0.40 by by104fd.bay104.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 18:09:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.0.40] X-Originating-Email: [j_jwilks@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j_jwilks@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: From: "John-Joseph Wilks" To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Bcc: Subject: Re: [Nomic] you lazy bastards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Dec 2004 18:10:03.0520 (UTC) FILETIME=[CA5DA800:01C4E9E3] X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER 0.00) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Dec 24 18:11:01 2004 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 18:09:20 +0000 >On Dec 24 2004, Stuart Moore wrote: > >>No one has spent any money yet, except for possibly me, depending on what >>people make of >>http://www.srcf.ucam.org/pipermail/nomic-talk/2004-October/000432.html >> >>Anyone got any opinions on that? > >I was under the impression that that declaration was made before the rule >allowing you to move was passed, and so couldn't be valid. N'est-ce pas? > >EE I thought the rule had been passed, but the Grid itself for him to move on didn't actually exist. JJ From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Sat Jan 01 17:06:26 2005 Received: from ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.136]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Ckmhu-0006vd-00 for ; Sat, 01 Jan 2005 17:06:26 +0000 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:59712) by ppsw-6.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.156]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:amgb2) id 1Ckmhq-0001jg-Kc (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Sat, 01 Jan 2005 17:06:22 +0000 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local (PRAYER:amgb2) id 1Ckmhq-0004jA-Bt (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Sat, 01 Jan 2005 17:06:22 +0000 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.194.253] Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Subject: [Nomic] invocation of judgement Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Jan 1 17:07:01 2005 X-Original-Date: 01 Jan 2005 17:06:22 +0000 On November 19th at 23:21 I created a rule stating that if activity on the Nomic email list ceased for a period of one continuous week, the game would end. Stuart Moore swiftly set up a cron job which emailed the list every three days to prevent this from happening; since the purpose of the rule was to ensure that the game didn't drag on forever with nothing happening, I felt no guilt at (ab)using my moderator privileges to block it. However, I've just noticed that the rule in question was never added to the rules page on the website, and on December 22nd I issued a Notice of Consensus for a rule stating that the 'perception of the state of the game which is commonly held by all players' could not be affected by events which happened more than two weeks previously. There have been no posts since December 24th, so I would like to invoke the Judgement of the Pope on resolving the following claim: The game is over, and Adam Biltcliffe has won. In justification, I point out that, if the Rule of Endings exists, I have clearly won the game, since the criteria given in that rule have been fulfilled. The only circumstance in which the Rule of Endings does not exist would be if the rule 'Sanity Check' prevented it from existing, which would be the case if no-one thought it did. While it hasn't been on the website, I certainly remembered that it existed; I infer that Stumo did as well, from the fact that he didn't cancel his cron job, and when I've mentioned it in passing to other players they seem to have also been aware of it. I'm not aware of anything saying that the website has any authority in defining the rules, so I believe that the website is incorrect, the Rule of Endings exists, the game has ended and I am the winner. EE From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Sun Jan 02 15:37:18 2005 Received: from ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.133]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Cl7nC-0001d6-00 for ; Sun, 02 Jan 2005 15:37:18 +0000 Received: from 82-68-48-166.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.68.48.166]:3412 helo=home.stuartmoore.org.uk) by ppsw-3.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.143]:25) with esmtp id 1Cl7n9-000657-Ak (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Sun, 02 Jan 2005 15:37:15 +0000 Received: from dragon.stuartmoore.org.uk ([10.0.0.125]) by home.stuartmoore.org.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Cl7n8-0001MV-GU for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2005 15:37:14 +0000 Message-ID: <41D8152B.4060409@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] invocation of judgement References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 10.0.0.125 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: stjm2@cam.ac.uk X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on home.stuartmoore.org.uk); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.05, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.05) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Jan 2 15:38:01 2005 X-Original-Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 15:37:15 +0000 If the game has ended already then there is no longer a judgement procedure. Thus by invoking a judgement procedure you are suggesting you believe the game to already exist. Or something. On the other hand, it seems everyone is bored. Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On November 19th at 23:21 I created a rule stating that if activity on > the Nomic email list ceased for a period of one continuous week, the > game would end. Stuart Moore swiftly set up a cron job which emailed the > list every three days to prevent this from happening; since the purpose > of the rule was to ensure that the game didn't drag on forever with > nothing happening, I felt no guilt at (ab)using my moderator privileges > to block it. > > However, I've just noticed that the rule in question was never added to > the rules page on the website, and on December 22nd I issued a Notice of > Consensus for a rule stating that the 'perception of the state of the > game which is commonly held by all players' could not be affected by > events which happened more than two weeks previously. > > There have been no posts since December 24th, so I would like to invoke > the Judgement of the Pope on resolving the following claim: > > The game is over, and Adam Biltcliffe has won. > > In justification, I point out that, if the Rule of Endings exists, I > have clearly won the game, since the criteria given in that rule have > been fulfilled. The only circumstance in which the Rule of Endings does > not exist would be if the rule 'Sanity Check' prevented it from > existing, which would be the case if no-one thought it did. While it > hasn't been on the website, I certainly remembered that it existed; I > infer that Stumo did as well, from the fact that he didn't cancel his > cron job, and when I've mentioned it in passing to other players they > seem to have also been aware of it. I'm not aware of anything saying > that the website has any authority in defining the rules, so I believe > that the website is incorrect, the Rule of Endings exists, the game has > ended and I am the winner. > > EE > > _______________________________________________ > Nomic-talk mailing list > Nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org > http://www.srcf.ucam.org/mailman/listinfo/nomic-talk From amgb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Mon Jan 03 14:35:01 2005 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ClTIT-0001C7-00 for ; Mon, 03 Jan 2005 14:35:01 +0000 Received: from hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.51]:46685) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.150]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:amgb2) id 1ClTIR-0000Pa-0w (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Mon, 03 Jan 2005 14:34:59 +0000 Received: from prayer by hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local (PRAYER:amgb2) id 1ClTIR-0003uB-8N (Exim 4.43) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Mon, 03 Jan 2005 14:34:59 +0000 From: Adam Biltcliffe To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] invocation of judgement X-Mailer: Prayer v1.0.11 X-Originating-IP: [217.135.178.139] In-Reply-To: <41D8152B.4060409@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <41D8152B.4060409@cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Jan 3 14:36:02 2005 X-Original-Date: 03 Jan 2005 14:34:59 +0000 On Jan 2 2005, Stuart Moore wrote: > If the game has ended already then there is no longer a judgement > procedure. I do not see anything in the rules which states that the rules cease to apply when the game ends, so I believe this statement to be false. > Thus by invoking a judgement procedure you are suggesting you > believe the game to already exist. Or something. Yeah, it exists, it's finished and I won it. Is that contradictory? EE From mikec@mxtelecom.com Tue Jan 04 11:54:48 2005 Received: from ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.130]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ClnGy-00073q-00 for ; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 11:54:48 +0000 Received: from chinook.mxtelecom.com ([82.110.36.82]:54666) by ppsw-0.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.140]:25) with esmtp id 1ClnGp-00031n-28 (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Tue, 04 Jan 2005 11:54:39 +0000 Received: from hostess.mxtelecom.com ([192.168.2.116] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by chinook.mxtelecom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1ClnGk-0007Jj-3B for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 11:54:34 +0000 Message-ID: <41DA83F6.2020306@mxtelecom.com> From: Mike Cripps User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] invocation of judgement References: <41D8152B.4060409@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Jan 4 11:55:01 2005 X-Original-Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 11:54:30 +0000 Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > On Jan 2 2005, Stuart Moore wrote: > >> If the game has ended already then there is no longer a judgement >> procedure. > > > I do not see anything in the rules which states that the rules cease to > apply when the game ends, so I believe this statement to be false. > >> Thus by invoking a judgement procedure you are suggesting you believe >> the game to already exist. Or something. > > > Yeah, it exists, it's finished and I won it. Is that contradictory? > > EE What if the Pope refuses to pass judgement? Is such a mechanism mentioned in the rules? (for those of us too lazy to look things up for ourselves [and at work...]) Happy New Year Mike From happycarrie@gmail.com Fri Jan 07 15:06:19 2005 Received: from ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.134]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Cmvgx-0004Cr-00 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:06:19 +0000 Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.192]:41033) by ppsw-4.csi.cam.ac.uk (mx.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.144]:25) with esmtp id 1Cmvgq-0002vG-Cv (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:06:12 +0000 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 40so619742rnz for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2005 07:06:09 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=nPe9LjiuVwAT7zQiyD6E/2jo6xkabE2nP83NW8OPuoDUyxlzbSoETFzJgYmgKlpmRHgrEJhaw9XODhrUa9WaVkyifhlomeoXnOIpXoqmU+54qgBWXc4oKhmgNW9UQ3XAt5oueslOwgoHvprQgTJFho7Yh8CqE8JoOH4rvdf9Smw= Received: by 10.38.8.38 with SMTP id 38mr127948rnh; Fri, 07 Jan 2005 07:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.8.47 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Jan 2005 07:06:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: From: Carrie Oliver To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] invocation of judgement In-Reply-To: <41DA83F6.2020306@mxtelecom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <41D8152B.4060409@cam.ac.uk> <41DA83F6.2020306@mxtelecom.com> X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: scanned, SpamAssassin (score=0.024, RCVD_BY_IP 0.02) Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Reply-To: Carrie Oliver List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Jan 7 15:07:02 2005 X-Original-Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:06:09 +0000 Well I guess we should just hand to game to adam then. Seeing as everyone has got bored. Shame I was just getting the hang of it and I have been working pirates into it. Carrie From stjm2@cam.ac.uk Fri Jan 07 15:11:42 2005 Received: from ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.138]) by kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CmvmA-0004OU-00 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:11:42 +0000 Received: from pc122.hughes.private.cam.ac.uk ([172.29.124.217]:2195) by ppsw-8.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:25) with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) id 1Cmvm7-0002oN-RG (Exim 4.44) for nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org (return-path ); Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:11:39 +0000 Message-ID: <41DEA6B6.4000007@cam.ac.uk> From: Stuart Moore User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org Subject: Re: [Nomic] invocation of judgement References: <41D8152B.4060409@cam.ac.uk> <41DA83F6.2020306@mxtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned Sender: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org Errors-To: nomic-talk-admin@srcf.ucam.org X-BeenThere: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-talk@srcf.ucam.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: An email list for the nomic game List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Jan 7 15:12:01 2005 X-Original-Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:11:50 +0000 Carrie Oliver wrote: > Well I guess we should just hand to game to adam then. Seeing as > everyone has got bored. Shame I was just getting the hang of it and I > have been working pirates into it. Fair enough. I admit defeat. I just lost the game.